"Save yourself..."

still, I would remain a nephew, or neighbor, regardless of obedience or disobedience.

Perhaps not many gods, but many witnesses of whom I may or may not hear? But neither of these my 'parent' . I could buy that and sell it not:thumbs: :type:

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

The problem with this view, as I see it skypair, is that you have God responding to something that men do. God sees who is going to believe (learning something new, apparantly) and then choses/elects them based on what they (men) did. That means they merited/earned God's election of them, based on what they did.

This is not Grace. Grace is unmerited favor. Grace is God's choice according to His will and His will alone, as He choses whom He will have compassion on.

peace to youraying:

 

Of course God's "gets his will". How else do all things work together for good for those who love Him and are called? If God allows us to sin, so that the consequences cause us to draw closer to Him, then His will has been accomplished.

Again, I don't think you are understanding scripture very well. The point of John 3 is the will of God in the salvation of men. It was a theme first introduced in Chapter 1 and will continue at various times in John's gospel.

As far the rest of what you said....

peace to youraying:

 

All I had to do is read what you posted, compare it to what God said in His word and come to the conclusion that you changed what God had written. It isn't difficult, really.

I don't trust Calvin or skypair. I trust what the Living God has revealed to me in His word. That's why I always try to bring you back to scripture. I am trying to get you to realize your assumptions are contrary to what God has revealed in His Word.

peace to youraying:

 

I fully agree that we cannot pick and choose scriptures. But who do you mean by "they" when you say, "They think they entered through election, but election cannot save you if you do not come to Jesus."? Has anyone on this board ever suggested that sinners can be saved without coming to Jesus? If they have, I must have missed it or forgotten it. Perhaps you could refresh my memory.

You go on to say that Jesus is the way, not election. Again, has anybody ever said that election (without Jesus) is the way?

Please don't just say, "They think this" or "They believe that", without telling us who the "they" are, and without giving any example to show that "they" do indeed believe such things.

May I throw out a challenge? If there is anybody who really believes that they can somehow be saved by "election without Jesus", please tell us. If no one does, it will indicate that the claims made by Psalms 109.31 are mistaken.

 

Thank you Skypair. I don't always agree with you, but it is good if when we disagree we can do so politely and considerately.

I have never heard of election being a body before.

If we have to repent before God chooses us, why does God's Word even mention election? And election is just another word for choosing. Indeed, in Acts 9.15 the same Greek word is translated "chosen". And Ephesians 1.4 makes it clear that choosing of sinners was made "before the foundation of the world."

Rather a hurried response, I am afraid, as I am just going out.

 

1. I will like to point out that the verb Peter used is an aorist passive imperative, sothete, and it best translated, "Be saved."

2. Being passive, this verb signifies that a person cannot save himself.

3. The HCSB translates this verb accurately: "And with many other words he testified and strongly urged them, saying, "Be saved from this corrupt generation!" (Acts 2:40, emphasis, tcg).

 

They

I know many calvinist that have a relationship with Jesus and continue to build it and they are not the they.

The they I'm talking about its the one's I'm speaking of is those who trust in thier election over Jesus.

Our salvation is based on our trust in Jesus not our trust in election.

We are saved by grace not matter what we do, because we don't have to pay our debt which is death.

The whole truth is not that we are saved by grace, but the whole truth is we are saved by grace through faith.

We are saved by grace because we don't have to pay our debt through faith that God has given to us through His word.

 

Thanks for your reply, Psalms109:31, but I am still left wondering if you have actually read someone on this board stating that they trust in their election instead of in Jesus. I must admit that I have never heard or read anybody (not just Baptist Board members) say such a thing.

 

The world

I have two regular jobs in the world. I don't just get to see how man pretend to be Christain on this board or in the church but how they act in the world. They live a life saved by grace not a life trusting in Jesus. We are saved by grace through faith. We must show our faith by what we do.

It is a shame to see being saved by grace not through faith in action.

 

Agreed! I think?

peace to youraying:

 

Sorry, Skypair, I don't know what you mean. What body are you talking about? Our physical bodies? The church, which is called in the bible "the body of Christ"? God did elect before either of those were in existence, for as Paul writes to the Ephesian Christians in Ephesians 1.4:

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.


​

By the way, I cannot remember saying that your theology was curious; I have said that I don't agree with all of it, not that it is curious. I apologise if I gave you any offence.

That reduces God's choice to reacting to human choice. Yet the bible tells us that God is more proactive than that. He "has mercy on whom He wills". And James 1.18 says:

Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.


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Does this make sense to human reasoning: The Lord of all glory laying aside the glory of heaven to be born and laid in an animal feeding-trough, then to endure enmity, mocking, scourging, hatred, and crucifixion, all to save rebel sinners. Surely you are not saying that we have to judge God's truth by how sensible it seems to us?

No, that is not the essence of Calvinism. You seem to be presenting the idea of dividing unbelievers into Calvinists and non-calvinists, with the Calvinists sitting back and saying to themselves, "Well if I am one of God's elect, He will save me anyway. I don't need to bother about believing on Jesus Christ or repenting of my sins." But calvinistic theology does not teach such a thing. We must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. We must repent of our sins. But both of those things are spiritualk actions, and cannot be accomplished by someone who is still "dead in trespasses and sins." I know you don't agree with that, but please don't imply that Calvinists belittle belief and repentance. We don't.

 

Thank you, Skypair, but why should I do that? Election is another word for choosing. Sanctification is not election.

 

So does that mean you have heard or read someone say that they trust in their election instead of in Jesus?

 

Election or Jesus

I'll ask you a question and it will till you what is more important to you election or Jesus.

If someone isn't told about Jesus can they be saved?

So what is more important to you election or Jesus?

Anyone can come right, but they cannot come if they never hear the message?

So Jesus cannot save you without election?

I hear more about election here than I do about Jesus, so yes i do feel people trust in thier election more than Jesus.

Even if we cannot come to Jesus without election, still Jesus is more important than election right?