Salary for Pastor

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Just get this phrase rolling through my head as I read this thread "Jealous much?"

Of Padre, nope.....only happy that he is. :laugh::love2:

 

[Luke2427]

That depends if you want to take a worldly or scriptural approach to your outcome

Enlighten us as to what this "scriptural approach" of oyurs is.

If you want to go that route, it would be an abuse of labor laws to expect 20 people to each work 15 hours a week to help that plumber get everything done, then not pay them too. One plumber gets all the money, while everybody who helped him is eating dirt?
The analogy fails

Who said anything about him hiring workers and not paying them??????????

That was just weird.

If you don't add weird stupid mess to the analogy, it stands just fine.

He's simply a member of One Body, with different gifts, and a different calling from anyone else in the church. He's not "special", he's called by God to be a different body part and do his part.

Which supports what I just said. He has gifts others do not have. We have an accord.

If you didn't put the guy on a pedestal, and think of how great and valuable he is, maybe people wouldn't hold him to such an unreasonable standard

Who put him on a pedestal?

Besides, even if I did pastors have had to deal with morons and live in glass house many hundreds of years before I was born. So... you have no point.

Also, if that attitude carries on for too long, maybe he needs to work more on the unity of the flock, and less on planning a "vision" for the "organization"

Why?

Unity around what? What the heck is the POINT of unity if the people have no vision, no passion to fulfill the great commission.

See above, and think of how the apostle Paul handled criticism. By asking for a ton of money for his hassle? ok

Who said anything about a pastor asking for money? Could you stay on topic for one second?

This is about what the people OFFER the pastor- not about what he ASKS FOR.

Unspiritual people do not respect what he does.

That's what we are talking about.

Maybe. maybe not. I don't think I've seen anywhere that "education" is equivalent to a men being equipped by God for a purpose. You're thinking worldly again, not scriptural

Being educated for ministry is worldly? That's stupid.

Worldly again. God is the one who calls, and many times the guy who CAN'T is the one that God calls. You think God wants a bunch of little chiefs running around down here?

I don't think you have the SLIGHTEST idea what biblical worldliness is.

See above

see above

That should be EVERY believer's goal, not just the pastor's.

It should be every believers goal to prepare himself for what he needs to be in the pastorate and the pulpit???

That's stupid.

Worldly again. I see no scriptural basis for treating the church as an organization.

see above

And, you just confirmed my rebuttal to your second piece on the plumber. In your estimation, the pastor is assembling a team of volunteers, and browbeating them into free labor, all the while promising heavenly blessings, as he enjoys the benefits of a six figure compensation package. Nice way to portray him

Who said anything about browbeating?

You literally CAN'T stay on topic, can you????

 

[JamesL]

Who said anything about him hiring workers and not paying them??????????

That was just weird.

Ummm, you're the one who wrote:

It takes a super, extraordinary man to build an organization of volunteers and take those volunteers and lead them to do hard work for no pay

You think his "vision" is the only work in the church?
What if his "vision" didn't come from God? According to you,

He has a vision for the church (once again- if he is a good one) that far exceeds any other member. He has a passion for it. He spends day and night, night and day strategizing, planning, praying and pushing that vision.

If he's a good one. Boy, that's rich.



The apostle Paul had a "vision" for his missionary journeys, too. But it is VERY clear that not everything he conjured up was in keeping with the Holy Spirit:

They passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia; and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them; and passing by Mysia, they came down to Troas. A vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing and appealing to him, and saying, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” When he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. - Acts 16:6-10

Did Paul "push" his vision? Or did he obey the Holy Spirit?
You've got this idea that a pastor comes up with a "vision", then pushes it. That, my friend, is a worldly outlook on what a pastor is for. He's not a Fortune 500 CEO, he's a SHEPHERD.

Which supports what I just said. He has gifts others do not have. We have an accord.

You said nothing of gifts. You mentioned education, and being in the throes of criticism. Big difference. A WORLD of difference Paul said:

And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. - 1Corinthians 2:1-5

The worldly part is YOUR futile thinking that education is synonymous with the call of God and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Who put him on a pedestal?

Besides, even if I did pastors have had to deal with morons and live in glass house many hundreds of years before I was born. So... you have no point.

Yes, you put him on a pedestal. That's why you included a half concession, and you know it. Here is where:

That is worth more than you may ever know.

It takes a super, extraordinary man to build an organization of volunteers and take those volunteers and lead them

He's not a Pope, man. He is a man, called of God for a specific purpose. And he's not supposed to building an organization, either. He's supposed to be tending to a flock.

Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. - 1Peter 5:1-4

GOD is the One with the vision, and pastors are supposed to exercise oversight according to the will of God. NOT under compulsion, like browbeating the flock into service to his pushing of a vision that he may have conjured up all on his own.

