Rythym does what for the body?

[paidagogos]

You are showing your opinion............

Now, aren't you glad that God led me to stick around..

That way I can aggravate you by commanding you to provide scripture to back your assertations...

If you don't have scripture.. then you need to back down.

All you have is your opinion, and worldly philosophy.

Show in black and white where it is prohibited...
Especially since the Hebrews.. God's chosen people.. had instruments of rhythm.... And God accepted their praise.

The reason you are getting mad and bothered is because you are spouting a doctrine that cannot be biblically based.

You have become indoctrinated not educated....

A person that is educated remains cool when asked to show proof...
A person that has been indoctrinated heats up when asked to show proof because they cannot do so... and they feel threatened... so they lash out at the person asking for proof....

An indoctrinated person believes if they yell something loud enough it becomes true....

So, I am asking you again, as C4K has asked...

Give it to us from the Bible... NOT your opinion.

Well, you have expressed your opinion. What passes for an appeal to Scripture is actually an expression of your opinion that only things found in Scripture are incontestable. Well, Scripture does teach that Christians are to exercise judgment in matters of life (e.g. I Corinthians 6).

Can we learn nothing from experience? When I was young and chasing girls, I certainly knew that girls from churches with certain music traditions were less likely to gratify fleshy urges than those from churches with highly rhythmic music and emotional services. Usually this music with a beat produced more physical longings than spiritual.

Have you ever read serious students of rock 'n roll on the secular side? They speak of the "empowerment" that beat and rhythm give. Does this glorify God or appeal to fleshly pride?

Naw, you're arguing your opinion for what you want to believe. We're just playing pious games by saying, "If the Bible doesn't say it, it's just your opinion."

You said, "If you don't have scripture.. then you need to back down." Now, let's see you support this statement from Scripture. If it is a valid principle, then it applies to you as well as others. How do you know that you must have Scripture to judge anything or your opinion is invalid? Is not this a presupposition of your opinion? And what is a presupposition other than opinion? Show us the Scriptural basis of your assertion or back down. Your turn. :type:

 

[paidagogos]

Judgment, discernment..........................

Why not just share the scriptures that are so obvious?

Read all the books, heard all the lectures, seen the videos.

I have never seen where the Bible teaches that rhythm based music weakens man's spiritual nature.

We may have many valid reasons to choose more 'conservative' music in our services. Societal, preferential, whatever. That's fine and no onen should be critical of our choices, but lets make sure that we have a Bible basis for what we call biblical.

You wrote: "I have never seen where the Bible teaches that rhythm based music weakens man's spiritual nature." I deny the implication. Music is a better aphrodisiac than alcohol. Admittedly, what is arousing varies culturally and generationally but it is a real phenomenon nonetheless. Ask anyone who is accustomed to picking up hot girls. Sometimes, we, as Christians, are more naive in our petty sins than the ungodly in the worldly who experience the very dregs of sin.

Furthermore, is the Bible exhaustive in describing every detail of godly living? If not, then we ought not put such expectations upon Scripture. There are Biblical principles, Christian discernment, and the leading of the Holy Spirit to guide us in these matters without specific prohibition in Scripture.

I doubt that you would be comfortable with the statement: "I can do anything without sinning that the Scriptures do not specifically forbid." Would you subscribe to this? Be careful because I'll call your hand on this one. Thus, there must be sinful things which are not specifically prohibited by a direct Scriptural referant. Do you disagree?

What do you think?

 

[Don]

Wonder what we would say today about David's dancing to/with music in 2 Samuel 6?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

You sure? What does the BIBLE say?

The Bible says nothing about rhythm based music, thats why we cant build a doctrine around it.

God gave us brains and he gave us His discernment. Use logic. Use practicality. Use preference. Use cultural norms and mores. We are foolish if we ignore all those.

However a claim was made that the Bible teaches that rhythm based music weakens mans spiritual nature. Rhythm based music may or may not do that, but the Bible does not teach it.

 

[sag38]

But Roger, have you not read the book of I Opinions?

 

[annsni]

Man - I gotta say - where is this aphrodisiac effect from music? I've never experienced it myself in all of the years that I've been listening to music. Maybe I'm listening to the wrong music? But the music that I have has a beat. Hmmmm - must look into this more. Maybe there's something wrong with me?

 

[Aaron]

The Bible says nothing about rhythm based music, thats why we cant build a doctrine around it.

God gave us brains and he gave us His discernment. Use logic. Use practicality. Use preference. Use cultural norms and mores. We are foolish if we ignore all those.

