Salvation and sin

[charles_creech78]

The point was "to die in Christ is gain" to put to rest your claim, to die in Christ was a punishment of a "sin unto death", of which you called physical.
I just pointed out that Paul did not consider it a punishment to die. He considered it gain.

So, it ripped apart your theology of "a sin unto death" for a Christian was punishment to that Christian. When in fact according to Paul it is gain.

Verse 24 changes nothing at all.

BBob,

amen brother Bob.

 

[DHK]

The point was "to die in Christ is gain" to put to rest your claim, to die in Christ was a punishment of a "sin unto death", of which you called physical.
I just pointed out that Paul did not consider it a punishment to die. He considered it gain.

So, it ripped apart your theology of "a sin unto death" for a Christian was punishment to that Christian. When in fact according to Paul it is gain.

Verse 24 changes nothing at all.

BBob,

Paul's desire--be in heaven.
God's desrie--serve on earth.

Annanias's desire--pride
His sin--He lied.
His judgment--physical death.

Paul's desire to be in heaven in no way compares to the judgement of God when he killed Annanias and Sapphira because of "their sin unto death."

Paul's desire--to be in heaven.
God's will--to serve on earth.
Corinthinan's sin--abuse of the Lord's Table.
God's Judgement (1Cor.11:30)--Some were sick, weak, and some were dead
Death was a judgement of God, not a reward. It was a sin unto death upon these Corinthians, that is a sin which led to their death as a direct result of God's judgement upon them.

Your quotation of Philippians 1:21-24 is totally out of context.

 

[Brother Bob]

Paul's desire--be in heaven.
God's desrie--serve on earth.

Annanias's desire--pride
His sin--He lied.
His judgment--physical death.

Paul's desire to be in heaven in no way compares to the judgement of God when he killed Annanias and Sapphira because of "their sin unto death."

Paul's desire--to be in heaven.
God's will--to serve on earth.
Corinthinan's sin--abuse of the Lord's Table.
God's Judgement (1Cor.11:30)--Some were sick, weak, and some were dead
Death was a judgement of God, not a reward. It was a sin unto death upon these Corinthians, that is a sin which led to their death as a direct result of God's judgement upon them.

Your quotation of Philippians 1:21-24 is totally out of context.

No Sir; your understanding is completely out of context.

God might take some home to keep them from committing a sin unto death, but not after he committed it.

Do you Sir, not believe to die in Christ is gain?

How do you know that Annanias and Sapphira were "born again Christians.
If they were what was the punishment, if you believe to die in Christ is gain.
Or, do you not believe to die in Christ is gain.

BBob,

 

[charles_creech78]

Paul's desire--be in heaven.
God's desrie--serve on earth.

Annanias's desire--pride
His sin--He lied.
His judgment--physical death.

Paul's desire to be in heaven in no way compares to the judgement of God when he killed Annanias and Sapphira because of "their sin unto death."

Paul's desire--to be in heaven.
God's will--to serve on earth.
Corinthinan's sin--abuse of the Lord's Table.
God's Judgement (1Cor.11:30)--Some were sick, weak, and some were dead
Death was a judgement of God, not a reward. It was a sin unto death upon these Corinthians, that is a sin which led to their death as a direct result of God's judgement upon them.

Your quotation of Philippians 1:21-24 is totally out of context.

Here I finished the scripture for you DHK.1co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

1co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

 

[Outsider]

I agree with you, putting anything before the Lord is idolatry

Any of you ever done this?

 

[charles_creech78]

Any of you ever done this?

I have but thanks be to God he corrected me on it.raying:

 

[Brother Bob]

Any of you ever done this?

I sure don't think so, The Lord is my life, since salvation. I know I did before being saved.

BBob,

 

[Outsider]

I have but thanks be to God he corrected me on it.

Thanks for answering brother Charles.
Good talking to you again.

So, do you think you are capable of ever doing it again?

 

[charles_creech78]

Thanks for answering brother Charles.
Good talking to you again.

