Romans 9 and Reformed Error

[Reformed1689]

Then you are NOT a true Calvinist or really reformed

Really? Because every Calvinist I know believes the same thing.

 

[Iconoclast]

Of course it does not say that.
Were you in Christ before the foundation of the world? Fair question. Yes or no?

I was

 

[Reformed1689]

That is no true about the Roman Catholic nuns for example

Do you know that for certain?

 

[Yeshua1]

Why do you think we are in Christ from before the foundation of the world? Meaning saved before the foundation of the world? Who here has argued that?

Sounds like he has been interacting with some Hyper Calvinist!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Really? Because every Calvinist I know believes the same thing.

I suggest you study what Calvinism really teaches on free will

 

[Yeshua1]

Nothing whatsoever to do with Pharaoh, all the unsaved

Specific to the Pharaoh though!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do you know that for certain?

First hand

 

[SavedByGrace]

Specific to the Pharaoh though!

Show from the verse

 

[Yeshua1]

Really? Because every Calvinist I know believes the same thing.

What is he referring here to then?

 

[SavedByGrace]

What is he referring here to then?

Free will

 

[Reformed1689]

I suggest you study what Calvinism really teaches on free will

Well we have already established you do not know what the Reformed camp teaches/believes so I don't think you are really in a position to tell me I don't know what we believe.

 

[Yeshua1]

I firmly believe in free will. They just define free will differently than what is reality.

I Believe in free will same way Martin Luther did....

 

[Reformed1689]

Free will

Again, every Calvinist I know affirms free will. What we do not affirm is that anyone's will desires God without a change. Romans 3.

 

[Yeshua1]

In other words, they do not desire God. They desire their sin.

Yes, God is permitting them to get the desires of their hearts.

 

[Reformed1689]

First hand

Yeah that doesn't mean much.

 

[AustinC]

Listen, Jacob and Esau had nothing to do with salvation in the scriptures. That is not debatable, and some Calvinist authors grant that.
That being said, some non-Cals go to the extreme of saying that nothing in Romans 9 is about salvation.
That's also wrong.

Paul simply uses the principle of God's choice apart from works, unto service and blessing for Esau and Jacob, and argues that God can likewise choose people unto salvation based on their faith not their works.

By the way, note that God's choice for Jacob was made in the womb, not eternity past.

You are correct that no human has anything to do with salvation. We cannot save ourselves and we do not assist God in our salvation. Salvation is 100% of God and by His authorization. Paul is clear about this in the 8th chapter of Romans and he continues this thought in Romans 9.

Is there a reason why you think God loves on a timeline like humans?

 

[SavedByGrace]

I Believe in free will same way Martin Luther did....

So you are not a Calvinist

 

[SavedByGrace]

Again, every Calvinist I know affirms free will. What we do not affirm is that anyone's will desires God without a change. Romans 3.

Read the confession of 1689

 

[Yeshua1]

In other words, they do not desire God. They desire their sin.

We just do not affirm full free will as our non cals brethren do!

 

[Salty]

six hour warning

This thread will be closed closed NLT 1130 PM EST / 830 pm PST