Romans has nothing to do with personal salvation

[MB]

If you read thru Romans without jumping around, you find that Paul is talking about God's switch from Israel as his chosen vessel to the Church. He specifically tells us why the gentiles are lost in Romans 2. Then he goes on to tell us why the Jews are lost. Then he tells us how God has the right to chose and use any vessel (jews or gentiles) that he pleases. Then in chapter 11, he even says God can switch back and use the Jews if the Gentiles get too proud.
The whole thing has nothing to do with personal salvation. That is placing western individualism upon the text.
It is about God using his new chosen vessel, with the gentiles being those whom he forknew (pre planned or pre envisioned) to use when the time of his first vessel was completed.

You need to read all of Romans my friend. What say you about this verse if not about Salvation.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Reynolds]

I think you might want to revisit Romans 1....

And 2 and 3 and........

 

[Ran the Man]

I am referring to the main idea of Romans. That is mentioned but Romans is not about personal salvation. It is about God's justification in using the Gentiles in place of Israel for His purpose.

 

[Ran the Man]

I think you might want to revisit Romans 1....

Revisited. Looked the same as the first time I read it.

 

[Reformed1689]

I am referring to the main idea of Romans. That is mentioned but Romans is not about personal salvation. It is about God's justification in using the Gentiles in place of Israel for His purpose.

Actually, the overall theme is sin, salvation, sanctification.

 

[PastoralMusings]

Actually, the overall theme is sin, salvation, sanctification.

Or one could say it is about justification by faith and howto live as one who is justified.

 

[prophecy70]

Well, Romans 1 says they have the revelation of creation. If that's all they know, that's all they're responsible for.

Please elaborate, can they be saved then without the gospel preached to them?

 

[Ran the Man]

Please elaborate, can they be saved then without the gospel preached to them?

Of course not, but the main idea of Romans is not a salvation tract.

 

[Reformed1689]

Of course not, but the main idea of Romans is not a salvation tract.

Ok so first you argue that it is not even in Romans at all, now you are saying it just isn't the main idea. Which is it?

 

[Ran the Man]

Ok so first you argue that it is not even in Romans at all, now you are saying it just isn't the main idea. Which is it?

I said from the beginning it's not ABOUT personal salvation.
Think about this: why would Paul write an epistle telling people who were already Christians how to get saved? So they could tell their friends and print stupid tracts like the "Roman road?"
The whole book was reassuring the new Christians that leaving Judaism behind was correct, because they were now on the new vessel, the Church.

 

[Reformed1689]

I said from the beginning it's not ABOUT personal salvation.
Think about this: why would Paul write an epistle telling people who were already Christians how to get saved? So they could tell their friends and print stupid tracts like the "Roman road?"
The whole book was reassuring the new Christians that leaving Judaism behind was correct, because they were now on the new vessel, the Church.

Why would Matthew Mark Luke and John write the Gospels to people who were already saved? OF COURSE IT WAS SO THEY KNOW THE GOSPEL.

Your argument is plain ignorant.

 

[Ran the Man]

Why would Matthew Mark Luke and John write the Gospels to people who were already saved? OF COURSE IT WAS SO THEY KNOW THE GOSPEL.

Your argument is plain ignorant.

The Gospels were written at the request of the Church as a record for future generations. Before that they had only oral tradition.

 

[Ran the Man]

Why would Matthew Mark Luke and John write the Gospels to people who were already saved? OF COURSE IT WAS SO THEY KNOW THE GOSPEL.

Your argument is plain ignorant.

Its ignorant to say that people who knew the Gospel needed to know it.

 

[prophecy70]

Its ignorant to say that people who knew the Gospel needed to know it.

It seems that no one can read because looking anywhere at the Theme of Romans I keep finding the same thing.



"Paul’s primary theme in Romans is the basic gospel, God’s plan of salvation and righteousness for all humankind, Jew and Gentile alike (see 1:16–17 and notes). Although justification by faith has been suggested by some as the theme, it would seem that a broader theme states the message of the book more adequately. “Righteousness from God” (1:17) includes justification by faith, but it also embraces such related ideas as guilt, sanctification and security."

"Romans is the fort Knox of the Christians faith, written to the center of the Roman civilization, it is the doctrine of the gospel – the problem with mankind and the living hope in Christ. Paul reveals to us that salvation is about grace alone, about faith in what He has done – “the righteous shall live by faith.”

The first 3 chapters show us how all people are condemned in front of God, all have fallen short of the glory of God and are thus abiding in God’s wrath under condemnation. Sin is universal and has effected all men, for death is a backpack which everyone is wearing and we will all have too go through.

Death was the one thing that Christ went through that would relate to everyman, in every culture for all are condemned to death being children of Adam. Christ died for our sin and will impute His righteousness to us, if we desire to “walk by faith” in the Son of God. When Christ imputes righteousness to us we are justified immediately, all sin is forgiven, we are now bought with a price , disciples of Christ who will follow Him where He leads us. The places He leads us are to change us, it’s not about the places He takes us but about the character formed in us. It is not what we do but what we are. This process is known as sanctification and shown in chapters 6-8. Chapter 6 shows the completeness of the work of Christ, that we have died with Him, that we are a new creation. Chapter 7 shows a Christians appropriating this with the law and failing drastically. Chapter 8 is appropriating this with the spirit, the new law of life, the freedom that we have in Christ in the power of the person of the holy spirit."


The global message of Romans is that all people everywhere have free access to the riches of God’s grace in Christ as they respond in faith to the gospel. In his own Son, God has made a way for lost people to be restored to him—lost people whether they are Greeks or barbarians, wise or foolish (Rom. 1:14).

Romans and Redemptive History
The letter to the Romans itself recounts much of global redemptive history. Paul moves from the problem of sin (Romans 1–3) to the solution provided in Christ (chs. 3–8) to how that solution applies in a practical way among God’s people (chs. 9–16).


The Global Message of Romans | ESV.orgthe-theme-of-romans
Romans Major Themes

 

[prophecy70]

Yes that's the one part of Calvinism I agree with. Where I disagree is that God doesn't knock on the door of every heart. I believe He does.

You never answered, How does he knock on the hearts that die never hearing the gospel?

 

[Ran the Man]

It seems that no one can read because looking anywhere at the Theme of Romans I keep finding the same thing.



"Paul’s primary theme in Romans is the basic gospel, God’s plan of salvation and righteousness for all humankind, Jew and Gentile alike (see 1:16–17 and notes). Although justification by faith has been suggested by some as the theme, it would seem that a broader theme states the message of the book more adequately. “Righteousness from God” (1:17) includes justification by faith, but it also embraces such related ideas as guilt, sanctification and security."

"Romans is the fort Knox of the Christians faith, written to the center of the Roman civilization, it is the doctrine of the gospel – the problem with mankind and the living hope in Christ. Paul reveals to us that salvation is about grace alone, about faith in what He has done – “the righteous shall live by faith.”

The first 3 chapters show us how all people are condemned in front of God, all have fallen short of the glory of God and are thus abiding in God’s wrath under condemnation. Sin is universal and has effected all men, for death is a backpack which everyone is wearing and we will all have too go through.

Death was the one thing that Christ went through that would relate to everyman, in every culture for all are condemned to death being children of Adam. Christ died for our sin and will impute His righteousness to us, if we desire to “walk by faith” in the Son of God. When Christ imputes righteousness to us we are justified immediately, all sin is forgiven, we are now bought with a price , disciples of Christ who will follow Him where He leads us. The places He leads us are to change us, it’s not about the places He takes us but about the character formed in us. It is not what we do but what we are. This process is known as sanctification and shown in chapters 6-8. Chapter 6 shows the completeness of the work of Christ, that we have died with Him, that we are a new creation. Chapter 7 shows a Christians appropriating this with the law and failing drastically. Chapter 8 is appropriating this with the spirit, the new law of life, the freedom that we have in Christ in the power of the person of the holy spirit."


The global message of Romans is that all people everywhere have free access to the riches of God’s grace in Christ as they respond in faith to the gospel. In his own Son, God has made a way for lost people to be restored to him—lost people whether they are Greeks or barbarians, wise or foolish (Rom. 1:14).

Romans and Redemptive History
The letter to the Romans itself recounts much of global redemptive history. Paul moves from the problem of sin (Romans 1–3) to the solution provided in Christ (chs. 3–8) to how that solution applies in a practical way among God’s people (chs. 9–16).


The Global Message of Romans | ESV.orgthe-theme-of-romans
Romans Major Themes

nope.

 

[Ran the Man]

You never answered, How does he knock on the hearts that die never hearing the gospel?

preaching .

 

[Ran the Man]

look at it this way:
Is there any member of your family that you wouldn't want to be saved? Would you deliberately withold your Christian witness from any member of your family?
If you answered no, then why would God be any different?
If we being evil, would not do such a thing, why would God, who is truly good?

 

[PastoralMusings]

I said from the beginning it's not ABOUT personal salvation.
Think about this: why would Paul write an epistle telling people who were already Christians how to get saved? So they could tell their friends and print stupid tracts like the "Roman road?"
The whole book was reassuring the new Christians that leaving Judaism behind was correct, because they were now on the new vessel, the Church.

Actually the book served the purpose of showing the truth of justification by faith and how to live in light of that. Yes, Christians need the gospel.
We’ll always need the gospel. Eph 2:7 shows us that the gospel endures forever, as God pours out grace on us forever. Likewise the song of the redeemedin Rev 5 is pure gospel.
There is no Christian life apart from the gospel. That is why Galatians was given: to remind Christians of the truth of the gospel that they might live to God’s glory.
No, Romans is no tract telling folks how to be saved; but it was a letter telling them how they had been saved, and what that meant for them/us from here on.
And, yes, the Romans would learn from the letter how to tell their friends of the gospel. That is part of the church’s commission, and Romans would help with that.

 

[Revmitchell]

Your argument is plain ignorant.

That statement looks rather trollish to me