Unity around what? What the heck is the POINT of unity if the people have no vision, no passion to fulfill the great commission.

That displays your biblical ignorance

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift....
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

I don't see anything about "pushing a vision" here. Building up the saints in love has been the "vision" of the Holy Spirit since the church's inception.

Too many pastors are creating busy bodies, and don't take the care they need to in building up the saints.

Who said anything about a pastor asking for money? Could you stay on topic for one second?

This is about what the people OFFER the pastor- not about what he ASKS FOR.

Nobody said he's asking for money, but in some cases, it does happen. Look back through this thread, and you will see a specific example I gave. You're the one who was citing education and criticism as criteria that makes a pastor worth his paycheck.

I don't believe Paul ever mentioned either as grounds for pay

How many scripture verses can you come up with to support your worldly idea?

Being educated for ministry is worldly? That's stupid.

I never said anything like that. You said that he ought to be the most educated man on campus. I merely responded:

Maybe. maybe not. I don't think I've seen anywhere that "education" is equivalent to a men being equipped by God for a purpose. You're thinking worldly again, not scriptural

Twisting peoples' words doesn't go very far on the internet, you know. There is such a thing as a copy/paste feature.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

I don't think you have the SLIGHTEST idea what biblical worldliness is.

I don't think you have any idea what biblical pastoring looks like

It should be every believers goal to prepare himself for what he needs to be in the pastorate and the pulpit???

It should be every believer's goal to prepare himself for whatever he's called by God to do. I'm sure you noticed I didn't include the question of preparing for a sermon.

Dishonesty doesn't get you too far with God, you know?

That's stupid.

Well established fact. My mother told me that at least 5,000 times when I was a kid. Good thing God still loves stupid people, I guess.

Who said anything about browbeating?

That's how you make it sound. Like he's got to twist peoples' arms with a promise of spiritual blessings. Can we have another look?

It takes a super, extraordinary man to build an organization of volunteers and take those volunteers and lead them to do hard work for no pay

 

[Luke2427]

Ummm, you're the one who wrote:

You think his "vision" is the only work in the church?
What if his "vision" didn't come from God? According to you,

If he's a good one. Boy, that's rich.



The apostle Paul had a "vision" for his missionary journeys, too. But it is VERY clear that not everything he conjured up was in keeping with the Holy Spirit:


Did Paul "push" his vision? Or did he obey the Holy Spirit?
You've got this idea that a pastor comes up with a "vision", then pushes it. That, my friend, is a worldly outlook on what a pastor is for. He's not a Fortune 500 CEO, he's a SHEPHERD.




You said nothing of gifts. You mentioned education, and being in the throes of criticism. Big difference. A WORLD of difference Paul said:

The worldly part is YOUR futile thinking that education is synonymous with the call of God and the leading of the Holy Spirit.




Yes, you put him on a pedestal. That's why you included a half concession, and you know it. Here is where:

He's not a Pope, man. He is a man, called of God for a specific purpose. And he's not supposed to building an organization, either. He's supposed to be tending to a flock.

GOD is the One with the vision, and pastors are supposed to exercise oversight according to the will of God. NOT under compulsion, like browbeating the flock into service to his pushing of a vision that he may have conjured up all on his own.




That displays your biblical ignorance

I don't see anything about "pushing a vision" here. Building up the saints in love has been the "vision" of the Holy Spirit since the church's inception.

Too many pastors are creating busy bodies, and don't take the care they need to in building up the saints.




Nobody said he's asking for money, but in some cases, it does happen. Look back through this thread, and you will see a specific example I gave. You're the one who was citing education and criticism as criteria that makes a pastor worth his paycheck.

I don't believe Paul ever mentioned either as grounds for pay

How many scripture verses can you come up with to support your worldly idea?




I never said anything like that. You said that he ought to be the most educated man on campus. I merely responded:

Twisting peoples' words doesn't go very far on the internet, you know. There is such a thing as a copy/paste feature.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.



I don't think you have any idea what biblical pastoring looks like



It should be every believer's goal to prepare himself for whatever he's called by God to do. I'm sure you noticed I didn't include the question of preparing for a sermon.

Dishonesty doesn't get you too far with God, you know?




Well established fact. My mother told me that at least 5,000 times when I was a kid. Good thing God still loves stupid people, I guess.




That's how you make it sound. Like he's got to twist peoples' arms with a promise of spiritual blessings. Can we have another look?

You have issues. You are insulting and ignorant on this subject. Furthermore you add to what people say and twist it to suit you. You obviously don't know anything about being a pastor. You don't know what biblical worldliness is. You are jealous of pastors who are well compensated for skills that you do not possess. You are envious and have a small man syndrome which drives you to cut down people who cast a shadow over you. You are insecure.

Nothing you have said changes the facts I shared.

Pastors, just to deal with people like you, ought to get a million dollars an hour- and it still would not be worth it.

