Maybe you need to read Romans ch 1. No really iys good you should read it.
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Romans has nothing to do with personal salvation
- Thread starter Ran the Man
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Maybe you need to read Romans ch 1. No really iys good you should read it.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Are you kidding me right now? Only if you take it out of context of the whole post. Good grief.
No one is kidding you and it was unnecessarily rude
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
So was yours. But I stand by my comment. It was not rude.
Yea it is
Ran the Man
Active Member
That's very basic Baptist teaching. Unfortunately, it's incorrect.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Which parts?
PastoralMusings
Active Member
I challenge you to prove your assertion point by point.
PastoralMusings
Active Member
A Very Brief Overview Of The Book Of Romans
Romans 1- The chapter shows us that justification is by faith, and that all need it, because all have chosen to not give God glory, but have turned their worship elsewhere.
Romans 2-The chapter shows us that Jews also need justification by faith, because they do not keep the law that they were given. Paul shows that the true Jews are those who have been changed on the inside by the grace of God.
Romans 3-The apostle continues and shows that all of us are under sin, have fallen short of God’s glory; yet God told us by the prophets that HE would give us a righteousness not our own, but of Himself in Christ. Jesus died that we might be justified. This is not by our works, so we cannot boast. This shows the abiding authority of the moral law of God.
Romans 4-Abraham was justified by faith and not by works, as was David. Jesus died and rose that we, too, would be justified by faith.
Romans 5-We are justified by faith, have peace with God, and have hope because of the love of God in Christ that satisfied God’s wrath. In Adam we die, in Christ we live. This is all of grace.
Romans 6- Being justified, we are dead to sin and alive to God. We should thus live as such.
Romans 7-Those justified are not under the law, but died to the covenant of the law and are now alive to God. The flesh cannot keep the law. Thus the cry, “Who shall deliver me…?”
Romans 8-answers the question at the end of chapter seven. God will deliver us. Jesus died for us, condemned sin in the flesh, rose, ascended to the Father’s right hand, intercedes for us, and is working all things for the good of His called so that God’s glorious purpose would be realized in us at the resurrection. Nothing can separate us from the justifying and glorifying love of God in Christ.
Romans 9- The chapter continues to show that it is not by the law nor by one’s genealogy that he is right with God. To be among God’s chosen is to be justified by faith.
Romans 10-Paul again explains that one needs only believe the Lord Jesus to be saved; but one needs to hear, and there needs to be one sent to preach that they might hear and believe.
Romans 11-Did God forever cast off Israel? No, the Redeemer shall return and cleanse/justify many among them. Gentiles need to be humble, as we have our standing by faith: we need not boast, because we have no goodness that makes us what we are.
Romans 12-16Being justified by faith, how should we now live? We should live as members one of another, denying self and following Christ, walking in love and not feeding the flesh. We should accept one another, as God has accepted us in CHrsit by faith. We should support the spread of the gospel (Paul intends to go to Spain and desires the Romans to help him on his way. “How shall they preach except they be sent?”) We should stand for the gospel and separate from those who cause divisions contrary to it.
Romans 16:20 It won’t be long and the promised seed, the King of kings, Jesus Christ, will consummate His work and eternally subjugate and punish the devil. Only through Christ do we have the victory.
There are other points to be seen in Romans, but one cannot escape justification by faith and its implications for our lives and our eternity. Why would one desire to escape that? It's beyond me.
Rantheman, if you will, I'd welcome your overview of Romans that seeks to establish your point.
Romans 1- The chapter shows us that justification is by faith, and that all need it, because all have chosen to not give God glory, but have turned their worship elsewhere.
Romans 2-The chapter shows us that Jews also need justification by faith, because they do not keep the law that they were given. Paul shows that the true Jews are those who have been changed on the inside by the grace of God.
Romans 3-The apostle continues and shows that all of us are under sin, have fallen short of God’s glory; yet God told us by the prophets that HE would give us a righteousness not our own, but of Himself in Christ. Jesus died that we might be justified. This is not by our works, so we cannot boast. This shows the abiding authority of the moral law of God.
Romans 4-Abraham was justified by faith and not by works, as was David. Jesus died and rose that we, too, would be justified by faith.
Romans 5-We are justified by faith, have peace with God, and have hope because of the love of God in Christ that satisfied God’s wrath. In Adam we die, in Christ we live. This is all of grace.
Romans 6- Being justified, we are dead to sin and alive to God. We should thus live as such.
Romans 7-Those justified are not under the law, but died to the covenant of the law and are now alive to God. The flesh cannot keep the law. Thus the cry, “Who shall deliver me…?”
