Russ Moore

[Baptist Believer]

Just based that upon your responses made concerning how you loath trump!

Have you ever heard of "loving your enemies?" I find most of the things that Trump does as loathsome, but that doesn't mean I loathe Trump. You cannot hate people you pray for.

Frankly, I pray for people who have set themselves as my enemies more than I pray for my friends. Usually, my "enemies" need it more.

So your antichristian accusations that I "loathe" Trump or pray for hateful things to happen to Trump should embarrass you.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The same Muslim ban so called that the SC later upheld?

Go back and read what I wrote. I specifically wrote: "(the first version of the travel restriction)." The Trump Administration didn't dare take that one before the Supreme Court. They began rewriting it and went through various versions before one eventually went to the Supreme Court. The version that went before the Supreme Court did not specifically restrict Muslims.

You need to pay attention.

 

[Baptist Believer]

His take on real Christianity seems to me into Social Gospel...

No, it is basic Christianity. What the SBC has embraced is its 19th century version of Christianity -- a slaveholder religion that only selectively applies the principles of the gospel to the social order and instead reduces the message of the gospel to the atonement, abandoning the earth and going to "heaven" for eternity. That's a biblical distortion.

...and liberation...

The Bible has a lot to say about not oppressing others. You have to be very selective in your reading to miss it.

...then more traditional viewpoint!

Yes, 19th century slaveholder religion is now the "traditional" viewpoint. That was never biblical.

Have you ever read the Bible, cover to cover, carefully and without relying on commentators to tell you what you are supposed to embrace and what to ignore? If you do, and you believe and act on it, you will get into a lot of trouble with the mainstream of the "conservative" Christian movement.

 

[Jerome]

[Russell Moore] does see prophets given to the Church today!

Where/when did Russell Moore say such a thing?

 

[Yeshua1]

Where/when did Russell Moore say such a thing?

Russell Moore -Prophet of Shame
Russell Moore -Prophet of Shame

 

[Mikoo]

No, it is basic Christianity. What the SBC has embraced is its 19th century version of Christianity -- a slaveholder religion that only selectively applies the principles of the gospel to the social order and instead reduces the message of the gospel to the atonement, abandoning the earth and going to "heaven" for eternity. That's a biblical distortion.


The Bible has a lot to say about not oppressing others. You have to be very selective in your reading to miss it.


Yes, 19th century slaveholder religion is now the "traditional" viewpoint. That was never biblical.

Have you ever read the Bible, cover to cover, carefully and without relying on commentators to tell you what you are supposed to embrace and what to ignore? If you do, and you believe and act on it, you will get into a lot of trouble with the mainstream of the "conservative" Christian movement.

Have you ever read the Bible, cover to cover, carefully and without relying on commentators to tell you what you are supposed to embrace and what to ignore? If you do, and you believe and act on it, you will get into a lot of trouble with the mainstream of the LIBERAL Christian movement.

 

[Jerome]

[Russell Moore] does see prophets given to the Church today!

Where/when did Russell Moore say such a thing?

Russell Moore -Prophet of Shame
Russell Moore -Prophet of Shame

Absolutely nothing there about your charge that Russell Moore "does see prophets given to the church today!"
Please explain.

 

[Mikoo]

Yes, and that's counter to the biblical mandate. A Christian should not support it.


Except he made a mess of it. He enacted tariffs that the American consumers have been paying, and single-handedly destroyed the soybean market, among others.


We have had a completely free market and it enabled the rise of monopolies and trusts that Teddy Roosevelt had to break up for the sake of the American economy and consumers. We have a regulated economy that has served us well. Changing that can have huge consequences, especially when it is done at the whim of a President who doesn't even understand the basics of a modern economy.


I realize that many people believe that, but it is not necessarily true. Our government does a lot of things that private enterprise can't or won't do that creates a better quality of life, a better business environment, and stabilizes our nation. The premise that "cutting regulations" is always a good thing is particularly foolish. For instance, Clinton cut back a lot of food inspection services and capabilities in the mid-1990s and we have regularly had food recalls ever since, many of them quite serious.


He was only "pro-life" if you mean that he gave lip service to being anti-abortion. Otherwise, that statement is false.

Now I get you. A Biden supporter. Liberal Christian. Reading what you write feels like I'm watching a Jen Psaki/pelosi/shumer press conference. Same type of talking points. I will now read what you write the same way I would read the Wash Post and other biased liberal/secular newspapers. And the same way I listen carefully to CNN/ MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC and other left leaning, secular, biased news channels.

If I'm wrong then also list the things that you disagree with that Biden has done/or not done in his career and now as president.

 

[Yeshua1]

Now I get you. A Biden supporter. Liberal Christian. Reading what you write feels like I'm watching a Jen Psaki/pelosi/shumer press conference. Same type of talking points. I will now read what you write the same way I would read the Wash Post and other biased liberal/secular newspapers. And the same way I listen carefully to CNN/ MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC and other left leaning, secular, biased news channels.

If I'm wrong then also list the things that you disagree with that Biden has done/or not done in his career and now as president.

I guess have strong borders as under trump was not appreciated by him, as he likes now the massive chaos on our borders under Biden!

 

[Baptist Believer]

Have you ever read the Bible, cover to cover, carefully and without relying on commentators to tell you what you are supposed to embrace and what to ignore?

Yes, absolutely. I do need to disclose, the first time I read the Bible cover to cover, I was using a Ryrie Study BIble (NASB) and I leaned heavily on his notes until I eventually lost confidence in them during subsequent rereadings. I realized that his theology and interpretation distorted the text for the sake of promoting his dispensational viewpoints and avoided many of the implications of the teachings of Jesus, interpreting that way of living as only for the millenial kingdom.

I first read the Bible all the way through in the winter of 1984, reread it two more times, cover to cover, during the remainder of the year, and then spent some serious time going deep into the teachings of Jesus and the New Testament writers through much of 1985, reviewing their Old Testament references and allusions and how they were fulfilled in Jesus. I read the Bible through once again in early 1986, taking my developing New Testament theology back to the Old Testament and seeing how it all fit together organically. In August 1986, I began a degree in Theology, completed at the end of 1989. During that period, I read the Bible through probably two to three times (it was required for some of my classes, and we had to write reports on our reading each week in addition to our class work), as well as in=depth study of theology, church history, philosophy, epistemology, a life and teachings of Jesus course, and various survey courses of key Old and New Testament books.

After that, I went to seminary and continued a lot of the same kind of work. After seminary, I have continued biblical study, consistently teaching, reading and writing on biblical issues.

In my journey out of agnosticism, than began December 1984, to faith and into Christian maturity, I have probably read the Bible cover to cover more than a dozen times, and some books of the Bible hundreds of time.

So yes, I have done those things.

If you do, and you believe and act on it, you will get into a lot of trouble with the mainstream of the LIBERAL Christian movement.

Sure. Disciples of Jesus get in trouble with partisan religionists all the time. The religious people crucified Jesus, why should anyone expect His disciples not to get into trouble?

That's why Russ Moore has been in trouble with the SBC Trump zealots. If you read the Sermon on the Mount and compare it to Trump's persona, Trump is literally anti-christ.

Disciples of Trump are compelled to attack people who faithfully bring forth the words and teachings of Jesus, since they expose the rotting corpse of sinful humanity. Trump disciples want to convince themselves that they can call Jesus "Lord, Lord" without doing what He says to do.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Absolutely nothing there about your charge that Russell Moore "does see prophets given to the church today!"
Please explain.

Yeshua1 just makes accusations, he doesn't back them up.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Now I get you. A Biden supporter. Liberal Christian.

No, you actually don't "get" me at all. I'm not a "liberal" Christian, I'm a disciple of Jesus.

