Salary for Pastor

[preacher4truth]

The congregation knows what this man is getting paid, if they have no problem with it then so be it. It's called autonomy. Don't like it go elsewhere and tell us about the next problem with that church. Then do the hokey pokey again. :laugh: :love2:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The congregation knows what this man is getting paid, if they have no problem with it then so be it. It's called autonomy. Don't like it go elsewhere and tell us about the next problem with that church. Then do the hokey pokey again. :laugh: :love2:

Sure they do & thats what is so freaking funny....... cause most of the base is retiring & moving away & they are not growing the church from a contributing head count basis. So its a sinking ship & they know it. So, the same result will happen if nothing is done to resolve the issues. Wonderful congregation not tackling the hard issues. :smilewinkgrin:

Yep, that time in accounting class & 25 yrs running business really pays off. Do they teach accounting in seminary.....God knows they should. :laugh:

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

OK..... how do you measure results?

Good question EWF, because there are lots of ways to measure results and even growth in a church. If the membership is growing in Christ does that necessarily mean that they are growing in numbers? What about churches in areas that are declining in wealth and population, wouldn’t you expect those churches to shrink even if they were well run?

But in this case, when it comes to salary, it is easy to measure results as income. If a church has more income, more collections or wherever they are getting income, then they can pay more and do more. Does God always bless churches that are doing his work this way? Of course not, there is much more to ministry than just a salary. But we are talking about salary on this thread. If a pastor wants more salary he needs to increase the church’s income. That is not a hard concept to understand.

No, most seminaries don’t teach accounting, and I agree with you they should, or at least some type of small business management and leadership type classes. A pastor has to be more than a biblical scholar and a motivational speaker. As his ministry grows he has to be able to manage it and many can’t.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Good question EWF, because there are lots of ways to measure results and even growth in a church. If the membership is growing in Christ does that necessarily mean that they are growing in numbers? What about churches in areas that are declining in wealth and population, wouldn’t you expect those churches to shrink even if they were well run?

But in this case, when it comes to salary, it is easy to measure results as income. If a church has more income, more collections or wherever they are getting income, then they can pay more and do more. Does God always bless churches that are doing his work this way? Of course not, there is much more to ministry than just a salary. But we are talking about salary on this thread. If a pastor wants more salary he needs to increase the church’s income. That is not a hard concept to understand.

No, most seminaries don’t teach accounting, and I agree with you they should, or at least some type of small business management and leadership type classes. A pastor has to be more than a biblical scholar and a motivational speaker. As his ministry grows he has to be able to manage it and many can’t.

The way its handled in New Jersey (with raising taxes, closing the GWB at 6 am causing a 4 hr delay each day etc., :laugh is shut it down, & move to Florida. That will teach em!

now in Pennsylvania everybody goes on disability & food stamps. Or burns their house down for the insurance money!:love2:

two different mindsets in this Obamanation.

 

[sag38]

Yep, let's show up a few times, sit on the back pew, hang out in the shadows, and look for what isn't right. Why not start with trying to find what is right and working from there? What business is it of a new comer to question the salary of a pastor when the newcomer has no real clue as to the history or the situation.? It's real easy to manage a church from the back pew, especially when you haven't been involved in anything except warming a pew. Why not get your hands dirty? Why not get involved and find out what is really going on? Or better yet, stay away. With your heart attitude you would be nothing but a boil on the blessed assurance of any pastor.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yep, let's show up a few times, sit on the back pew, hang out in the shadows, and look for what isn't right. Why not start with trying to find what is right and working from there? What business is it of a new comer to question the salary of a pastor when the newcomer has no real clue as to the history or the situation.? It's real easy to manage a church from the back pew, especially when you haven't been involved in anything except warming a pew. Why not get your hands dirty? Why not get involved and find out what is really going on? Or better yet, stay away. With your heart attitude you would be nothing but a boil on the blessed assurance of any pastor.

Or their greatest asset...... Why do you think it takes a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall? Rather what you want is for the sheepele to keep propping up a dieing church till the money runs out..... thats genius

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Besides, I stated this in the 1st post.....

....Im told by the trustees is the Pastor is really a contractor with the duties of conducting Sunday services & visiting with the sick.

So he does nothing more. So he isnt totally invested in the church......he is as NJ would title him, an at will contractor.