 

[JamesL]

You have issues. You are insulting and ignorant on this subject. Furthermore you add to what people say and twist it to suit you. You obviously don't know anything about being a pastor. You don't know what biblical worldliness is. You are jealous of pastors who are well compensated for skills that you do not possess. You are envious and have a small man syndrome which drives you to cut down people who cast a shadow over you. You are insecure.

You get that by Word of Knowledge imparted to you by somebody like Benny Hinn?

nothing you have said changes the facts I shared.

Pastors, just to deal with people like you, ought to get a million dollars an hour- and it still would not be worth it.

I'm sure your "flock" appreciates being fleeced so that you can further your "vision"

 

[HungryInherit]

You have issues. You are insulting and ignorant on this subject. Furthermore you add to what people say and twist it to suit you. You obviously don't know anything about being a pastor. You don't know what biblical worldliness is. You are jealous of pastors who are well compensated for skills that you do not possess. You are envious and have a small man syndrome which drives you to cut down people who cast a shadow over you. You are insecure.

Nothing you have said changes the facts I shared.

Pastors, just to deal with people like you, ought to get a million dollars an hour- and it still would not be worth it.

What a shameful thing to say to try and cut another brother down. Sickening behavior and James has made you look foolish.

 

[JamesL]

What a shameful thing to say to try and cut another brother down. Sickening behavior and James has made you look foolish.

I really appreciate you. Thank you

 

[pinoybaptist]

the Scripture that says elders are to be accorded double honor should not be interpreted as putting them on a pedestal. the latter is a dangerous thing. I have been under pastors who claim the "touch not mine annointed" scripture as their "city of refuge" when somebody becomes critical.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

Well this thread has gone downhill fast. Here is an idea, why don’t we leave pastoral compensation up to the individual churches. Isn’t that what most Baptists practice with our congregational leadership. If you don’t like what your church does, then you have a vote as a member. If you don’t like what some other church does you can feel free to criticize from afar, but what you think does not really matter, it’s not your church.

Pastors, like any other profession, and it is a job as well as a calling, are compensated based on the results. Get your church to grow, offerings increase, so can your compensation. If you can’t get people to follow and support your ministry perhaps you are doing something wrong. What about that God serving pastor who is not blessed financially? Well I think God is still in control. Is that “unfair?” You bet it is. God is not about fair, He is about Just. We have a Just God, not always a fair one.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You have issues. You are insulting and ignorant on this subject. Furthermore you add to what people say and twist it to suit you. You obviously don't know anything about being a pastor. You don't know what biblical worldliness is. You are jealous of pastors who are well compensated for skills that you do not possess. You are envious and have a small man syndrome which drives you to cut down people who cast a shadow over you. You are insecure.

Nothing you have said changes the facts I shared.

Pastors, just to deal with people like you, ought to get a million dollars an hour- and it still would not be worth it.

Luke, must you retaliate violently to people who criticism what they view as inappropriate? James has his opinion, you have yours & I have mine.....these are different points of view expressed & they should be respected as that.

Now..... since I am the originator of the Thread, go back & review what I 1st stated......and it is that I cannot join a church where their entire budget is inflated & particularly the Pastors salary. And I keyed in on his salary to prove a point......Its too much & if they continue paying the guy that salary then the church is going to go broke.

Eventually this reality will set into the body of the church who have their eyes wide shut. And that troubles me that compromises cant be made, that rearrangements of money cant be negotiated, that everyone is operating as if it were 2005 again (a land of milk & honey) and not the present economic conditions where an austerity plan of action is firmly in place. This will not go well for this little group of believers, now and in the future. I assure you, this breeds disaster.

 

[JamesL]

.....what I 1st stated...... their entire budget is inflated & particularly the Pastors salary. And I keyed in on his salary to prove a point......Its too much & if they continue paying the guy that salary then the church is going to go broke.

Eventually this reality will set into the body of the church who have their eyes wide shut

Well stated. I appreciate you, man.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well stated. I appreciate you, man.

James......people who come out of fundamentalism & survived are very motivated to put it right. All my friends in here "BB forum" have been burned by some system of religion who has used them or else tried to use them. therefore, and its really funny, but they are the most combative and/or sarcastic people
on the forum. You will learn that if you stay here long enough. .

I honestly have to say though that it is refreshing to see a renewed sense of masculine energy amongst these people & maybe thats because fundamentalism attempts to castrate people & replace the WORD with a system of bible quotes & techniques for salvation that are supposedly certain, so you can always know the ground on which you stand & keep God on your side... IE a merit/demerit religious system. (examples: can women come to church in pants, can ya have a beer now and then, is your pastor frowning on you cause you didn't wear a suit & tie, no open toed shoes for women....blah, blah, blah)

What we are fighting for brother, is a greater Trinitarian God where you have union with your maker & where you are part of something much bigger & better......and where you can relax with God, and even make mistakes. Thats cause you reside with Him in his kingdom.