Reading what you write feels like I'm watching a Jen Psaki/pelosi/shumer press conference.

Really? What post sounds like a press conference?

Same type of talking points.

If reality happens to be a certain way and several persons of widely diverse opinions and backgrounds all describe that reality in the same way, then it is probably true. The issue is not the "talking points" but the common reality that everyone is seeing and describing.

I will now read what you write the same way I would read the Wash Post and other biased liberal/secular newspapers.

That would be a mistake, since I am pointing to Jesus. As far as I know, most newspapers (of any sort) don't point to Jesus.

And the same way I listen carefully to CNN/ MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC and other left leaning, secular, biased news channels.

And that's also a mistake, since I am pointing to Jesus. As far as I know, most television news channels (of any sort) don't point to Jesus.

If I'm wrong then also list the things that you disagree with that Biden has done/or not done in his career and now as president.

Off the top of my head, I disagree with him on:

• 2nd Amendment issues
• Abortion
• His obsessive decision-making style
• His difficulty admitting his past mistakes
• His distant history of plagiarism
• He can be a hothead, too emotionally driven
• His handling of the Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill hearings

If I gave it more thought, I could probably make a longer list.

So what's the point of your question? Have you assumed I am a partisan like so many around here? It sounds like it.

 

[Mikoo]

Yes, absolutely. I do need to disclose, the first time I read the Bible cover to cover, I was using a Ryrie Study BIble (NASB) and I leaned heavily on his notes until I eventually lost confidence in them during subsequent rereadings. I realized that his theology and interpretation distorted the text for the sake of promoting his dispensational viewpoints and avoided many of the implications of the teachings of Jesus, interpreting that way of living as only for the millenial kingdom.

I first read the Bible all the way through in the winter of 1984, reread it two more times, cover to cover, during the remainder of the year, and then spent some serious time going deep into the teachings of Jesus and the New Testament writers through much of 1985, reviewing their Old Testament references and allusions and how they were fulfilled in Jesus. I read the Bible through once again in early 1986, taking my developing New Testament theology back to the Old Testament and seeing how it all fit together organically. In August 1986, I began a degree in Theology, completed at the end of 1989. During that period, I read the Bible through probably two to three times (it was required for some of my classes, and we had to write reports on our reading each week in addition to our class work), as well as in=depth study of theology, church history, philosophy, epistemology, a life and teachings of Jesus course, and various survey courses of key Old and New Testament books.

After that, I went to seminary and continued a lot of the same kind of work. After seminary, I have continued biblical study, consistently teaching, reading and writing on biblical issues.

In my journey out of agnosticism, than began December 1984, to faith and into Christian maturity, I have probably read the Bible cover to cover more than a dozen times, and some books of the Bible hundreds of time.

So yes, I have done those things.


Sure. Disciples of Jesus get in trouble with partisan religionists all the time. The religious people crucified Jesus, why should anyone expect His disciples not to get into trouble?

That's why Russ Moore has been in trouble with the SBC Trump zealots. If you read the Sermon on the Mount and compare it to Trump's persona, Trump is literally anti-christ.

Disciples of Trump are compelled to attack people who faithfully bring forth the words and teachings of Jesus, since they expose the rotting corpse of sinful humanity. Trump disciples want to convince themselves that they can call Jesus "Lord, Lord" without doing what He says to do.

Lots of people have studied the Bible, doesn't mean one understands it. Also, doesn't mean they are a Christian. You show your true colors by your own words.

Disciples of Biden/liberals are compelled to attack people who faithfully bring forth the words and teachings of Jesus, since they expose the rotting corpse of sinful humanity. Biden/liberal disciples want to convince themselves that they can call Jesus "Lord, Lord" without doing what He says to do.

Your words betray you.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I guess have strong borders as under trump was not appreciated by him, as he likes now the massive chaos on our borders under Biden!

^^^ This is complete manure, not even worth addressing.

Yeshua1, does it make you feel like a big man to assign evil viewpoints to other people? What's your problem? Have your feelings been hurt because people have called you out?

