Savage Remarks on RCC

[LadyEagle]

3-page warning: This thread will be closed no sooner than 3:00 a.m. ET by one of the moderators.

Lady Eagle,
Moderator

 

[The Galatian]

I have no problem with those who don't subscribe to creeds, so long as they accept the basic tenets of Christianity.

I don't mind them having additional beliefs, like the "Five Solas", so long as they realize that they aren't an essential Christian doctrine.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Thanks for your permission...although, I don't need it since the RCC has no authority over me whatsoever.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[The Galatian]

Actually, I still have a right to agree or not. Even if you disapprove.

I don't think it's difficult, but let me try...

I can have an opinion, and it doesn't mean that I'm oppressing you. Doesn't mean I'm giving or witholding "permission."

Does that help?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

 

[Eliyahu]

Apparently Catholic is different from True Christianity based on Sola Scriptura, and it is another religion than Christianity as the above posters confessed.

They don't claim that their members are going to Paradise after death as the Robber at the Cross went, but they strongly claim that all the members should go to Purgatory, except a few canonized by Pope as Saints, where they may spend indefinite years, relying on the prayers and alms-giving by their relatives.

True Christians believe that no one can reach the glory of God, without the Grace thru Jesus Christ. No alms giving or good works can earn the salvation.
If anyone could be saved out of Purgatory by Grace of God thru Jesus Christ, why can they not go to the Heaven directly by believing in Him now?

They are more miserable than the Robber at the Cross.

Only the concept of Purgatory is quite enough to prove Catholic is founded on human straw theory.

What about other theories?
They strongly deny that their church is founded upon Jesus Christ, the Solid Rock, when they strongly claim that their churches are founded upon human being Peter, even though Peter never heard about Roman Catholic Church.

They deny 1 Tim 3:2 saying Bishops (or Overseers) should be a husband of one wife, by imposing the Compulsory Celibacy of the Priests.

They deny Trinity which means Tri-Unity of Godheads, as they claim Mary is Mother of God and then she is not the Mother of God the Father while they claim Mary is Mother of God the Son and thereby they split Godheads from Tri-Unity!

They call the human being as Pope, Holy Father against the teachings in Mt 23:8-11, calling the human being Father on the earth, while the True believers call the Only God as Holy Father!

Our Holy Father Never Dies!

They pray to the dead woman, while Bible tells us to pray " to the Father which is in secret" (Mt 6:6)

What about their fruits?
Crusade, Inquisitons, Jesuits, etc.

I don't trust any Creeds other than Bible, and Bible is enough.

All scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. ( 2 Tim 3:16)

 

[The Galatian]

Apparently Catholic is different from True Christianity based on Sola Scriptura,

Remember, Sola Scriptura comes from man, not God.

and it is another religion than Christianity as the above posters confessed.

It is the largest group of Christians in the world. If you don't agree with them, it doesn't mean that you aren't a Christian. It just means you're a bit different than most of us.

True Christians believe that no one can reach the glory of God, without the Grace thru Jesus Christ.

Well, you have that one right.

No alms giving or good works can earn the salvation.

This is why Luther wanted James removed from the Bible. James says that one is justified by works. And Jesus says in Matthew 25 that it is the way He will judge you.

They strongly deny that their church is founded upon Jesus Christ, the Solid Rock, when they strongly claim that their churches are founded upon human being Peter, even though Peter never heard about Roman Catholic Church.

Let's see...

Matthew 1618And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

God says it was founded on Peter. It appears that you and God have a few differences.

They deny Trinity which means Tri-Unity of Godheads, as they claim Mary is Mother of God and then she is not the Mother of God the Father while they claim Mary is Mother of God the Son and thereby they split Godheads from Tri-Unity!

And yet, Jesus says that Mary is His mother. Again, you and God have some differences.
Our Holy Father Never Dies!

They pray to the dead woman, while Bible tells us to pray " to the Father which is in secret" (Mt 6:6)

Did you not know that Jesus defeated death for all time? Mary is as alive as you are. And so are all the others in Heaven. And they can pray for you as much as anyone else.

 

[LadyEagle]

Moving this to the Other Denominations forum, rather than closing the thread.

Lady Eagle

 

[BobRyan]

"But in the pre-interview — which occurred just a half hour before Savage went ballistic — I let a producer know that I did not share the host’s position; after he checked with Savage, I was told they would not have me on the show. That was fine, but what is not fine is Savage’s diatribe about the ‘greedy pigs’ in the Catholic Church and how ‘the institution is rotten from the top to the bottom.’ He owes all Catholics an apology.”

Though the Catholic church claims to have slaughtered 75 million of those that opposed it and claims to have retained an "actual record" of 25 million slaughtered - it also claims it does not owe the "WORLD" an apology for the dark ages, the inquisition and the crimes against humanity that it sponsored in those dark ages. (The World's demand that the RCC apologize for those deeds not withstanding.)

Having said that - I agree with you Savage owes Catholics an apology.

 

[The Galatian]

I don't think Catholics want an apology from Savage. Repentence would be better for everyone.

The Catholic Church has officially apologized to Jews and to other denominations.

I note that the Southern Baptists have apologized to blacks officially as well.

This is what Christians are supposed to do. Sounds good to me.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by The Galatian:

The Catholic Church has officially apologized to Jews and to other denominations.