First, you say that we can't build a teaching around it, then you say we can using the tools God supplied. Which is it?

Can we or can't we?

However a claim was made that the Bible teaches that rhythm based music weakens mans spiritual nature. Rhythm based music may or may not do that, but the Bible does not teach it.

Using the tools that God gave us, can a link be established between heavily rhythmic music and the demeanor that God prescribes for His children?

And I repeat my question, about psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Were they rhthmic or not, and how do you know?

 

[HankD]

Man - I gotta say - where is this aphrodisiac effect from music? I've never experienced it myself in all of the years that I've been listening to music. Maybe I'm listening to the wrong music? But the music that I have has a beat. Hmmmm - must look into this more. Maybe there's something wrong with me?

Using music is akin to firearms (for instance).

You can have your rifles and pistols, join a gun club and have good clean recreation, hunt for your meat supply or you can rob banks and/or kill people.

What one does with music depends on the heart and mind of the participant.

Some rock music such as came forth from the Grateful Dead (as an example) was clearly associated with the evil of drug addiction and idolization of the musicians.

I was a teenager in the early 50's when rock 'n roll developed.

Look at the words "rock" and "roll", the words themselves can be suggestive.

All the "rock" of the 50's was developed by musicians of corrupt morals (for the most part).

Do I still listen to it (50's "rock"), yes, on nostalgic occasions. But I also own quite a few firearms and I've never robbed a bank or killed anyone with them.


HankD

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

First, you say that we can't build a teaching around it, then you say we can using the tools God supplied. Which is it?

Can we or can't we?

Using the tools that God gave us, can a link be established between heavily rhythmic music and the demeanor that God prescribes for His children?

And I repeat my question, about psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Were they rhthmic or not, and how do you know?

You are trying to find a fight where there is none.

We can't establish a Bible teaching. We can establish a practice for our local churches.


As far as 'heavily rhythmic music' our boundaries are eventually going to be established by opinion and prefernce.

Neither one of us know whether or not songs, hymns, and spiritual songs were rhythmic. We are not told.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Man - I gotta say - where is this aphrodisiac effect from music? I've never experienced it myself in all of the years that I've been listening to music. Maybe I'm listening to the wrong music? But the music that I have has a beat. Hmmmm - must look into this more. Maybe there's something wrong with me?

I have never in my life been se*ually stirred by rock music. Not once.

We are in the same boat. If you are messed up so am I.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I have never in my life been se*ually stirred by rock music. Not once.

We are in the same boat. If you are messed up so am I.

I thought that was what Barry White was for.

There is nothing in the Scriptures about Rock music so its a moot point.

 

[Don]

....And I repeat my question, about psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Were they rhthmic or not, and how do you know?

As far as 'heavily rhythmic music' our boundaries are eventually going to be established by opinion and prefernce.

Neither one of us know whether or not songs, hymns, and spiritual songs were rhythmic. We are not told.

Actually, that's not quite true. We know for a fact they were rhythmic. How? They used timbrels (hand drums), so there was some form of rhythm to them.

We know from 2 Samuel 6 that David danced with all his might, to the point where his wife described his dancing as undressing in front of everyone; there were trumpets involved. It's a common fact that musical instruments follow some sort of rhythm in the music they play.

So when you say "heavily rhythmic," that's where you need to define what "heavily rhythmic" means. I think a lot of people mistake this for "lots of drum sets" or "voodoo drum type stuff."

 

[Don]

I thought that was what Barry White was for.

There is nothing in the Scriptures about Rock music so its a moot point.

Disagree. Scripture says whatsoever you do, do it for the glory of God.

 

[Alcott]

And I repeat my question, about psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Were they rhthmic or not, and how do you know?

Yes. Any song or any music is "rhythmic."

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Actually, that's not quite true. We know for a fact they were rhythmic. How? They used timbrels (hand drums), so there was some form of rhythm to them.

We know from 2 Samuel 6 that David danced with all his might, to the point where his wife described his dancing as undressing in front of everyone; there were trumpets involved. It's a common fact that musical instruments follow some sort of rhythm in the music they play.

So when you say "heavily rhythmic," that's where you need to define what "heavily rhythmic" means. I think a lot of people mistake this for "lots of drum sets" or "voodoo drum type stuff."

"heavily rhythmic' is not my phrase.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Disagree. Scripture says whatsoever you do, do it for the glory of God.

I don't see rock n roll in that verse what so ever. So your Saying God has a problem with 4 / 4 timing?

