Satan Crushed Shortly

[Yeshua1]

Why don't I also help the school of the prophets find the body of Elijah while I am at it?

Jesus returning will end all history as we now know it, as will be Him here sitting up His Kingdom!

 

[robycop3]

Patiently waiting for answers I have already given? I am not going to repeat myself.

And every one of those answers was incorrect.

Simple FACTS are:

Satan is NOT yet crushed; the undeniable proof is the prevalence of sin.

Preterism, both full and partial, is false. The events prets SAY have already occurred, simply have NOT yet occurred. No getting around that fact.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You are not taking God at His word. Acts 1:11 blows Hyper-preterism out of the water as I have shown numerous times.

Yes, you have quoted it, but you have missed the point of that passage. He was to come in like manner. "In the clouds". That is the like manner. I challenge anyone to do a study of "cloud" in the Bible. It would be very enlightening.

The point is that it is the 'same Jesus.' It is the same One who left that will return 'in like manner.' So first of all, it is not an invisible or 'spiritual' Jesus. 'Behold My hands and My feet that it is I Myself. handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have' (Luke 24:39). It is this Jesus who left earth, and people watched Him leave: '.....While they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight' (Acts 1:10). They saw Him leave until the cloud received Him. He will return in like manner; people saw Him go; people will see Him return. He will be invisible until the cloud reveals Him; then 'Every eye will see Him.....' The meaning of these verses is as plain as the nose on your face. Christ is coming and when He comes, everyone is going to know about it.

I don't deny the coming of the Lord. But it already happened. Christ is with us now as our Priest-King.

Christ being our Priest-King didn't start in AD 70. He was our priest when He offered the one perfect acceptable sacrifice of Himself for sin. He was King from before time began, but revealed to us in His incarnation (e.g. John 1:49). And He was 'with us' long before AD 70 (Matthew 28:20).

Look, Tom, I don't have anything personal against you at all; I'm sure you're a lovely fellow. But your eschatology has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese. And it does matter, because you are denying the future bodily Return of Christ, which sets you outside the realm of orthodoxy, and when you try and spread your errors you are teaching people to ignore the clear warning of our Lord: "Watch, therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming -- in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster or in the morning -- lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And what I say to you, I say to all' (Mark 13:35-37). This word was not only spoken for the benefit of the disciples who were present, almost all of whom would have been dead by AD 70 anyway; no, it is spoken to 'all,' to us who read the words today. We are to live as if Christ might come this very day, and to be ready to greet Him. To tell new Christians that He isn't coming at all is a desperate wickedness. I'm sure you're sincere, but you're sincerely wrong and are spreading your errors Just as Paul warned the Thessalonians (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2).

 

[robycop3]

The point is that it is the 'same Jesus.' It is the same One who left that will return 'in like manner.' So first of all, it is not an invisible or 'spiritual' Jesus. 'Behold My hands and My feet that it is I Myself. handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have' (Luke 24:39). It is this Jesus who left earth, and people watched Him leave: '.....While they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight' (Acts 1:10). They saw Him leave until the cloud received Him. He will return in like manner; people saw Him go; people will see Him return. He will be invisible until the cloud reveals Him; then 'Every eye will see Him.....' The meaning of these verses is as plain as the nose on your face. Christ is coming and when He comes, everyone is going to know about it.

Christ being our Priest-King didn't start in AD 70. He was our priest when He offered the one perfect acceptable sacrifice of Himself for sin. He was King from before time began, but revealed to us in His incarnation (e.g. John 1:49). And He was 'with us' long before AD 70 (Matthew 28:20).

Look, Tom, I don't have anything personal against you at all; I'm sure you're a lovely fellow. But your eschatology has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese. And it does matter, because you are denying the future bodily Return of Christ, which sets you outside the realm of orthodoxy, and when you try and spread your errors you are teaching people to ignore the clear warning of our Lord: "Watch, therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming -- in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster or in the morning -- lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And what I say to you, I say to all' (Mark 13:35-37). This word was not only spoken for the benefit of the disciples who were present, almost all of whom would have been dead by AD 70 anyway; no, it is spoken to 'all,' to us who read the words today. We are to live as if Christ might come this very day, and to be ready to greet Him. To tell new Christians that He isn't coming at all is a desperate wickedness. I'm sure you're sincere, but you're sincerely wrong and are spreading your errors Just as Paul warned the Thessalonians (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2).

When Jesus vanished, I'm sure he simply entered the cloud, same as an aircraft does now. Whe witnesses didn't see Him zap to heaven, by whatever means He used. And when he returns, the sky will be cloudless in places, solid overcast in others, partly cloudy in others, same as right now.

When He departed, He appeared as an ordinary man to the witnesses. When He returns, He will be in His full majesty, "in great power & glory", as He said . And according to Rev. 1:7, those in hades, both paradise & torments, will see Him then, according to what He told John. And I believe he will be on a horse..

Preterism ignores Jesus. very words in Matt. 24:29-30, as well as the words of the angel in Revelation. While Jesus is SPIRITUALLY here whenever/wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in His name, He has NOT yet physically, visibly returned yet. And He won't, til the "beast' is in power.

Remember, O preterists, Biblical prophecy MUST be fulfilled EXACTLY, TO THE LETTER. Nothing else is its fulfillment. And when Jesus does return, He will cast the beast & his sidekick the false prophet alive into the lake of fire, destroy his army with His spoken word, & take over the rule of the whole world for 1K years, with Satan being banished during that time.

Now, how near or how far those events are, I cannot tell, but for the first time in history, many signs are being fulfilled, such as the great falling away, the increase in travel & knowledge as never before, the jews readying to build a new temple in Jerusalem, the Jews being a terror to Egypt(Isaiah 19) and the Gospel's being proclaimed to almost the whole world. (There are very few peoples that haven't heard the Gospel now!)

Jesus compared the signs to birth pangs. Now, we all know birth pangs start slowly, then become closer together and more-intense till delivery occurs. That's the way these signs are. But the generation that sees them begin will see ALL of them, including Jesus' return. If we see one man assembling a great empire from the peoples of the old Roman & Holy Roman empires, that'll be a sure sign that our redemption is near!

 

[robycop3]

BTW, Tom, I have nothing against you, either. I realize you've been deceived by some charlatan (s)somewhere. As an amateur historian, with 3 encyclopediae handy,(Britannica, Collier's, World Book), I KNOW there's absolutely NO evidence that any of the eschatological events have yet occurred. If you studied history more-closely, you'd see that for yourself.

 

[asterisktom]

The point is that it is the 'same Jesus.' It is the same One who left that will return 'in like manner.' So first of all, it is not an invisible or 'spiritual' Jesus. 'Behold My hands and My feet that it is I Myself. handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have' (Luke 24:39). It is this Jesus who left earth, and people watched Him leave: '.....While they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight' (Acts 1:10). They saw Him leave until the cloud received Him. He will return in like manner; people saw Him go; people will see Him return. He will be invisible until the cloud reveals Him; then 'Every eye will see Him.....' The meaning of these verses is as plain as the nose on your face. Christ is coming and when He comes, everyone is going to know about it.

Christ being our Priest-King didn't start in AD 70. He was our priest when He offered the one perfect acceptable sacrifice of Himself for sin. He was King from before time began, but revealed to us in His incarnation (e.g. John 1:49). And He was 'with us' long before AD 70 (Matthew 28:20).

Look, Tom, I don't have anything personal against you at all; I'm sure you're a lovely fellow. But your eschatology has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese. And it does matter, because you are denying the future bodily Return of Christ, which sets you outside the realm of orthodoxy, and when you try and spread your errors you are teaching people to ignore the clear warning of our Lord: "Watch, therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming -- in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster or in the morning -- lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And what I say to you, I say to all' (Mark 13:35-37). This word was not only spoken for the benefit of the disciples who were present, almost all of whom would have been dead by AD 70 anyway; no, it is spoken to 'all,' to us who read the words today. We are to live as if Christ might come this very day, and to be ready to greet Him. To tell new Christians that He isn't coming at all is a desperate wickedness. I'm sure you're sincere, but you're sincerely wrong and are spreading your errors Just as Paul warned the Thessalonians (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2).

BTW, Tom, I have nothing against you, either. I realize you've been deceived by some charlatan (s)somewhere. As an amateur historian, with 3 encyclopediae handy,(Britannica, Collier's, World Book), I KNOW there's absolutely NO evidence that any of the eschatological events have yet occurred. If you studied history more-closely, you'd see that for yourself.

I do study history. I taught it for several years. And I am constantly studying it.

But I see no point in repeating myself.
Take care.

 

[asterisktom]

The point is that it is the 'same Jesus.' It is the same One who left that will return 'in like manner.' So first of all, it is not an invisible or 'spiritual' Jesus. 'Behold My hands and My feet that it is I Myself. handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have' (Luke 24:39). It is this Jesus who left earth, and people watched Him leave: '.....While they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight' (Acts 1:10). They saw Him leave until the cloud received Him. He will return in like manner; people saw Him go; people will see Him return. He will be invisible until the cloud reveals Him; then 'Every eye will see Him.....' The meaning of these verses is as plain as the nose on your face.

Was He the same Jesus in the Old Testament? For that matter, at the Transfiguration, were Moses and Elijah the same persons we read about in the Old Testament? I think so. Did they have flesh and bones? I think not.

In Acts 1 you added a phrase that is not in there. The issue is the cloud. The cloud took Him out of their sight They continued gazing to heaven.The angel says he will come back the same way. In,a cloud or with the clouds. Just like other verses describes it. Nothing more is required to fulfill the verse .

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Was He the same Jesus in the Old Testament? For that matter, at the Transfiguration, were Moses and Elijah the same persons we read about in the Old Testament? I think so. Did they have flesh and bones? I think not.

It's not the O.T. Jesus we're talking about. It is 'This Jesus.....' Which one? The one 'who was taken into heaven.' The sam,e one who left is the same one who will return. And just in case there's any doubt, He will return 'In like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.' They saw Him go; they, and/or others, will see Him return. It;s there in the text.

In Acts 1 you added a phrase that is not in there.

No I didn't.

The issue is the cloud. The cloud took Him out of their sight They continued gazing to heaven.The angel says he will come back the same way. In,a cloud or with the clouds. Just like other verses describes it. Nothing more is required to fulfill the verse .

Repeating oneself becomes tedious after a while. 'WHILE THEY WATCHED, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.' They saw Him rise; then a cloud came across, and they couldn't see Him any more. He left visible. He will return in like manner. That they carried on gazing is true (and very understandable), but it doesn't alter the basic fact which is that Acts 1:11 sinks Hyper-preterism without trace.

 

[asterisktom]

It's not the O.T. Jesus we're talking about. It is 'This Jesus.....' Which one? The one 'who was taken into heaven.' The sam,e one who left is the same one who will return. And just in case there's any doubt, He will return 'In like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.' They saw Him go; they, and/or others, will see Him return. It;s there in the text.
No I didn't.

Repeating oneself becomes tedious after a while. 'WHILE THEY WATCHED, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.' They saw Him rise; then a cloud came across, and they couldn't see Him any more. He left visible. He will return in like manner. That they carried on gazing is true (and very understandable), but it doesn't alter the basic fact which is that Acts 1:11 sinks Hyper-preterism without trace.

The purpose of bringing up the OT Jesus is that He did not have a physical body then So "sameness" does not require that He be physical. Neither am I saying that when Jesus came He was invisible, just that He came with the clouds. Whether He was visible or not is somewhat secondary to His nature upon returning.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The purpose of bringing up the OT Jesus is that He did not have a physical body then So "sameness" does not require that He be physical.

It does in Acts 1:11 as I explained. 'This same Jesus' is the one who left. He left in a body. He will return in like manner, i.e. in a body.

Neither am I saying that when Jesus came He was invisible, just that He came with the clouds. Whether He was visible or not is somewhat secondary to His nature upon returning.

If He was visible, how come nobody saw Him? And I tend to think that visibility has rather a lot to do with one's nature.

 

[asterisktom]

It does in Acts 1:11 as I explained. 'This same Jesus' is the one who left. He left in a body. He will return in like manner, i.e. in a body.
If He was visible, how come nobody saw Him? And I tend to think that visibility has rather a lot to do with one's nature.

Once again, "in like manner" much more easily describes how an action happens, not describe the essence of the person or thing.

So you think that Moses and Elijah had physical bodies at the Transfiguration? They were certainly visible. So was Saul at Endor.

Angels were also visible at times, yet they are ministering spirits. Christ said that those who attain the resurrection will be "equal to the angels". And we shall be like Him. Connect the dots.

And how do you know that "nobody saw Him" in AD 70?

 

[MB]

Once again, "in like manner" much more easily describes how an action happens, not describe the essence of the person or thing.

Christ was seen leaving in the clouds. Thomas felt His wounds over 500 people witnessed seeing Christ after the resurrection. If He was Spirit only then what happened to His body. It seems you are twisting it to make seem to support your view.

So you think that Moses and Elijah had physical bodies at the Transfiguration? They were certainly visible. So was Saul at Endor.

The thing with the witch of Endor was a hypnotic event, it wasn't real. Witches still do the same trick. There is nothing real in the occult it;s all imagination and post hypnotic suggestion. Mostly convincing lies. After all the Devil is a master deceiver.

Angels were also visible at times, yet they are ministering spirits. Christ said that those who attain the resurrection will be "equal to the angels". And we shall be like Him. Connect the dots!

Oh no your dot's are blurred. They must be here you did say connect the dots. Sorry I don't see any dot's.
Speaking of angles we will also judge the angles. Just messing with you.

And how do you know that "nobody saw Him" in AD 70?[/QUOTE]
Then what may I ask is the resurrection for? if not to be rejoined with our new bodies.
MB

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Once again, "in like manner" much more easily describes how an action happens, not describe the essence of the person or thing.

So you think that Moses and Elijah had physical bodies at the Transfiguration? They were certainly visible. So was Saul at Endor.

I do not know, and nor do you.

Angels were also visible at times, yet they are ministering spirits. Christ said that those who attain the resurrection will be "equal to the angels". And we shall be like Him. Connect the dots.

The point is that, whatever may have been the state of Moses and Elijah, Christ had a physical body when He left. That is why I quoted Luke 24:39 earlier. It is the same physical Jesus who will return, in the same physical way that He left.

And how do you know that "nobody saw Him" in AD 70?

Boy! You certainly know how to clutch at straws! How do you now that nobody saw Ganesha the Hindu elephant god at Jerusalem in AD 70? Or a pre-incarnate Mohammed?

 

[robycop3]

Thing is, the disciples who saw the transfiguration knew who Moe & Lige were, even though they didn't have pics of them. We don't know how they knew who they were. Maybe they heard Jesus address them by name. Maybe Jesus simply caused them to know.

And nobody saw Jesus on earth in 70 AD cuz He didn't return then.

 

[robycop3]

I do study history. I taught it for several years. And I am constantly studying it.

But I see no point in repeating myself.
Take care.

Yes, you have the right to be wrong and believe nonsense.

But I hope you cease making light of Jesus' future return in favor of that goofy preterism garbage.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thing is, the disciples who saw the transfiguration knew who Moe & Lige were, even though they didn't have pics of them. We don't know how they knew who they were. Maybe they heard Jesus address them by name. Maybe Jesus simply caused them to know.

And nobody saw Jesus on earth in 70 AD cuz He didn't return then.

The Second Coming will be seen worldwide, as history as we now know it ends then!

 

[asterisktom]

The thing with the witch of Endor was a hypnotic event, it wasn't real. Witches still do the same trick. There is nothing real in the occult it;s all imagination and post hypnotic suggestion. Mostly convincing lies. After all the Devil is a master deceiver.

The passage, 1 Sam. 28:11 - 20, clearly states that this was Samuel. This is shown also by the surprise of the witch. This was all beyond her abilities. God had overruled her trickery.

So here we have a non-physical appearance of Samuel.

 

[percho]

I just had to do it.

 

[HankD]

I came to the end of this thread which will probably be shut down soon.

One prophecy I have asked preterists to expound upon on more than one occasion is from Chapter 14 in Zechariah which IMO is obviously a companion and fulfillment to Acts 1:9-12 Where Jesus from His favorite meeting place - the Garden of Olives - commanded the disciples to go into the world with the gospel followed by the heavenly visitors explaining his return "in like manner".

Zechariah 14
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

"all the earth" see verse 2 : "All Nations"

and following with great detail:

I don't remember ever getting a good exegesis of Zechariah Chapter 14 from any preterists and invite anyone to explain this very literal description of the Lord waging war on the world from the geographic location of the Mount of Olives with a HUGE valley being made a way of escape for His own.

There are myriad other prophecies to be explained.

 

[asterisktom]

I came to the end of this thread which will probably be shut down soon.

One prophecy I have asked preterists to expound upon on more than one occasion is from Chapter 14 in Zechariah which IMO is obviously a companion and fulfillment to Acts 1:9-12 Where Jesus from His favorite meeting place - the Garden of Olives - commanded the disciples to go into the world with the gospel followed by the heavenly visitors explaining his return "in like manner".

Zechariah 14
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

"all the earth" see verse 2 : "All Nations"

and following with great detail:

I don't remember ever getting a good exegesis of Zechariah Chapter 14 from any preterists and invite anyone to explain this very literal description of the Lord waging war on the world from the geographic location of the Mount of Olives with a HUGE valley being made a way of escape for His own.

There are myriad other prophecies to be explained.

I just now saw this. But if you ask the wrong question you will get a wrong answer. I cannot "explain this very literal description" because I disagree with the very premise. If you believe, for instance, that the splitting in two of the Mount of Olives is "very literal" then, I assume, you would believe the following is literal too, from Micah 1:

"“For behold, the LORD is coming out of His place; He will come down And tread on the high places of the earth. The mountains will melt under Him, And the valleys will split Like wax before the fire, Like waters poured down a steep place. All this is for the transgression of Jacob And for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? Is it not Samaria? And what are the high places of Judah? Are they not Jerusalem? Therefore I will make Samaria a heap of ruins in the field, Places for planting a vineyard; I will pour down her stones into the valley, And I will uncover her foundations."

But if you believe that was metaphorical then why do you not recognize that here in Zechariah, the same prophetical Minor Prophet section, you have the same metaphorical imagery?

BTW, it isn't just preterists that see Zech. 14 fulfilled in AD 70. Many others throughout history have drawn the same conclusion. Consider this quote from Eusebius of Cesarea:

"The fulfilment of this also agrees with the passages quoted on the destruction of the whole Jewish race, which came upon them after the coming of Christ. For Zechariah writes this prophecy after the return from Babylon, foretelling the final siege of the people by the Romans, through which the whole Jewish race was to become subject to their enemies: he says that only the remnant of the people shall be saved, exactly describing the apostles of our Saviour." - Proof of the Gospel, 2.3.50,53

I will answer more later as I have time.