Have they?
Have they repealed the anathemas applicable and still standing that were proclaimed against all Protestants at the Council of Trent?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by The Galatian:

The Catholic Church has officially apologized to Jews and to other denominations.

For what? What specific deed did they admit to being in error? According to Dr Carroll of EWTN - NO DEED was admitted to being in error or "wrong" to either Jews or other Christian groups.

The apology was specifically designed so that it would NOT actually admit to any actual act in actual history as being wrong. In other words you can not go to the inquisition and claim that the RCC has ever admitted that this was "error".

Soooo - lets say that such a non-descript, non-specific apology were to be issued by the author of this thread? is that what you are seeking?

What about the same dgree to which the RCC "repented" of its decisions to "exterminate" or "support the inquisition"?? (Please provide a specific quote if you have ever found the RCC doing such a thing).

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by The Galatian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Apparently Catholic is different from True Christianity based on Sola Scriptura,

Remember, Sola Scriptura comes from man, not God.
</font>[/QUOTE]Do you believe that Scriptura means Words of God?
You may always try to return to man. Where is Words of God?

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by The Galatian:
Matthew 16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

God says it was founded on Peter. It appears that you and God have a few differences. [/QB]

This is why I said that Catholics strongly confess that their churches are not founded upon the Rock, Jesus Christ, but they srongly confess that their churches are founded upon the human being, Peter.

You may not know what Jesus said in Mt 16:18:

Upon this Rock I will build my church:

How can Petra ( female noun) represent male noun Petros ?

Have you ever read this ?

1 Corinthians 10:4
They drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ.

Where is the mentioning about Peter here ?

1 Cor 3:11
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ . 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Again in Ephesians 2:20

And (ye) are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Let's see Peter's own confession:

1 Peter 5:1
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:


Does he claim that he is the foundation of the church? Don't you see that he is confessing himself is one of the elders?

 

[Eliyahu]

Galatian,

Please read this also:

Peter's own confession in 1 Peter 2:4-8


4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: F5 but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed

 

[The Galatian]

For what? What specific deed did they admit to being in error?

For the part that the Church played in schisms. Specifically, the admission was that the Church has a share of the blame for the splintering of God's people.

For failing to do enough to stop antiSemitism. The Jews, at least have been receptive and supportive of the Church for this admission.

According to Dr Carroll of EWTN - NO DEED was admitted to being in error or "wrong" to either Jews or other Christian groups.

Perhaps Carroll is merely ignorant of these facts.

The apology was specifically designed so that it would NOT actually admit to any actual act in actual history as being wrong. In other words you can not go to the inquisition and claim that the RCC has ever admitted that this was "error".

In fact, the Pope finally put an end to the inquisition in those countries where rulers had turned it into a political tool for the suppression of unpopular people.

Soooo - lets say that such a non-descript, non-specific apology were to be issued by the author of this thread? is that what you are seeking?

As I said, repentence would serve him better, and that would be fine with me.

What about the same dgree to which the RCC "repented" of its decisions to "exterminate" or "support the inquisition"??

The error, for example, in which the Church took part in the Gallileo affair. That sort of admission?

Of course, the Church, unlike some denominations, never advocated slavery or racism.

I'm sure we can all keep lists of things others have done wrong. But my thinking is that we would do better to clean our own houses before we peek in the neighbor's windows.

I think that's what God wants to. If you really care about that sort of thing.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by The Galatian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />They pray to the dead woman, while Bible tells us to pray " to the Father which is in secret" (Mt 6:6)

Did you not know that Jesus defeated death for all time? Mary is as alive as you are. And so are all the others in Heaven. And they can pray for you as much as anyone else. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]So do you mean Mary became Omni-Present and Omniscient to accept all the prayers from 1.3 Billion Catholics?
Could she do it while she was alive?
Did she become so powerful after death?
Do you abolish the commandment of Jesus that we should pray to Father?

 

[The Galatian]

Do you believe that Scriptura means Words of God?

It means writing. If they are the words of God, (and they are), it is because we can trust the inspiration, and the scholarship and the tradition that guided men to choose the books that comprise it.

It can be no more authoritative than the means by which it was produced. And as noted before, Sola Scriptura is not a Biblical doctrine.

It is a modern addition, made by men.

 

[The Galatian]

Barbarian observes:
Did you not know that Jesus defeated death for all time? Mary is as alive as you are. And so are all the others in Heaven. And they can pray for you as much as anyone else.

So do you mean Mary became Omni-Present and Omniscient to accept all the prayers from 1.3 Billion Catholics?

What makes you think that? What a silly idea. Surely, we will be able to know and do much more when we are in heaven, but we will not be omniscient.

Do you abolish the commandment of Jesus that we should pray to Father?

I can't believe you're serious here. Do you not pray to God for others? If so, what makes you think He will hear your prayer, and not hers?

 

[The Galatian]

Have they repealed the anathemas applicable and still standing that were proclaimed against all Protestants at the Council of Trent?

I wonder if the Protestants have repealed theirs. There was a lot of that going on. However, the Church now considers other Christian denominations our brothers in Christ, and believes that they save as well.

And that's a good start. Some of those denominations, of course, are not spiritually ready to be equally accepting, but time and patience will surely help.