Before that, he was a motivational speaker. So since I got to take a peak at their balance sheets & budget & speak to the trustees & the elders & deacons it is apparent that he can find another gig at any time & probably would if a better deal came along. And if that is so then why the high salary? It was negotiated at a time when the church was chuging along with a pastor that took retirement after 20 years service & he had built the church up & his salary was higher due to his do-diligence. The economy in 2005 was much better also & everyone was bringing down a decent income. Also more people where in the church at the time.

Well with the economy taking a nose dive & with many of the people leaving, the church doesnt have those big fat checks coming in. Honestly they feel stuck & this guy isnt backing off his salary level. Nor is he willing to do Sunday School teaching, Bible Study teaching etc. That is handled by members of the church on a gratis basis. There is other monkey business going on but I wont make light of it.

Performance though is key & in the secular world where I am from, it's the only thing that counts. Thats why I asked for parameters to evaluate the situation. I should be able to do that if I am considering this place as a church home. And I also understand that performance is more than the "bottom line". Does he as a true pastor teach them, does he go out to the flock, does he care about the sheep & can he do that as an at will contractor? Hmmmm....honestly haven't been around long enough to see changed lives. I have seen church members schooling one another though & thats encouraging. However its not the Pastor doing it.

Lastly, I have always felt that healthy criticism .....even dissent & conflict are necessary in running any organization (church included) & without them there can be no understanding. And without understanding, there are only wrong decisions. True I'm not there long enough but I'm not stupid either. The body of the church presently is in a dont rock the boat mode......they are also very cash strapped & that problem is only going to get bigger in time.

Now I have a decision to make here, one that I will make only after I synthesize all the information together & have complete understanding to the direction this church is taking. Then I will either commit or not. Thats how I roll. Thank you all for your participation. :thumbs:

 

[saturneptune]

Or their greatest asset...... Why do you think it takes a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall? Rather what you want is for the sheepele to keep propping up a dieing church till the money runs out..... thats genius

Hey brother,

We have a similar situation in our local church right now. We have an interim pastor that is doing a wonderful job and a search committee that is trying to find the Pastor God has to lead us. In fact, my wife is on the committee, as is brother Tom who posts here. They have quite as task. We are a small church, and an aging church. I am 61, and am considered one of the younger members. Ages 15-55 or 60 are practically non-existent. Our tithes and offerings keep dropping, yet, it is the desire of the congregation to have a full time pastor vs a bivocational pastor. Another problem that presents itself is resistance to changes we need to make, such as type of music and other areas. We have to realize that gray hair is not a requirement for pastor, and that a full time pastor requires a full time salary to raise his family and live. This next person is going to have to think outside the box from the past. Most of our members, being in their 80s and 90s, were around during our last disfellowship of a married couple for dancing with each other. I did not believe the story when it was first told to me years ago, until I read the minutes. I think you brought out another point we have to change on. It is everybody's job to visit the sick, knock on doors to tell others about Jesus, and other ministries everyone thinks the pastor and deacons should do alone.

Our church ran in the 600s in the 60s and 70s, but split over a new building project shortly after I started attending. We have been losing ground ever since. Both my wife and I have participated in all of the ministries. My idea is I am going to let this process have a chance to effect a change, and if it does not, we will be going somewhere else.

Anyway, good insight into the subject.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hey brother,

We have a similar situation in our local church right now. We have an interim pastor that is doing a wonderful job and a search committee that is trying to find the Pastor God has to lead us. In fact, my wife is on the committee, as is brother Tom who posts here. They have quite as task. We are a small church, and an aging church. I am 61, and am considered one of the younger members. Ages 15-55 or 60 are practically non-existent. Our tithes and offerings keep dropping, yet, it is the desire of the congregation to have a full time pastor vs a bivocational pastor. Another problem that presents itself is resistance to changes we need to make, such as type of music and other areas. We have to realize that gray hair is not a requirement for pastor, and that a full time pastor requires a full time salary to raise his family and live. This next person is going to have to think outside the box from the past. Most of our members, being in their 80s and 90s, were around during our last disfellowship of a married couple for dancing with each other. I did not believe the story when it was first told to me years ago, until I read the minutes. I think you brought out another point we have to change on. It is everybody's job to visit the sick, knock on doors to tell others about Jesus, and other ministries everyone thinks the pastor and deacons should do alone.

Our church ran in the 600s in the 60s and 70s, but split over a new building project shortly after I started attending. We have been losing ground ever since. Both my wife and I have participated in all of the ministries. My idea is I am going to let this process have a chance to effect a change, and if it does not, we will be going somewhere else.

Anyway, good insight into the subject.

Isn't there tons of SBC pastors willing to take jobs (anywhere south of NJ & PA? Note: Im really completely ignorant of the SBC as an organization.....I know, every church is independent ....but....

 

[saturneptune]

Isn't there tons of SBC pastors willing to take jobs (anywhere south of NJ & PA? Note: Im really completely ignorant of the SBC as an organization.....I know, every church is independent ....but....

I am not on the committee, but believe there is six or seven resumes we are looking at. We are pretty much SBC in name only. We follow a very conservative agenda. Also, we march to the beat of a different drummer when it comes to missionaries. We tend to give to missionaries we feel the Lord has lead us to support, not the ones on the sanctioned SBC list.

For example, a few months ago, we had a visit from a missionary in Tanzania that touched everyone's heart. This man not only spread the Good News to an impoverished country, he runs day schools for hundreds of children, provides them with a good education, breakfast, lunch, and basic medical care for no cost on their part. The country is extremely depressed, and he is like an oasis in a desert. Anyway, I have never seen a man of such faith. One of the members of our congregation asked him how much it costs to feed these kids daily. He did not even comprehend the question, as he relies totally on the Lord. To make a long story short, my wife has started a fund raising drive for him and his school. I think a little money makes a big difference in their lives. This is an example of a non SBC ministry.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

I hear what sag is saying about a non-member or recent member not having the historical perspective to make judgments about salary, but sometimes the perspective inside the church is skewed and you need an fresh view. As an interim pastor I have provided that to several search committees over the years. Just because it’s always been done that way does not mean it has to continue.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I hear what sag is saying about a non-member or recent member not having the historical perspective to make judgments about salary, but sometimes the perspective inside the church is skewed and you need an fresh view. As an interim pastor I have provided that to several search committees over the years. Just because it’s always been done that way does not mean it has to continue.

Yup...that would be a other item to evaluate. How willing are they willing to listen to suggestions from recent members who will be looked at as outsiders. Are they open minded & are they flexible.

 

[saturneptune]

I hear what sag is saying about a non-member or recent member not having the historical perspective to make judgments about salary, but sometimes the perspective inside the church is skewed and you need an fresh view. As an interim pastor I have provided that to several search committees over the years. Just because it’s always been done that way does not mean it has to continue.

Good words. Sometimes, if say the older generation is so set in their ways, change is hopeless, the church has to move forward and basically leave them alone. Much needs to change where I worship. In the Sunday School, the start time has become meaningless. Sunday School is suppose to start at 9:30 and folks wonder in from that time to 10:15. Some wander the halls, and some sit in the Sunday School room and talk. In the past whenever the pastor or I has tried to tackle it, the problem becomes worse. This is the type of attitude that is going to have to cease, as this is a place of worship, not a socialite center.

I am the first one to admit that I like music from the Baptist hymnal. However, that does not mean that I am against all attempts to bring in contemporary music, with the praise bands, screens, and different styles. There is nothing wrong with it, and if our church is going to survive, they are going to have to buy calendars that say 2014, not 1955. Listening to the words of some of their music, they praise and worship the Lord as much as the words from the Baptist hymnal. Some of the older generation, which I am about to enter, act like the stanzas are Inspired from the Holy Spirit.

Another thing that has got to change is that we, as a congregation, have got to stop looking inward and turn our noses 180 around, and look outward, with open arms. I try to picture how a person feels just visiting, and the last impression we should make is that we are a clique protecting our comfort zone.

In a church, there should be no cliques or comfort zones for that matter. A bunch of people in a comfort zone never grow spiritually. And finally, I think this was mentioned before, all members have got to realize that all ministries need help and they are the ones that make them happen. I once gave a Wednesday night Bible study on serving the Lord. A common question that was always asked was "why didn't the pastor come see me?" So, my response to them was, "how often do you visit the sick in the hospital?" Then, there was always those that thought the van was too early or too late to pick them up, so the obvious question was "when you were young, how long did you drive the van?" The one that always drove me up the wall, was pew sitters commenting like "look at these empty pews, I do not know what we are going to do?" But when the Pastor announced that visitation would be at 10 am Sunday, three or four of us would show up, including the pastor. The pastor is not a one man show.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Good words. Sometimes, if say the older generation is so set in their ways, change is hopeless, the church has to move forward and basically leave them alone. Much needs to change where I worship. In the Sunday School, the start time has become meaningless. Sunday School is suppose to start at 9:30 and folks wonder in from that time to 10:15. Some wander the halls, and some sit in the Sunday School room and talk. In the past whenever the pastor or I has tried to tackle it, the problem becomes worse. This is the type of attitude that is going to have to cease, as this is a place of worship, not a socialite center.

I am the first one to admit that I like music from the Baptist hymnal. However, that does not mean that I am against all attempts to bring in contemporary music, with the praise bands, screens, and different styles. There is nothing wrong with it, and if our church is going to survive, they are going to have to buy calendars that say 2014, not 1955. Listening to the words of some of their music, they praise and worship the Lord as much as the words from the Baptist hymnal. Some of the older generation, which I am about to enter, act like the stanzas are Inspired from the Holy Spirit.

Another thing that has got to change is that we, as a congregation, have got to stop looking inward and turn our noses 180 around, and look outward, with open arms. I try to picture how a person feels just visiting, and the last impression we should make is that we are a clique protecting our comfort zone.

In a church, there should be no cliques or comfort zones for that matter. A bunch of people in a comfort zone never grow spiritually. And finally, I think this was mentioned before, all members have got to realize that all ministries need help and they are the ones that make them happen. I once gave a Wednesday night Bible study on serving the Lord. A common question that was always asked was "why didn't the pastor come see me?" So, my response to them was, "how often do you visit the sick in the hospital?" Then, there was always those that thought the van was too early or too late to pick them up, so the obvious question was "when you were young, how long did you drive the van?" The one that always drove me up the wall, was pew sitters commenting like "look at these empty pews, I do not know what we are going to do?" But when the Pastor announced that visitation would be at 10 am Sunday, three or four of us would show up, including the pastor. The pastor is not a one man show.

What is the adverage Church life expectancy of the Pastor per your experience.

 

[Luke2427]

I really appreciate you. Thank you

Get a room, fellas! This is a debate site- not a place for insecure people to prop each other up through inundating each other with silly and unfounded affirmations. If you are that desperate to affirm and beg for affirmation a debate site is the last place you should go.

Take heed to your own words. The above post was totally uncalled for.

This is a debate site.

Not a smart alek site.

Not a "Look how cute I can be site."

Not a "drive-by post" site.

A debate site.

To debate means to engage with one another's arguments until you can't.

 

[Luke2427]

Bingo! But we have ways of dealing with folks like him who sow discord and are busy bodies. It's Biblical. It would be time for him and his to go elsewhere. :thumbs:

Right.

Nobody here is for pastors getting rich off of the fleecing of God's people.

But this mess about pastors not being worth what they get paid is utter bunk that could only come from the keyboard of a man who is invincibly ignorant of the burden a good pastor carries.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Get a room, fellas!

Nobody here is from Frisco???? I do hear they do strange things with hogs in Mississippi though!:laugh:

Reminds me of my Governor actually. Have a donut.

 

[Luke2427]

You get that by Word of Knowledge imparted to you by somebody like Benny Hinn?



I'm sure your "flock" appreciates being fleeced so that you can further your "vision"

This is further proof that you don't have the first inkling of an idea of what you are talking about.

There may not be a poster on this entire site who is more polar opposite from Benny Hinn. There are several who stand alongside me, no doubt- but few if any are more different from him than me.

I am a rabid cessationist- I really am. I think continuationism is one of the greatest blights on Christianity in our lifetime.

I am a hard determinist supralapsarian- the farthest you can get from an Arminian Charismatic.

You literally could not be more wrong about who I am.

And I'll tell you, that is the kind of discernment (or rather severe deficiency of discernment) that drives your erroneous thinking on pastors and their salaries.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Right.

Nobody here is for pastors getting rich off of the fleecing of God's people.

But this mess about pastors not being worth what they get paid is utter bunk that could only come from the keyboard of a man who is invincibly ignorant of the burden a good pastor carries.

Oh your BURDENED now. How burdened are you? shall we put you on the prayer chain Pastor? Ahhhhhhh. :tear:

Eat a donut----be happy! :laugh:

 

[Rippon]

Oh your BURDENED now. How burdened are you? shall we put you on the prayer chain Pastor? Ahhhhhhh. :tear:

EWF --just knock it off.