Romans has nothing to do with personal salvation

[Ran the Man]

The

It's talking about individuals:

" Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." ( Romans 9:6-8 )

The children of the flesh, and the children of God.

It started out in chapter 1 addressed to the believers at Rome ( Romans 1:7 ), continues on ( the last half of chapter 1 through the first half of chapter 3 deals with all men ) until it hits chapter 8 speaking mostly of believers ( Romans 8:1, Romans 8:9, Romans 8:28-39 ) and after chapter 9 goes through Romans 10, again, speaking to and about believers ( Romans 10:1, Romans 10:8-13 ), not unbelievers.

Romans 9 also addresses vessels of wrath ( unbelievers ) and vessels of mercy ( believers ) for greater detail, touching on several of the differences between the children of God and the children of the flesh / devil.

Here's another defining detail which throws out the idea of who is being spoken about as being nations or groups, but individuals:

" even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." ( Romans 9:24-26 )

There it is...the children of the living God.
That is the subject of Romans chapter 9.

Yes we are saved by faith. But anyone can join. That's the whole point of Romans, that God is free to use the Gentiles, as its all by faith anyway. The vessels he talks about are those two nations. Jacob and esau are two nations also.....unless you're in a denomination that needs to fill lots of pews. Then it suddenly becomes " better get saved or you might not be one of the elect" etc.

 

[Dave G]

Yes we are saved by faith. But anyone can join

From man's perspective, anyone can believe when the Gospel is presented to them.
From God's perspective, only His elect will believe, while the rest will be blinded ( John 10:26, Romans 11:7-8, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).

That's the whole point of Romans, that God is free to use the Gentiles, as its all by faith anyway.

That's part of the point of Romans, specifically parts of 8, 9, 10 and 11.
The Gentiles have been grafted in...but they are still elect and chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).

The vessels he talks about are those two nations.

The vessels He talks about are individuals...see Scripture defining who "vessels" are here:

" Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." ( 1 Peter 3:7 )

Jacob and esau are two nations also.....unless you're in a denomination that needs to fill lots of pews.

They were men whose descendants grew into two tribes, or "nations".
One was Israel, one was Edom.
God loved one man, Jacob, and blessed his heritage temporally for the sake of His love for Jacob.
God hated the other man, and cursed his heritage ( Psalms 108:9, Psalms 60:8, Malachi 1:1-4 ).

Abraham was an individual, whose sons grew into several tribes, or "nations".
One was Israel, one was the Arabs, or "Ishmaelites"...the others I don't know about because Scripture really doesn't speak of them, from what I see.

As for filling pews, the largest "Christian" denomination that successfully fills pews the world over, preaches that sinful, rebellious man's own, "powerful" will determines his destiny.
You may have heard of it:

The Roman Catholic Church.

Then it suddenly becomes " better get saved or you might not be one of the elect" etc.

Yes, I'm keenly aware of what is preached out there in most "churches"...
"You better do this to gain God's favor, or you're not one of the elect".

It's called a false gospel that bases salvation on the works and efforts of men, and not the gifts and grace of God.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

As Ran is now banned for denial of the inspiration of the Bible, so this thread is closed.