So, do you think you are capable of ever doing it again?

no. no. no.

 

[Outsider]

So, do you think you are capable of ever doing it again?

no. no. no.

ok, thanks for answering.

You too Bob,

 

[DHK]

Here I finished the scripture for you DHK.1co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

1co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

You have finished nothing and demonstrated nothing. What was your purpose? You didn't explain why you posted two extra verses, neither explained their context. Anyone can copy and paste verses. To be blunt, brother, that simply shows naivete and lack of knowledge concerning the Bible if you are unwilling to post any knowledge or explanation of the verses that you post. Any "dummy" can do that. So kindly tell me your purpose in doing so.

 

[charles_creech78]

You have finished nothing and demonstrated nothing. What was your purpose? You didn't explain why you posted two extra verses, neither explained their context. Anyone can copy and paste verses. To be blunt, brother, that simply shows naivete and lack of knowledge concerning the Bible if you are unwilling to post any knowledge or explanation of the verses that you post. Any "dummy" can do that. So kindly tell me your purpose in doing so.

You know what DHK you are so hateful. You sit on here and Judge everyone that don't agree with you and you change everthing they say to make them look bad. You know why I put the other scriptures up. Go back a read it. It says what it says. I was just helping you finish it just like you told Brother Bob why does he ignore the rest of the scripture but you do the same thing. The verse you put up there don't make any since with out the rest. Oh ya I forgot you are smart and I'm a dummy. But the best thing i can do is pray for you or am I to dum to do that.

 

[DHK]

No Sir; your understanding is completely out of context.

God might take some home to keep them from committing a sin unto death, but not after he committed it.

A sin unto death is exactly what it says it is--A sin which causes death. That isn't hard to understand. In Annanias and Sapphira's case it was lying. In the Corinthians' case it was abuse of the Lord's Table. With others it may be some other sin or sinful lifestyle. You cannot dictate to God how he judges people. You cannot force your theology on God. He will not be boxed in and confined or limited by your rules and limitations that you have invented in your own theology. "And sin when it is finished brings forth death." God judges sin; at times with some people more severly than with others. Death is often punishment.
God killed Moses and buried him. That was punishment. He was not allowed to enter in the promised land. He had to die instead even though he knew he "would be with the Lord." It was considered punishment for him to die early and not enter the promise land but only to see it from a distance.

Do you Sir, not believe to die in Christ is gain?

I do not believe that death is an escape route from this life as long as Christ has something for us to do, whether it be in a nursing home, an Islamic third world nation, the cold Arctic, the hot Sahara, or right where we are. As long as God gives me life on this earth, he has a purpose for me in serving Him and in serving others. "To die in Christ" is not an escape route from the pain of this world.

You do not have "the right to die" clause in your hand.
Your body is not your own (1Cor.6:19,20).
There is no such teaching in the Bible as "pulling the plug."
In fact the Bible teaches:

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Christ alone has the key of death. He determines the hour of our death and rightly so. To take that responsibility upon ourself is sin. When he wants us to die and come home he will bring us home. He doesn't need our help.

How do you know that Annanias and Sapphira were "born again Christians.

There is nothing to indicate that they were not. They lied to the Holy Spirit. An unsaved person wouldn't even know who the Holy Spirit was, much less how to lie to Him.

If they were what was the punishment, if you believe to die in Christ is gain.

Death is a form of punishment. Moses was punished by death. Many people are punished by death. Long life is promised to those who honor their parents. In contrast disobedience will lead to a shortened life or death, even for the Christian. "And sin when it is finished bringeth forth death." Let the Bible speak for itself. Paul's desire was never to leave this earth earlier than his time. You take that passage totally out of its context. You are actually promoting it to advocate suicide, i.e., if to be with Christ is gain, then lets get life over with now, and get to Heaven ASAP! Right? That is sure what it sounds like Bob.

 

[DHK]

You know what DHK you are so hateful. You sit on here and Judge everyone that don't agree with you and you change everthing they say to make them look bad. You know why I put the other scriptures up. Go back a read it. It says what it says. I was just helping you finish it just like you told Brother Bob why does he ignore the rest of the scripture but you do the same thing. The verse you put up there don't make any since with out the rest. Oh ya I forgot you are smart and I'm a dummy. But the best thing i can do is pray for you or am I to dum to do that.

I am not being hateful. I kindly asked you to tell me the purpose of pasting two more verses on the board without any explanation. I explained the meaning of 1Cor.11:30. Then you added verses 31 and 32 as if you were trying to "finish" something. But you never explained anything.

What I said: Any "dummy" can do that, was not a reference to you being a dummy. That is why I put the word in quotes. What I am saying is that it is not very difficult for a person to copy and paste verses and post them on this board. My children can do that. But they may not have the sense to explain what they have posted. So I am asking to kindly give me your purpose in posting those two verses. I explained already the meaning of verse 30. What was your intent on adding the next two verses. I am confused. I don't understand what you are driving at. Please explain.
Or if you wish, I will explain that entire passage to you.

 

[Brother Bob]

A sin unto death is exactly what it says it is--A sin which causes death. That isn't hard to understand. In Annanias and Sapphira's case it was lying. In the Corinthians' case it was abuse of the Lord's Table. With others it may be some other sin or sinful lifestyle. You cannot dictate to God how he judges people. You cannot force your theology on God. He will not be boxed in and confined or limited by your rules and limitations that you have invented in your own theology. "And sin when it is finished brings forth death." God judges sin; at times with some people more severly than with others. Death is often punishment.
God killed Moses and buried him. That was punishment. He was not allowed to enter in the promised land. He had to die instead even though he knew he "would be with the Lord." It was considered punishment for him to die early and not enter the promise land but only to see it from a distance.

I am sure it grieved him while he was alive, not to enter the promised land, but wasn't he one of them with the Lord on the mount?

Luk 9:33And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.


Don't look like punishment to me.

I do not believe that death is an escape route from this life as long as Christ has something for us to do, whether it be in a nursing home, an Islamic third world nation, the cold Arctic, the hot Sahara, or right where we are. As long as God gives me life on this earth, he has a purpose for me in serving Him and in serving others. "To die in Christ" is not an escape route from the pain of this world.

Then I guess you don't believe to die in Christ is gain. You must believe after death, the Christian is still in pain. I don't. I do believe when the body gets so weak, God gives us a miracle, He lets us die. You can believe what you want.

You do not have "the right to die" clause in your hand.
Your body is not your own (1Cor.6:19,20).
There is no such teaching in the Bible as "pulling the plug."
In fact the Bible teaches:

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Christ alone has the key of death. He determines the hour of our death and rightly so. To take that responsibility upon ourself is sin. When he wants us to die and come home he will bring us home. He doesn't need our help.

You come up with the craziest things. Where did I say, I had the keys to death. I prayed to die once, the Lord would not let me, so don't tell me about death and pain.

There is nothing to indicate that they were not. They lied to the Holy Spirit. An unsaved person wouldn't even know who the Holy Spirit was, much less how to lie to Him.

Nothing to indicated they were either.

Death is a form of punishment. Moses was punished by death. Many people are punished by death. Long life is promised to those who honor their parents. In contrast disobedience will lead to a shortened life or death, even for the Christian. "And sin when it is finished bringeth forth death." Let the Bible speak for itself. Paul's desire was never to leave this earth earlier than his time. You take that passage totally out of its context. You are actually promoting it to advocate suicide, i.e., if to be with Christ is gain, then lets get life over with now, and get to Heaven ASAP! Right? That is sure what it sounds like Bob.
It hard to answer you when you go off on these wild escapades.

How do you punish after death. I know there is a sting of death, that all men will face, but tell me what is the punishment for the saved, if to die in Christ is gain.

Again, I guess you do not believe scripture that to die in Christ is gain.


Luk 9:33And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.



Rev 14:
13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Phil 1:
21: For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22: But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23: For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:


1Th 4:13¶But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.