And why won't you answer Jerome's question? He's asked you nicely and you keep giving him either silence or nonsense. Stop being a coward and deal with the accusations you have made. People will have a bit of grudging respect for you if you can admit your misspoke or remembered incorrectly.

 

[Yeshua1]

^^^ This is complete manure, not even worth addressing.

Yeshua1, does it make you feel like a big man to assign evil viewpoints to other people? What's your problem? Have your feelings been hurt because people have called you out?

And why won't you answer Jerome's question? He's asked you nicely and you keep giving him either silence or nonsense. Stop being a coward and deal with the accusations you have made. People will have a bit of grudging respect for you if you can admit your misspoke or remembered incorrectly.

What is Manure? The truth that under trump we had secured borders, but under Biden now back to wide open ones?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Lots of people have studied the Bible, doesn't mean one understands it.

That's true. Do you want to deal with the Bible in our discussion? I'm happy to do that with you if you have concerns. You can make up your own mind as to whether I understand the Bible or not. As a starting point, please explain Matthew 25:31-46 and explain how this teaching of Jesus can be interpreted in any other way than disciples of Jesus being advocates for the poor, the outsiders, the sick, or imprisoned? Show me your biblical acumen.

Also, doesn't mean they are a Christian.

That's true. But the person who consumes the Bible like bread for a hungry man is one who is likely to be on the right path.

You show your true colors by your own words.

That's also true. We are known by our fruit. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). Does that sound like Donald Trump or any of his disciples? Does it sound like many in this forum?

Disciples of Biden/liberals are compelled to attack people who faithfully bring forth the words and teachings of Jesus, since they expose the rotting corpse of sinful humanity. Biden/liberal disciples want to convince themselves that they can call Jesus "Lord, Lord" without doing what He says to do.

Yes.

Your words betray you.

I don't follow.

I'm not a disciple of Biden or liberals (and I'm not a liberal), so that statement doesn't connect.

 

[Baptist Believer]

What is Manure? The truth that under trump we had secured borders, but under Biden now back to wide open ones?

You are trying to change the subject. Why don't you answer Jerome? You made a claim against Russ Moore and you are running from it.

 

[Mikoo]

No, you actually don't "get" me at all. I'm not a "liberal" Christian, I'm a disciple of Jesus.

You words betray you.


Really? What post sounds like a press conference?

Self-explanatory


If reality happens to be a certain way and several persons of widely diverse opinions and backgrounds all describe that reality in the same way, then it is probably true. The issue is not the "talking points" but the common reality that everyone is seeing and describing.

See. You answered your own questions above.

That would be a mistake, since I am pointing to Jesus. As far as I know, most newspapers (of any sort) don't point to Jesus.

Which Jesus? The SJW Jesus (the one non believers can live with, but not as their Savior) or the Biblical Jesus?

And that's also a mistake, since I am pointing to Jesus. As far as I know, most television news channels (of any sort) don't point to Jesus.

Which Jesus? The SJW Jesus (the one non believers can live with, but not as their Savior) or the Biblical Jesus?

Off the top of my head, I disagree with him on:

• 2nd Amendment issues
• Abortion
• His obsessive decision-making style
• His difficulty admitting his past mistakes
• His distant history of plagiarism
• He can be a hothead, too emotionally driven
• His handling of the Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill hearings

If I gave it more thought, I could probably make a longer list.

So what's the point of your question? Have you assumed I am a partisan like so many around here? It sounds like it.

Great! So you didn't vote for Biden then. No way you could. He sounds as bad as you describe President Trump. Maybe I did jump to conclusions then.

 

[Mikoo]

That's true. Do you want to deal with the Bible in our discussion? I'm happy to do that with you if you have concerns. You can make up your own mind as to whether I understand the Bible or not. As a starting point, please explain Matthew 25:31-46 and explain how this teaching of Jesus can be interpreted in any other way than disciples of Jesus being advocates for the poor, the outsiders, the sick, or imprisoned? Show me your biblical acumen.

