Salvation by any other name.....

[loDebar]

So, because "from the foundation of the world" is used to describe the eternality of other things, it makes it impossible for the Lamb to have been slain from the foundation of the world, so Revelation 13:8 is a lie?

your mistake , the verse does not say what you suppose,

 

[TCassidy]

your mistake , the verse does not say what you suppose,

The verse says what it says. "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Now, do you have a quote where I said something humanistic, or are you prepared to apologize?

The clock is ticking.

 

[TCassidy]

They progressively knew of A Messiah as promised. Some did not. They were introduced to Him later, personally

So only people who have met Christ in person, face to face, are saved? So you are saying that we are all lost because we have never known Christ personally?

Again, do you have a quote where I said something humanistic, or are you prepared to apologize?

The clock is ticking.

 

[Yeshua1]

We are not saved at the hope of a coming Messiah, We are saved by a personal relationship with The faith in a coming Messiah was accounted for righteousness, the Jesus was shown to them after the Crucifixion. They were complete. Heb 11

They were in the old Covenant relationship with God, as they had hope and faith in what God had revealed to them at their time.

 

[loDebar]

Any thing that places the human condition over the spiritual is basically humanistic. Jesus warned against this when He said your eye offend you, This position that places importance of what happens as a human verses what seems to happen as a spirit. is humanistic. [Personal attack edited.] So doctrine that the OT saints DID know completely as we do or that there was special knowledge shown to them is false. This is doctrine to fit a the understanding of a supposed truth rather than accepting what the scripture and teaching what the scripture says , even if we do not fully understand.

You have pointed out some due to the true translation as your posts on Gen 1

 

[loDebar]

They were in the old Covenant relationship with God, as they had hope and faith in what God had revealed to them at their time.

• A different way to heaven? , rather than a individual relationship with Jesus, This does not fit the character of God

 

[Yeshua1]

• A different way to heaven? , rather than a individual relationship with Jesus, This does not fit the character of God

There is only 1 way to heaven, by the Cross of Christ, but the OT saints believed in what God had revealed to them in that Covenant, which was not the full progressive revelation of say Romans!

 

[loDebar]

So only people who have met Christ in person, face to face, are saved? So you are saying that we are all lost because we have never known Christ personally?

Again, do you have a quote where I said something humanistic, or are you prepared to apologize?

The clock is ticking.

missed the first part, not personally like Saul but individually as a personal Savior

No , I am saying they were righteous , according ti God but did not have salvation ,we have, until they were complete in Jesus .

Same as after the Crucifixion,

 

[Yeshua1]

missed the first part, not personally like Saul but individually as a personal Savior

No , I am saying they were righteous , according ti God but did not have salvation ,we have, until they were complete in Jesus .

Same as after the Crucifixion,

They were just as "saved" as we now are, but did not experience the full spiritual blessings, such as a direct access to God!

 

[loDebar]

I think this reduces to the difference between Paradise and Heaven.

 

[loDebar]

They were just as "saved" as we now are, but did not experience the full spiritual blessings, such as a direct access to God!

Why did they not have access?

 

[Yeshua1]

the veil was not yet torn, had to go thru priests to get to God.

 

[loDebar]

And when the veil was torn they could. The separation was gone because Jesus was accepted as the proper sacrifice.
They were not in Heaven but Paradise waiting for things to be finished. They could enter Heaven when things happened and the veil was open for man.

Do I recall the veil was 6" ? maybe 4 thick

 

[Yeshua1]

And when the veil was torn they could. The separation was gone because Jesus was accepted as the proper sacrifice.
They were not in Heaven but Paradise waiting for things to be finished. They could enter Heaven when things happened and the veil was open for man.

Do I recall the veil was 6" ? maybe 4 thick

This is where we and TCassidy seem to be disagreeing on, as he sees them going straight into heaven at death, even if OT times.

 

[TCassidy]

until they were complete in Jesus .

What is this "incomplete" Jesus you think they had?

 

[loDebar]

This is where we and TCassidy seem to be disagreeing on, as he sees them going straight into heaven at death, even if OT times.

Yes we after they could not

 

[loDebar]

What is this "incomplete" Jesus you think they had?

Not Jesus. Those who were righteous but not complete. The were made complete when Jesus told them the gospel story just like Cleopas

 

[TCassidy]

Any thing that places the human condition over the spiritual is basically humanistic.

Please post a quote from me where I did that. If you can't, apologize for making things up.

Your position about this thread is that only things that happen as an alive human are possibles.

Again, you are making up falsehoods. Quote a post by me where I ever said any such thing. If you can't, apologize for making things up.

So doctrine that the OT saints DID know completely as we do or that there was special knowledge shown to them is false.

Quote me ever saying the OT saints knew completely as we do, or that they were given special knowledge. If you can't, apologize for making things up.

The clock is ticking.

 

[TCassidy]

Not Jesus.

Then who saved them? Is that another savior?

Those who were righteous but not complete.

If Christ's Righteousness, which He imputes to us, is not complete then Christ failed in His ministry of Sacrifice.

The were made complete when Jesus told them the gospel story just like Cleopas

Cleopas didn't recognize the resurrected Jesus. It had nothing to do with him have incomplete salvation.

By the way. I am still waiting for your quotes or your apology.

The clock is ticking.

 

[loDebar]

Please post a quote from me where I did that. If you can't, apologize for making things up.

Again, you are making up falsehoods. Quote a post by me where I ever said any such thing. If you can't, apologize for making things up.

Quote me ever saying the OT saints knew completely as we do, or that they were given special knowledge. If you can't, apologize for making things up.

The clock is ticking.

It is a general bias, the only thing in these threads is declsri f that this life is all that matters, especially for their saints