BBob,

 

[DHK]

Death is a form of punishment. Moses was punished by death. Many people are punished by death. Long life is promised to those who honor their parents. In contrast disobedience will lead to a shortened life or death, even for the Christian. "And sin when it is finished bringeth forth death." Let the Bible speak for itself. Paul's desire was never to leave this earth earlier than his time. You take that passage totally out of its context. You are actually promoting it to advocate suicide, i.e., if to be with Christ is gain, then lets get life over with now, and get to Heaven ASAP! Right? That is sure what it sounds like Bob.

It hard to answer you

You sure have a knack for pulling Scripture out of its context and making it say what you want it to say--forcing your own interpretation into it. Yes it is hard to answer the Scriptures when you let them speak for themselves. You are inadvertently advocating a very worldly ungodly attitude in this wicked life. "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die." Your emphasis is on the tomorrow. Get life over quickly; avoid the pain. Never mind trying to live out your life for Christ and win others for him; just get it over with so you can be with Christ. Clearly an ungodly and selfish view of life!

However, we shall all give account of ourselves to Christ.

 

[Brother Bob]

You sure have a knack for pulling Scripture out of its context and making it say what you want it to say--forcing your own interpretation into it. Yes it is hard to answer the Scriptures when you let them speak for themselves. You are inadvertently advocating a very worldly ungodly attitude in this wicked life. "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die." Your emphasis is on the tomorrow. Get life over quickly; avoid the pain. Never mind trying to live out your life for Christ and win others for him; just get it over with so you can be with Christ. Clearly an ungodly and selfish view of life!

However, we shall all give account of ourselves to Christ.

I see you had to pick out a few words to make it look like something I did not say.
I said "it is hard to answer you". You go off on a wild rampage of which it is very hard to understand where you got your material and understanding.

No one has said they are in a hurry to leave and I pray you never get to the point where pain and suffering is almost more than you can bear. You are a harsh man DHK; you call people hypocrits, liars, dumb, naive and say it is all in the "love of God". Don't blame God for your misgivings, they are yours and yours alone.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

I see you had to pick out a few words to make it look like something I did not say.
BBob,

Please read more carefully. I only quoted six words of yours. "It is hard to answer you." The rest were my words which you had quoted.

 

[skypair]

It is a desire of every Christian to be perfect in the flesh in this life and we strive to do so. It is impossible for us to reach that "entire" sanctification, because of a corruptable flesh, that will not receive change to perfection until the resurrection.

Yet according to you we won't be saved if we don't reach a certain level of sanctification or if we sin certain sins, Bob. I am just pointing out to you that that is wrong as it can be.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Yet according to you we won't be saved if we don't reach a certain level of sanctification or if we sin certain sins, Bob. I am just pointing out to you that that is wrong as it can be.

skypair

Ha, sneaky arn't you, but you are wrong as you can be. I was wondering, why is this person who does not care for me, cozying up to me? Now, the truth comes out. Truth will set you free. You must be "born again", which is the inward man. The stronger man comes in and binds the strong man and cast him out. Then you are no longer your own keeper, but kept by the power of God
The steps of a good man are ordered of the Lord.
We are not of them who draw back into perdition.
The sins we speak of are sins unto death, of which God does not allow us to commit.
I believe in a strong God and a weak devil when it comes to God's children.
Father, I have lost none, saving the son of perdition or devil.
If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Many confess me with their mouths, but their hearts are far from me.
As many as are LED by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.
If these things be in you, you shall never fall.
Whosoever you lend your members you are the servant thereof.
You shall know a tree by the fruit it bears.

and on and on.

1Cr 9:27But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

I am interested in what you fellows tell new converts. Hey, got you covered, don't worry about it.

BBob,


1 John 1:
6: And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
7: For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8: Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9: Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10: If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


Have you ever wondered why John the Baptist didn't tell the King to get saved, then it would be lawful for him to have his brother's Phillips wife??? Instead of losing his head?