Does that make me a partial Pretorist.....cause I don no.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well this thread has gone downhill fast. Here is an idea, why don’t we leave pastoral compensation up to the individual churches. Isn’t that what most Baptists practice with our congregational leadership. If you don’t like what your church does, then you have a vote as a member. If you don’t like what some other church does you can feel free to criticize from afar, but what you think does not really matter, it’s not your church.

Pastors, like any other profession, and it is a job as well as a calling, are compensated based on the results. Get your church to grow, offerings increase, so can your compensation. If you can’t get people to follow and support your ministry perhaps you are doing something wrong. What about that God serving pastor who is not blessed financially? Well I think God is still in control. Is that “unfair?” You bet it is. God is not about fair, He is about Just. We have a Just God, not always a fair one.

OK..... how do you measure results?

 

[sag38]

"Pastors, just to deal with people like you, ought to get a million dollars an hour- and it still would not be worth it."

I usually don't agree too much with Luke but on this one I agree. Being a pastor is a blessing but some folks suck all the joy right out of it. I will admit that I am glad that some folks posting in this thread are not members of the church I serve. If so it would come down to either they go or I go. No pastor should have to put up with the idiotic stuff coming from some of the folks posting on this thread. No amount of compensation would be adequate.

 

[sag38]

Why is it that when some folks go looking for a church to attend they go looking for what is wrong? And, if they find something wrong they criticize. Rather that becoming apart of the church and allowing the Holy Spirit to use them to help the church they sit on the back pew and pick and pick and pick. My advise to them is to stay away from any church, far away, until they can get their heart right and start looking for a church with good intentions rather than entering the door with an agenda.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why is it that when some folks go looking for a church to attend they go looking for what is wrong? And, if they find something wrong they criticize. Rather that becoming apart of the church and allowing the Holy Spirit to use them to help the church they sit on the back pew and pick and pick and pick. My advise to them is to stay away from any church, far away, until they can get their heart right and start looking for a church with good intentions rather than entering the door with an agenda.

Are you assuming all churches are in fact truly christian?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"Pastors, just to deal with people like you, ought to get a million dollars an hour- and it still would not be worth it."

I usually don't agree too much with Luke but on this one I agree. Being a pastor is a blessing but some folks suck all the joy right out of it. I will admit that I am glad that some folks posting in this thread are not members of the church I serve. If so it would come down to either they go or I go. No pastor should have to put up with the idiotic stuff coming from some of the folks posting on this thread. No amount of compensation would be adequate.

Then resolve the problem by doing it for free.

 

[preacher4truth]

Enlighten us as to what this "scriptural approach" of oyurs is.




Who said anything about him hiring workers and not paying them??????????

That was just weird.

If you don't add weird stupid mess to the analogy, it stands just fine.




Which supports what I just said. He has gifts others do not have. We have an accord.




Who put him on a pedestal?

Besides, even if I did pastors have had to deal with morons and live in glass house many hundreds of years before I was born. So... you have no point.



Why?

Unity around what? What the heck is the POINT of unity if the people have no vision, no passion to fulfill the great commission.



Who said anything about a pastor asking for money? Could you stay on topic for one second?

This is about what the people OFFER the pastor- not about what he ASKS FOR.

Unspiritual people do not respect what he does.

That's what we are talking about.



Being educated for ministry is worldly? That's stupid.




I don't think you have the SLIGHTEST idea what biblical worldliness is.




see above





It should be every believers goal to prepare himself for what he needs to be in the pastorate and the pulpit???

That's stupid.



see above




Who said anything about browbeating?

You literally CAN'T stay on topic, can you????

Yup, what he said. :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

[preacher4truth]

Why is it that when some folks go looking for a church to attend they go looking for what is wrong? And, if they find something wrong they criticize. Rather that becoming apart of the church and allowing the Holy Spirit to use them to help the church they sit on the back pew and pick and pick and pick. My advise to them is to stay away from any church, far away, until they can get their heart right and start looking for a church with good intentions rather than entering the door with an agenda.

Nailed it. :wavey: :thumbs: :thumbsup:

 

[preacher4truth]

You have issues. You are insulting and ignorant on this subject. Furthermore you add to what people say and twist it to suit you. You obviously don't know anything about being a pastor. You don't know what biblical worldliness is. You are jealous of pastors who are well compensated for skills that you do not possess. You are envious and have a small man syndrome which drives you to cut down people who cast a shadow over you. You are insecure.

Nothing you have said changes the facts I shared.

Pastors, just to deal with people like you, ought to get a million dollars an hour- and it still would not be worth it.

Bingo! But we have ways of dealing with folks like him who sow discord and are busy bodies. It's Biblical. It would be time for him and his to go elsewhere. :thumbs: