Featured Sanctification by God's Sovereign Grace as Opposed to "Lordship Salvation"

That is true and would be a valid criticism of LS except for the fact that that very thing is dealt with and warned about. The Puritans and Spurgeon dealt with that extensively. You have to keep in mind the modern LS guys like Washer and MacArthur really are dealing specifically with the idea of going forward and getting saved and NOT having any change in life or attitude. No, you can't reverse the argument and still expect it to be of use.

I could say "If you cannot pass a stress test that is proof that you have a serious heart problem." It is NOT true to say "If you do pass a stress test if means for sure you DON'T have a serious heart problem."

It might be close. I could also say you are close to antinomianism. I could say you are declaring yourself elect, based on nothing but your thinking you are so, while ignoring all the verses that warn you about the deceitfulness of the human heart. And then you try to hold others back who may be in genuine trouble because they bought into a false system unknown in Christianity for most of it's history.

 

For all that is holy, reject it

 

Or Solomon. Or that entire generation, Moses and Aaron included, redeemed from the house of bondage that turned back in their hearts to Egypt.

Spot on.

 

Ah good point

 

How about King David and his relationship with Bathsheba?

 

Very well expressed!

 

So do I. I am very careful to say I cannot declare anyone saved or unsaved.

The Billy Graham crusade came to KC when I was in seminary and several of the students, not me, volunteered to counsel people who came forward.

In the training put on by BGC, they were told to ask the person if they had ever made a profession of faith in Jesus. If they say they had already made a profession of faith, they were to assure them they were already saved and should join a local church.

I find that, frankly, appalling. That is pretending to know that someone is saved based on “repeat after me and say this prayer….”

Peace to you

 

I don't believe in "Lordship Salvation", as it was aptly described in the quote, and yes, John Wesley was wrong about that, but the pejorative phrase "such as heretics like John Wesley" is cringe-inducing.
I would gladly trade-in half my correct doctrines to be as spiritual a man as John Wesley was.

 

Does no change in life, attitude, behavior carry with it any expectation of being saved?

Do you believe that if a person has made a profession of faith, they should have assurance of salvation even if they are living in open rebellion with God? How about if they openly deny Jesus is Lord and God.

I have heard people say that if you have said the “sinners prayer”, it does not matter what you believe or how you act, you are saved and going to heaven, though it may be by the skin of your teeth.

That is horrifying to me. It teaches people to resist the convicting work of God Holy Spirit. It teaches people to rely on what they have said at some point in the past, rather rely on God Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into all truth, especially concerning our hope in Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

peace to you

 

I agree… it’s appalling. Brother it’s all a factor of modern religion. My theological brethren are just happy to be children of God, without all the slight - of - hand tricks on display.

But I remember back to the early days of my brothers graduation from a Bible School in Pennsylvania. This kid became the biggest pest to people, particularly to his own family. I musta been a big challenge to him being a lapsed Catholic and all… to him, living in sin. He sat out there on my poach until 2am telling me that all I had to do to be saved was profess my belief in Christ as my lord & savior. I finally acquiesced to get rid of him. Didn’t do anything to change me.

 

I am inclined to think that those "people" would agree as fast as you would that simply saying a prayer, as if it were a magic incantation, is of no avail unto salvation. I suspect those "people" would qualify their statement as assuming that the person believed the true gospel (of salvation by faith without works) in their heart.

Everyone agrees that there are fakes. Everyone agrees that there ought to be some evidential fruit, though we disagree on the metrics.

At least most so-called "easy believism" defenders would qualify their statement. It is therefore unjust not to represent them correctly.

If your encounters were with the kind who really believe that the heart does not count, only the prayer, that still would not be representative of the general position.

 

Even Owen said that when you come to Christ initially, your concern is with Christ in the office of priest. You are coming to be saved by His shed blood. And it really is that simple, and even easy. But Owen also said that a person who refuses Christ as Lord cannot have him as savior. There is a difference. The only valid criticism of LS I've heard is that it is impossible to know all that it means to have him as Lord. You may not know much at all in fact. So you just come, with the only qualification being that you recognize your need. But the refusal to go on in sanctification or a type of "say a prayer" incantation and then a life with no change shows a person who was not born again. You do not come with a perfection in attitude and the LS guys don't ask that. They are saying that there are more Biblical tests for someone who might be interested in whether they are saved than just faith in your faith or whether your mental exercise was sufficient. And the Bible agrees with them, not you all. Sorry.

 

Quite true.

 

I’m inclined to believe that all this modern religion stuff is just fear based motivation… and we can stand back and observe how the younger generations are responding to it. Where is Europe today and where is America going? They are closing churches in the hundreds in my neighborhoods with no promises of regeneration. What good are the tactics being used to influence anybody, not the atheists, not the nones etc.

 

I have been convinced that the Old School Baptists are quite biblical and sincere in their approach to Their Walk with Christ especially in stressing eternal and temporal salvation grids. I must again emphasize that there are “REAL, VITAL differences” and that we are experiencing a “revival of the truth” among Primitive Old School Baptist churches in these days of diminishing Christian Churches. And I fully believe that these vital differences will lead the way back to growth through Grace and Gods Sovereignty.

 

Yes and it’s going to have to Sadder before it can get Better!