As a starting point, please explain Matthew 25:31-46



That's true. But the person who consumes the Bible like bread for a hungry man is one who is likely to be on the right path.

Maybe


That's also true. We are known by our fruit. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). Does that sound like Donald Trump or any of his disciples?
Does that sound like Joe Biden or any of his disciples?

Does it sound like many in this forum? Does that include you?


Yes. Agree


I don't follow.

I'm not a disciple of Biden or liberals (and I'm not a liberal), so that statement doesn't connect.
Good than you didn't vote for Biden. Again, maybe I was wrong about you.

 

[Baptist Believer]

You really made a mess of the formatting on your last response. I'll try to clean it up.

You words betray you.

Actually, they don't. However, I suspect you are using a definition of "liberal" that is entirely arbitrary and essentially means someone who doesn't believe just like you do.

You keep saying "Your words betray you" as if that is somehow profound or like anyone knows what you are talking about.

Really? What post sounds like a press conference?

Self-explanatory

No it's not.

If reality happens to be a certain way and several persons of widely diverse opinions and backgrounds all describe that reality in the same way, then it is probably true. The issue is not the "talking points" but the common reality that everyone is seeing and describing.

See. You answered your own questions above.

So you are living in an alternate reality with alternative facts? That's not something I would want to admit.

That would be a mistake, since I am pointing to Jesus. As far as I know, most newspapers (of any sort) don't point to Jesus.

Which Jesus? The SJW Jesus (the one non believers can live with, but not as their Savior) or the Biblical Jesus?

The biblical Jesus, the One Who is the image of the invisible God who has demanded justice from the very beginning. Haven't you read the Old Testament prophets? Their voices are echoed by Jesus and the New Testament writers. Are you familiar with the Bible, beyond what is covered in Sunday School?

And that's also a mistake, since I am pointing to Jesus. As far as I know, most television news channels (of any sort) don't point to Jesus.

Which Jesus? The SJW Jesus (the one non believers can live with, but not as their Savior) or the Biblical Jesus?

See my previous answer. By the way, did you ever notice in the Gospels (if you have read them) that the poor, outcast, and non-religious people constantly pressed in to see Jesus? He attracted them because of His character and compassion. Many people in the religious establishment constantly criticized Jesus, especially because of the riff-raff and 'undesirables' that He attracted and associated with. Non-believers were happy to live with Jesus, but they usually ended up become believers eventually. However, that still did not get them acceptance within the religious establishment.

Off the top of my head, I disagree with him on:

• 2nd Amendment issues
• Abortion
• His obsessive decision-making style
• His difficulty admitting his past mistakes
• His distant history of plagiarism
• He can be a hothead, too emotionally driven
• His handling of the Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill hearings

If I gave it more thought, I could probably make a longer list.

So what's the point of your question? Have you assumed I am a partisan like so many around here? It sounds like it.

Great! So you didn't vote for Biden then.

I gave my vote to Biden because Trump was/is much, much worse. There's no way I could vote for Trump because I am a disciple of Jesus. Biden was the only one who could beat him, so I gave Biden my vote.

You forgot to ask my what I like about Biden. These are the main reasons why he was the superior candidate to Trump:

(1) He believes in and practices the principle of the rule of law.
(2) He understands and would likely uphold the Constitution.
(3) He has a reasonable grasp of reality and common knowledge -- something Trump lacks.
(4) He could lead our nation out of the pandemic.
(5) He is unlikely to try to become a dictator, while Trump was openly making moves that way.
(6) He is of better personal character than Trump (and character matters).

No way you could. He sounds as bad as you describe President Trump. Maybe I did jump to conclusions then.

If I'm reading you correctly, you have assumed I am a "liberal," a person who doesn't understand the Bible, and possibly not a Christian since I do not give proper reverence and fealty to Trump. Is that correct?