Romans 9 and Reformed Error

[George Antonios]

It does not say we are in Christ before salvation and I did not say that either. This is a strawman argument.

Of course it does not say that.
Were you in Christ before the foundation of the world? Fair question. Yes or no?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Refers to Pharaoh of the exodus, correct?

Nothing whatsoever to do with Pharaoh, all the unsaved

 

[Reformed1689]

You're partially right. In context, it's a reference to hardened Israel. However, there is also:

Isa 30:33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.

Etc.



Not eternity past, just beforehand.

I have no idea what you are trying to point out here.

 

[Reformed1689]

Of course it does not say that.
Were you in Christ before the foundation of the world? Fair question. Yes or no?

Chosen in Christ? Yes. In Christ? No.

 

[Yeshua1]

It's not circular reasoning. The only way you "knock us out" is if you ignore other Scriptures.

Those who are against the sovereignty of God seem to want to keep intact at all costs "free will" of lost sinners!

 

[Reformed1689]

Those who are against the sovereignty of God seem to want to keep intact at all costs "free will" of lost sinners!

I firmly believe in free will. They just define free will differently than what is reality.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Those who are against the sovereignty of God seem to want to keep intact at all costs "free will" of lost sinners!

Man you are arguing such nonsense

 

[SavedByGrace]

I firmly believe in free will. They just define free will differently than what is reality.

 

[George Antonios]

Chosen in Christ? Yes. In Christ? No.

You were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world while not being in Christ from the foundation of the world?

I sense the classic appeal to the "it's a mystery" argument coming down the lane.

 

[Reformed1689]

Which do you find funny? That me, a Calvinist, believes in free will? Or that I think your definition of free will is different from reality?

 

[Reformed1689]

You were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world while not being in Christ from the foundation of the world?

I sense the classic appeal to the "it's a mystery" argument coming down the lane.

Why do you think we are in Christ from before the foundation of the world? Meaning saved before the foundation of the world? Who here has argued that?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Which do you find funny? That me, a Calvinist, believes in free will? Or that I think your definition of free will is different from reality?

A Calvinist cannot believe in free will for any unsaved person. Show otherwise

 

[Yeshua1]

Chosen in Christ? Yes. In Christ? No.

Al

still cannot respond to the OP!

Who does the choosing to place us into Jesus, ourselves of God the Father?

 

[Yeshua1]

A Calvinist cannot believe in free will for any unsaved person. Show otherwise

We do, its just that the free will of the lost sinner is bound and restrained by the sin nature!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Al

Who does the choosing to place us into Jesus, ourselves of God the Father?

What has that got to do with the OP

 

[Reformed1689]

A Calvinist cannot believe in free will for any unsaved person. Show otherwise

Simple. I believe every human has free will to choose what they desire.

 

[SavedByGrace]

We do, its just that the free will of the lost sinner is bound and restrained by the sin nature!

Explain

 

[Reformed1689]

We do, its just that the free will of the lost sinner is bound and restrained by the sin nature!

In other words, they do not desire God. They desire their sin.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Simple. I believe every human has free will to choose what they desire.

Then you are NOT a true Calvinist or really reformed

 

[SavedByGrace]

In other words, they do not desire God. They desire their sin.

That is no true about the Roman Catholic nuns for example