Romans 8-answers the question at the end of chapter seven. God will deliver us. Jesus died for us, condemned sin in the flesh, rose, ascended to the Father’s right hand, intercedes for us, and is working all things for the good of His called so that God’s glorious purpose would be realized in us at the resurrection. Nothing can separate us from the justifying and glorifying love of God in Christ.
Romans 9- The chapter continues to show that it is not by the law nor by one’s genealogy that he is right with God. To be among God’s chosen is to be justified by faith.
Romans 10-Paul again explains that one needs only believe the Lord Jesus to be saved; but one needs to hear, and there needs to be one sent to preach that they might hear and believe.
Romans 11-Did God forever cast off Israel? No, the Redeemer shall return and cleanse/justify many among them. Gentiles need to be humble, as we have our standing by faith: we need not boast, because we have no goodness that makes us what we are.
Romans 12-16Being justified by faith, how should we now live? We should live as members one of another, denying self and following Christ, walking in love and not feeding the flesh. We should accept one another, as God has accepted us in CHrsit by faith. We should support the spread of the gospel (Paul intends to go to Spain and desires the Romans to help him on his way. “How shall they preach except they be sent?”) We should stand for the gospel and separate from those who cause divisions contrary to it.
Romans 16:20 It won’t be long and the promised seed, the King of kings, Jesus Christ, will consummate His work and eternally subjugate and punish the devil. Only through Christ do we have the victory.
There are other points to be seen in Romans, but one cannot escape justification by faith and its implications for our lives and our eternity. Why would one desire to escape that? It's beyond me.
Rantheman, if you will, I'd welcome your overview of Romans that seeks to establish your point.
prophecy70
Active Member
You said everyone hearts, what about people that no one preached too, and then died.
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prophecy70
Active Member
Nah, it was not rude.
prophecy70
Active Member
You always seem to step in and make the conversation so much more productive.
Ran the Man
Active Member
They are responsible only for what God revealed thru his general revelation mentioned in Romans 1.
Ran the Man
Active Member
Actually I was planning to post an outline of my overview. Thanks for the invitation because that makes me feel more welcome to do so.
I have a concert coming up on 3/16 that I need to prepare for. After that I can write out my outline for all of you. Please wait. Thanks brother.
Ran the Man
Active Member
I went thru your outline. I like it. It's very un-Calvinist. If you taught it in Sunday school like this I'd have no objection.
Where I disagree with Calvinists is when they try to say that 9 is about individuals when it's clearly talking about God using which ever vessel he chooses, Gentiles or Israel, for His plan to save the world.
Where I disagree with Calvinists is when they try to say that 9 is about individuals when it's clearly talking about God using which ever vessel he chooses, Gentiles or Israel, for His plan to save the world.
PastoralMusings
Active Member
I appreciate much Calvinists have contributed to the exposition of Scripture, but I do occasionally find myself disagreeing as in the case of chapter 9.
prophecy70
Active Member
It says they are responsible for ONLY what God revealed? So can they be saved without a human agent preaching the gospel?
prophecy70
Active Member
Can you exegete verse by verse Romans 9, Use what Grandma taught you. ( I laughed all day at that) that was funny!
Ran the Man
Active Member
I'm trying to get everybody to see the forest not the trees, but I think I can hit the big trees in each chapter. That will give you the main ideas I'm getting.Can you exegete verse by verse Romans 9, Use what Grandma taught you. ( I laughed all day at that) that was funny!
Yeah grandma was funny. She loved church and I remember either getting to Sunday school or getting a butt whipping. And I still go to church today.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
It's talking about individuals:
" Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." ( Romans 9:6-8 )
The children of the flesh, and the children of God.
It started out in chapter 1 addressed to the believers at Rome ( Romans 1:7 ), continues on ( the last half of chapter 1 through the first half of chapter 3 deals with all men ) until it hits chapter 8 speaking mostly of believers ( Romans 8:1, Romans 8:9, Romans 8:28-39 ) and after chapter 9 goes through Romans 10, again, speaking to and about believers ( Romans 10:1, Romans 10:8-13 ), not unbelievers.
Romans 9 also addresses vessels of wrath ( unbelievers ) and vessels of mercy ( believers ) for greater detail, touching on several of the differences between the children of God and the children of the flesh / devil.
Here's another defining detail which throws out the idea of who is being spoken about as being nations or groups, but individuals:
" even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." ( Romans 9:24-26 )
There it is...the children of the living God.
That is the subject of Romans chapter 9.
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