Russia in Ukraine

[Bro. Curtis]

So you admit to being ignorant of all the facts yet you attacked "Old" anyways, and you write off anyone who disagrees with you, as wanting to start a war. Not very honest, or rational.

And remember, economic sanctions don't work, and they create enemies. They kill civilians by starving them. Should you be treated in a condescending manner because you seem to value these people so little ?



Anyways, back O/T, Russia has already been tossed from the G8, correct ?

 

[InTheLight]

Anyways, back O/T, Russia has already been tossed from the G8, correct ?

No. The last thing I have heard is that Obama has suspended preparations for the US to go to the G8 conference to be held in Sochi.

 

[Crabtownboy]

So you admit to being ignorant of all the facts

Does anyone know all the facts. I do know enough history and facts to know that the idea of going to war in the Crimea is foolishness of the highest.

I also know that 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, and 20th century thinking no longer is advisable ... if it ever was.

yet you attacked "Old" anyways, and you write off anyone who disagrees with you, as wanting to start a war. Not very honest, or rational.

Old seems to have no understanding of what such a war would entail and how exceedingly difficult it would be to maintain. Logistics alone would be a horrific nightmare.

And remember, economic sanctions don't work, and they create enemies. They kill civilians by starving them. Should you be treated in a condescending manner because you seem to value these people so little ?

And war does not create enemies? Why do you worry about starvation, but not the killing of innocents in a war?

Anyways, back O/T, Russia has already been tossed from the G8, correct ?

Not yet. It might happen. But European powers might block that.

But how would kicking Russia out actually work?
There’s no formal enforcement mechanism for removing a country from the G-8, which has been meeting since 1975, so all the other countries have to do is not invite Russia to their party.
If the other seven countries agreed to leave Russia out, they could simply resume meeting as the G-7, which is what they were before Russia joined the group in 1998, said Bruce Jones, a former senior adviser for both the World Bank and the United Nations.

One potential roadblock: Germany appeared to have some reservations, with Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier warning German broadcaster ARD against giving up the only format “in which we in the West can speak directly with Russia.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/03/how-would-the-g-8-kick-russia-out/

It is all in a state of flux and nothing is assured yet. This is a very dangerous time.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

No. The last thing I have heard is that Obama has suspended preparations for the US to go to the G8 conference to be held in Sochi.

That's right. They are hosting it. Putin May lose a few big names with this stunt.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

C.T.Boy, it is neither honest or rational to say I don't care about innocents perishing in a war. It is neither honest or rational to say I want war. Leave the personal hate aside when you try and debate.

 

[Crabtownboy]

C.T.Boy, it is neither honest or rational to say I don't care about innocents perishing in a war. It is neither honest or rational to say I want war. Leave the personal hate aside when you try and debate.

Take thy own advice.

Back to the subject. What do you think we should do?

 

[OldRegular]

You are completely irrational and you thinking is straight out of the 16th century.

I knew you were old Crabby but the 16th century. Are you sure your real name is not Enoch? No that can't be cause God took him!

Really Crabby show me one thing in my post that warrants the charge of 16th Century. I will repeat it for you so all can see just how childish you are!

That is nonsense. As woefully as Obama has cut the Military budget our Military is far superior to that of Putin and Russia. Putin is not stupid enough to go to war with us now, perhaps he will after Obama and the leftists totally destroy our Military. Leftists like yourself CTB have been cozying up to Russia since the days of FDR and Alger Hiss!

Obama really whimpered out when he cancelled the missile defense system in Eastern Europe and Putin correctly saw he was dealing with someone who would make a deal as Obama told Putin's flunky Dmitry Medvedev in 2012! After the election Obama said!

Now show me something that is 16th century or admit that you are either lying or immature!

How will you fight a war in a country you cannot get to. You will not be able to go through the Dardanelles and even if they were open it would be suicide to try to take ships through such a narrow channel. Also, what makes you think that we can simply overfly Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, etc. They have their own interests to look out for and I do not believe they would back us in such an ignorant venture.

Please show me where I am advocating war Crabby. I believe you are the only one who has mentioned going to war!

What makes you think it would be so easy. Seems to me you are the one ****-bent on destroying America.

If **** is some kind of slanderous name Crabby I could care less. You are the typical leftist. I will not call you a liberal because by definition they are supposed to be tolerant though I never met one. Crabby you cannot tolerate anyone who disagrees with you. That is a trademark of the left but also the immature.

I would make one additional point. To assume that something miraculous happened at the stroke of midnight at the turn of the century and millennium is childish. i know Kerry spouted that asinine nonsense in Kiev but he was simply making an ass of himself. Man is the same now as he has been since Adam rebelled against God, They are still in rebellion.

Evil men have been with us since Cain murdered his brother. In fact I would say that evil is more prevalent now than at any time in history. It is people like you who are the cause of the most heinous part of that evil, the slaughter of almost 4000 unborn children each day; 56 million in this country since seven evil men committed the most evil act imaginable. It is fitting that they all wore black robes. They like Cain are guilty of the blood of millions. In my opinion you belong with those people Crabby!

 

[OldRegular]

Does anyone know all the facts. I do know enough history and facts to know that the idea of going to war in the Crimea is foolishness of the highest.

A military genius!

I also know that 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, and 20th century thinking no longer is advisable ... if it ever was.

Strange you should say that seeing you are determined to institute dictatorial government in this country; back to the 16th century.

Old seems to have no understanding of what such a war would entail and how exceedingly difficult it would be to maintain. Logistics alone would be a horrific nightmare.

As I said "a military genius"!

And war does not create enemies? Why do you worry about starvation, but not the killing of innocents in a war?

Coming from one who supports the slaughter of the most innocent of all, unborn children, that would be laughable if it were not so tragic. OF courts the Marxists/Fascists have never been too concerned about the innocents. I believe that your hero Stalin starved ten million Ukrainians in the 1920's.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Old, now that you have spewed bile all over I assume you feel better.

Now please answer these questions:

How would you get troops to the Ukraine. There is no assurance that Western European countries would allow the US to overfly their countries or use them for us to transit on the ground?

How would you get naval ships through the Dardanelles?

How would you supply the needs of the military once they are there?

In no other countries would help with their military, would you favor going alone?

Where is your invasion points?

What would you exit strategy be?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Guess I pushed the Princess Bride thing a little too far west, huh?

A tad bit, yes. :laugh:

These kinds of actions imply that the US is really willing to go to war over Ukraine. If they fail there is no other choice but war.

Not so sure I want my sons to shed their blood for that cause.

Russia does not want a war. Not now, at any rate. What they want is to push the Western powers as far as they can be pushed, and with this Little Marxist Dictator in office, there is no real leadership in the West. This despite the fact that, for the time being, the U.S. military is still the most efficient and powerful fighting force in the world. A mere rattle of a U.S. saber would be sufficient to give Russia pause. Europe disarmed 20 years ago, and now I'm sure are wishing they had not done so. Russia, if unchallenged, will become adventurous enough to retake all of the old Eastern Bloc. The LMD is unwilling to rattle, however, despite the fact it would make Putin blink.

Putin is an only line Communist who had childhood heroes the likes of Nikita Khrushchev and Yuri Andropov. In fact, he was a protégé of Andropov. He is old-line, ruthless KGB. He won't stop until someone makes him stop. If we don't sanction and threaten now, we will be in a ground war in Europe inside of five years, or we will (as is more likely) simply acquiesce to a new Soviet Union.

The world is not as the Little Marxist Dictator want it to be. It is as it is. The world has not gotten more civilized. It has remained just as ruthless, dangerous, cut-throat and imperialist as it was before the old Soviet Union fell. Putin is Exhibit A of that fact.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The problem is that if you rattle your sabre you had better be ready to use it. It could be a costly rattle if the rattling fails.