 

[rbell]

I have never in my life been se*ually stirred by rock music. Not once.

Me neither.

But I can't listen to Polka music, because it stirs up the lusts of the flesh.

 

[Salamander]

Now, aren't you glad that God led me to stick around..

Why, of Course! Who else is so readily exacerbated.

That way I can aggravate you by commanding you to provide scripture to back your assertations...

Doesn't "bother" me a bit to give references to what Scriptures condemn worldly music and how that music incites undulations of the body relative to sexual intercourse.

If you don't have scripture.. then you need to back down.

"Back down"? From what may I ask?

All you have is your opinion, and worldly philosophy.

You would love to keep thinking that because YOU love the undulating music incites.

When and if I do provide the references, YOU will only deny them, just as YOU have denied so many others as IF they aren't B&W enough for your palate.

Show in black and white where it is prohibited...
Especially since the Hebrews.. God's chosen people.. had instruments of rhythm.... And God accepted their praise.

:laugh: And you would have them with bones through their noses, [crude comment snipped], spears and shields in hand, plates in their earlobes.....

Would YOU pleeeeeeaaaaasssssssssssse! address that which IS dostinguished between "rhythm-based" music and just plain rhythms? I seriously doubt you will.

The reason you are getting mad and bothered is because you are spouting a doctrine that cannot be biblically based.

You have become indoctrinated not educated....

Ah, yes, the old slam your brother because he takes a stand you should and then attack his character by saying he is not educated. That, sir, is a practise of the Greek scholar to try and abase his lessers. It is heretical and an insult to the Lord who bought us both.:smilewinkgrin:

A person that is educated remains cool when asked to show proof...
A person that has been indoctrinated heats up when asked to show proof because they cannot do so... and they feel threatened... so they lash out at the person asking for proof....

Looking in your mirror has a way of convincing some, but obviously you're seeing the person you think you are.:love2:

An indoctrinated person believes if they yell something loud enough it becomes true....

So, I am asking you again, as C4K has asked...

Give it to us from the Bible... NOT your opinion.

You're looking for it spelled out. What is really amazing is how you deny reality and confound the scriptures rather than accept the principles.

Me? "angry":laugh:

 

[Salamander]

My teens will tell you that rock music and rebellion do not go hand in hand. Of course SOME music can go hand in hand but it's more of the lyrics and not the music itself. My daughters listen to Christian rock and lots of worship stuff because of their work on the worship team and they are far from rebellious (unless you call a messy room rebellious but it's messy because they're busy between school, church and friends. Yeah, my rebellious 18 year old has been ministering to a young woman at her secular college (majoring in art - a definite worldly pursuit). I really pray for her...

As for those who have been sinners in the CCM world, that's happening everywhere - even amongst the greatest ministers there are. My husband was told when he went into the ministry that there are 3 places that Satan will get a man to ruin his ministry - money, sex and power. Yes, men fall - but that doesn't mean that what they're doing is wrong but that their heart is sinful. IFB pastors have fallen - does that mean being an IFB pastor is wrong?

I know men in the world of music who are faithful men of God who have such hearts for the Lord. We had Charlie Hall at our church a few years ago and when they were just about to go on stage, my husband was in tremendous pain in his foot (he was just post surgery if I remember correctly - after a serious fall off our roof). They delayed the worship time to surround my husband, lay hands on him and pray for healing and a release of pain. To this day, he's still in contact with some of the band members and they still pray for my husband and his ministry and have come to NY with a burden to reach the lost youth for Christ. These are the real deal.

You can't lump everything into "sinful" and not "sinful" where God has not done so. Yes, for some rock music is a sin because of their background. Just as for some, being around others who drink could be a sin because of their background. It's helpful to understand Scripture to get this concept. I think Paul addresses this issue, huh?

All "rock" is not bad, BUT when it is so easily associated withn that which IS bad it is BEST to excercise prudence and BEWARE! lest thou also be tempted and fall into the same snare of the devil.

This Burger King mentality to have it your way has done so much to cause the spirituality of the church to go down the toilet, I am AMAZED so educated a people do NOT see the why of it.

BLINDERS ON Christianity has never done anything to promote the church, only to allow the world to creep in unawares and destroy from within.

Learn principles according to the use of prudence and avoid profane babblings.....:thumbsup:



:godisgood:

 

[Salamander]

UM, just for clarity here for the simple: all music is rhythmic, or it is just noise. Even jazz with its progressive beat and changes in tempo and timing is still "music" with rhythm.:smilewinkgrin: