Saudi Prince Donates $40M to Universities

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Then don't accept such money if you're so convicted. But kindly refrain from judging brethren in like manner. It borders on unrighteousness, which is something I know you generally work to refrain from.

Yeah, I'll just sit back and watch true Christianity and it's followers continue to get blamed for America's problems, while Islam gets swept into all of our religious institutions, and I'll not say a word. 'Cuz saying it's wrong offends some people. And there's really nothing to worry about.

 

[LadyEagle]

fatbacker, you have made some very excellent points.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
Yeah, I'll just sit back and watch true Christianity and it's followers continue to get blamed for America's problems...

Oh please! And to think, I was actually defending you for a moment, believing you would prove to be righteous. But no, you're much happier playing armchair pharisee, content to sit back and accuse my cousin of violating scripture. I suppose next you'll be telling us not to seek treatment at Catholic hospitals.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Now yer calling me a pharisee, you throw that word around a lot lately.

John, I see a big problem with Saudi money flowing into our schools by the millions, for any reason.

And yes, we ARE scriptually commanded not to fellowship with false religions. Sorry if you take that as an insult to your cousin.

Third, I'll bet you 100 pushups that within 5 years of implimenting this Islamic program, Georgetown University will be taking it's crucifixes down, slowly, one by one, so nobody notices. It'll go from Jesuit to Jew-hatin'. 100 pushups says so.

 

[Johnv]

Bro Curtis, I must apologize for losing my cool. Calling you a pharisee was wrong, and I repent of that.

But I think there's a difference between gratitide and fellowshipping. I've mentioned before that I'm involved in Habitat for Humanity. There have been a few Muslims and Jews, as well as Catholics, who have volunteered. I don't think it scripturally wrong for me to swing a hammer next to them.

Likewise, if an individual Muslim donated to a local church's special fund, I likewise don't think it's inappropriate to accept it in gratitude.

Now, as far as Georgetown, they already had an Islamic Studies program, as did Harvard. According to the individual colleges, the money will be used for the program's scholarships, faculty, and infrastructure. So it's not like they had nothing that then, boom, they had an instand 20 million for a new deaprtment.

Do I question the Georgetown donation? Yes. (for the same reasons you do: a parochial school accepting donations from nonparocial donors) Am I overly concerned, no. Georgetown is quite a bit bigger then even a 20 million donation.

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by DavidsonBap:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I'm curious as to which Muslim countries you've been to actively witnessing for Jesus Christ.

I have done witnessing in Morocco, Bahrain, and Jordan. I did try witnessing in Egypt while I studied there but was unsuccessful. </font>[/QUOTE]Fortunately for you, you were able to do that. Morocco, Bahrain, and Jordan, while predominantly Muslim, are more Westernized in some respects. I know of some missionaries to Senegal and they were not permitted to speak the Name of Jesus in public, lest they be subject to arrest.

Going to Egypt was rather risky for you. Egypt has persecuted Christians. So has Turkey, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, and the majority of Muslim countries.

Most of the our fellow Christians in these countries (and there are MANY) are underground. Nearly all of these countries/regions have had the gospel in times past, and were, for the most part, populated by great numbers of Christians before islam moved in and slaughtered them or chased them out. There was an Early Church in Babylon, for instance.

These are historical facts, whether it paints a pretty picture of islam or not. Some muslims came into these countries where they were invited at first, for trade, etc., such as in America (the way it has been in the past, at least), and when muslims grew in sufficient numbers in the nation, they took over that nation and the jihad began with slaughtering of those who wouldn't covert. That is the history of islam, starting with the Jews in Medina.

Today, Christians in muslim countries, for the most part, suffer, are persecuted, enslaved, raped, have tires put around them soaked with gasoline and are lit on fire to burn to death for Christ. Or they see their family members tortured and butchered in front of their eyes because they won't denounce Jesus Christ and embrace allah. Or they are beheaded because they won't embrace allah. That is the norm for Christians, and especially former muslims who have been won to Christ, in muslim countries.

We are blessed to be able to live in this great land of ours and not be subject to the persecution and suffering that befalls our fellows in these muslim lands.

But you, see, taking over the world is the grand scheme of islamic agenda - the global agenda. In the other thread, you alluded to the fact that Christianity has a global agenda. Well, yes, we do, but not by the same method and not for the same reasons. To compare the two, is apples and oranges.

Bottom line, this money being being poured into American Universities is just to further the islamic cause. If Mr. Sheik was so concerned about greater understanding between the east & west, he should work harder over there in Saudi Arabia to get rid of the hate spewing mullahs in his own country.

I know a couple who lived over there in Saudi for over 30 years (oil business) and they moved back to the States just a couple of years ago. I don't have to go there to know what it's like over there. Or how women are treated there, for instance.

To spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, if that is what your intent is, you don't have to understand customs, a false religion, eating habits, or be a multiculturalist. Why? The Bottom Line is: God says His Word won't come back void. The Holy Spirit is the One who does the work for drawing unto Salvation - and He doesn't need for you or anyone else to study islam in order for Him to do His Special Work. Jesus said that if He be lifted up, He would draw all men to Him.

 

[gb93433]

If one looks at how Islam spread it was by force.

 

[fatbacker]

by JohnV Okay, so you not only believe that the study of different religions and phiosophies in the educational setting is unscriptural, but that said study in a Christian educational setting is wrong. Here I disagree with you completely. I think comparative religions courses, and similar courses, are worthy of inclusion in the cirriculum of Christian colleges, if the college so desires.

Giving or accepting a 20 million dollar donation does alot more than increase your curriculum for comparative studies. Theres is obvious religious intent on the part of the MUSLIM Prince.

And for those who think it is a good idea to give that much space other religions in a christian college then I would like to see anyone of you vote to allow a muslim service be held in your church on any given day or have a budhist congergation come into your Baptist church on a tuesday or give space to the agnostics to teach their beliefs. I mean why not it might be good for the other church members to see how they practice their faith and we might learn something. Heck, I cannot afford to go to one of those U's or have the grade point average so why not just let them use our church when we are not in service.

 

[DavidsonBap]

LadyEagle, thank you for putting so much work into your post and trying to show me another way to look at things. I appreciate that.

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

The Muslims are buying there way into the American educational system. This is not just about Americans learning about the Islamic religion. It is about the Islamics establishing a beachead in our country.

A couple of years ago it was reported that Prince Abdullah (one of King Fahd's brothers if I am not mistaken) stated that there had never been a church in Saudi Arabia and never would be. When our troops were stationed there in Desert Storm, they were not allowed to make any open displays of Christianity.

That our country would pay one ounce of respect to these Christ hating, liberty hating, terrorists staggers the imagination. But of course, it all comes down to one thing: money.

"The love of money is the root of all evil."

Mark Osgatharp

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
"Bridging the understanding between East and West is important for peace and tolerance," Prince Alwaleed said in a statement issued by both schools.

Amen to that.

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
"Bridging the understanding between East and West is important for peace and tolerance," Prince Alwaleed said in a statement issued by both schools.

Amen to that.

</font>[/QUOTE]Then, as I stated earlier, Mr. Sheik could START by trying to BRIDGE the UNDERSTANDING at his own universities, like in Riyadh or Medinah. Or even the one they fund in Egypt.

Imam Muhammad bin Saud University
The Imam Muhammad bin Saud Islamic University (PO Box 5701, Riyadh 11432), founded in 1953 (1372/73 AH) and accorded university status in 1974 (1394 AH), had more than 1,300 teachers and more than 23,000 students in 2000/20001. The total number of female students registered in 2000/2001 (1421/22 AH) was 643.

The Imam Muhammad bin Saud University is an international educational and cultural institution. It was formally inaugurated by Royal Decree in 1974 (1394 AH). Currently the University is composed of several faculties. The High Judiciary Institute was originally established in 1965 (1384/85 AH) for the purpose of graduating qualified Shari'ah judges. The Faculty of Shari'ah (theology) was established earlier in 1953 (1373 AH) for the purpose of meeting the demand for qualified Ulema and preachers throughout the country. The Faculty of Arabic Language and Social Science was originally established as the Faculty of Social Science in 1970 (1390 AH) and was expanded in 1974 (1394 AH) by adding an Arabic language major and a program in library science.

http://www.saudinf.com/main/j44.htm

Islamic University
The Islamic University (PO Box 170, Madinah), founded in 1961 (1380/81 AH), had421 teachers and more than 2,000 students in 2000/2001.
The University has Faculties of Islamic Law (Shari'ah), the Holy Qur'an and Islamic Studies, Da'wa and Usul Al-Din, Islamic Traditions (Hadith), Arabic Language and Islamic Preaching.

The Islamic University in Madinah is analogous to the Al-Azhar University of Cairo. It is essentially a school of Islamic theology. While, in recent years, the Al-Azhar of Cairo has expanded its field to secular programs of study such as medicine and engineering, the Islamic University in Madinah continues to focus all its resources on religious affairs.

Saudi students constitute almost 80% of the total enrollment. Foreign students have come to the Islamic University from more than 70 countries.

http://www.saudinf.com/main/j42.htm


Please, I beg you - Somebody prove I'm wrong and they have American professors over there in Saudi Arabia teaching course about Christianity and the freedoms and achievements of Western civilization and democracy. Why is it contingent upon the West to invite them in our universities and take their money? Why not vice versa? Unless the real motive isn't what is stated, but is as I and others have suggested - to promote islam in the west.

"tolerance" That would be a real side splitter if it wasn't so absurd.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Why is it contingent upon the West to invite them in our universities and take their money? Why not vice versa?

Perhaps because we want to hold ourselves to a higher standard when it comes to trying to get along with each other regardless of each other's religious beliefs.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
So why did Guliani refuse the money ?

In 2001 he offered New York City a donation of $10 million towards relief efforts after the September 11, 2001 attacks. This was rejected by Mayor Rudy Giuliani, feeling that the prince's issuance of a statement that the United States, "must address some of the issues that led to such a criminal attack", could be construed as a justification of the terrorist incidents.

Giuliani rejects money

Joseph Botwinick

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Why is it contingent upon the West to invite them in our universities and take their money? Why not vice versa?

Perhaps because we want to hold ourselves to a higher standard when it comes to trying to get along with each other regardless of each other's religious beliefs. </font>[/QUOTE]Seems to me THEY want to hold us to a higher standard than they do themselves.

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by DavidsonBap:
LadyEagle, thank you for putting so much work into your post and trying to show me another way to look at things. I appreciate that.

 

[Daisy]

If we only study our own culture, how will we ever train good political analysts & decent spies?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Daisy,

Do these universities train people to be spies?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[James Flagg]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Daisy,

Do these universities train people to be spies?

Joseph Botwinick

Spy agencies recruit heavily from universities. Without a broad knowledge and understanding of the target, it would be difficult for a spy to assimilate himself effectively.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Seems to me THEY want to hold us to a higher standard than they do themselves.

Well, if they do I see no reason for us to lower our standard to theirs.