I am not sure the Putin is willing to back down from this administration.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The problem is that if you rattle your sabre you had better be ready to use it. It could be a costly rattle if the rattling fails.

I am not sure the Putin is willing to back down from this administration.

That's my point. He's not. But only because he knows this administration won't unsheathe the saber much less rattle it.

 

[OldRegular]

Old, now that you have spewed bile all over I assume you feel better.

Now please answer these questions:

How would you get troops to the Ukraine. There is no assurance that Western European countries would allow the US to overfly their countries or use them for us to transit on the ground?

How would you get naval ships through the Dardanelles?

How would you supply the needs of the military once they are there?

In no other countries would help with their military, would you favor going alone?

Where is your invasion points?

What would you exit strategy be?

Crabby it was you who started lying that I was advocating war. You still are! As far as I know you are the only one on this Forum mouthing WAR.

I am not the military genius that you are Crabbie but if I wanted to day dream and play "If I was president" I know enough not to surround myself with leftists like Hillary and Holder and incompetents like Hagel.

 

[OldRegular]

C.T.Boy, it is neither honest or rational to say I don't care about innocents perishing in a war. It is neither honest or rational to say I want war. Leave the personal hate aside when you try and debate.

You are indeed falsely accusing others of advocating war.

And if anyone on this Forum knows about the slaughter of Innocents you do!

 

[abcgrad94]

The problem is that if you rattle your sabre you had better be ready to use it. It could be a costly rattle if the rattling fails.

I am not sure the Putin is willing to back down from this administration.

I agree with you, and I do believe Putin will go ahead and take Ukraine regardless.

This is just my interpretation of prophecy, but I think Ukraine is part of Magog and will be united with Russia along with Albania and/or Georgia before the Ezek. 38-39 war takes place.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Take thy own advice.

If you stick to rational and honest statements you will have no problem with me.

Back to the subject. What do you think we should do?

We should do nothing. Save to say give them back the nukes we tricked them into surrendering. (That's the only decent move I can think of. It's our shenanigans with the Euroweenies that have helped the Ukraine get in this spot. But I am quite aware of the silliness of the statement.)

 

[OldRegular]

If you stick to rational and honest statements you will have no problem with me.



We should do nothing. Save to say give them back the nukes we tricked them into surrendering. (That's the only decent move I can think of. It's our shenanigans with the Euroweenies that have helped the Ukraine get in this spot. But I am quite aware of the silliness of the statement.)

Given that Stalin starved about 10 million Ukranians they might just lob a few into the Kremlin. It is sad but the Godless left in this country expect the Godless Marxist leaders of Russia to be compassionate!

Obama whimpering out on the Missile Defense System in Eastern Europe may turn out to be the equivalent of Chamberlain's "Peace in Our Time"!

 

[Crabtownboy]

We should do nothing. Save to say give them back the nukes we tricked them into surrendering. (That's the only decent move I can think of. It's our shenanigans with the Euroweenies that have helped the Ukraine get in this spot. But I am quite aware of the silliness of the statement.)

For the most part I agree with you. The wheels of this were set in motion when Clinton agreed to move NATO eastward. Naturally Russia saw this as a threat.

Where so many use the name Putin I believe that word should be Russia. They are only doing what they have always said they would do in a circumstance like this one. The Ukraine is a "red line" for Russia. They see it as a buffer state and have viewed it as such for centuries.

Economic pressure and European countries should deal with this. We need to stop trying to be the policeman for the entire world.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Economic pressure and European countries should deal with this.

With what? They haven't had military commitment in the EU for 20 years.

We need to stop trying to be the policeman for the entire world.

I guess we'll just let the Russians reconstitute the old Soviet Union, then. Because unless we stop them, no one will.

 

[Revmitchell]

The US cannot get involved in this. We are broke and cannot afford it. We certainly do not need to be sending them a billion dollars in financial support. We just do not have it.