Saved, Lost, Saved Again.

Yes, this is why I stated in my post..."Now we know and believe from scripture that to reject the one True God is to hate Him. But this is only from God's point of view, the individuals mentioned above do not necessarily personally feel hate towards a God".

God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]It does not matter what people "feel"

Heb 4:11 ¶ Therefore, let us exert ourselves to enter into that rest, that not anyone fall in the same example of disobedience.
12 For the Word of God is living, and powerfully working, and sharper than every two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of both soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge of the thoughts and intentions of the heart;
13 and there is no creature unrevealed before Him; but all things are naked and laid open to His eyes, with whom is our account.

 

What causes you to equate "falling away" with "saved then lost"? Cannot falling away be the same as backsliding? Backsliding is allowed, isn't it, without forfeiting salvation?
[snip]
. . .Just some thoughts! But just how do you make the connection between "saved then lost" = "falling away"?

God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

1 Timothy 4
1 ¶ But the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, cleaving to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons,
2 in lying speakers in hypocrisy, being seared in their own conscience,

2 Tim 3:13 But evil men and pretenders will go forward to worse, leading astray and being led astray.


2 Tim 4:3 For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own lusts, they will heap up to themselves teachers tickling the ear;
4 and they will turn away the ear from the truth and will be turned aside to myths.

Matt 24:11 And many false prophets will be raised and will cause many to err.
23 Then if anyone says to you, Behold, here is the Christ! Or, Here! Do not believe.
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise up. And they will give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

Luk 8:13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age,
6 and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

2 Thessalonians 2
1 ¶ And, brothers, we entreat you, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together to Him,
2 for you not to be quickly shaken in the mind, nor to be disturbed, neither through a spirit, nor through speech, nor through letter, as through us, as if the Day of Christ has come.
3 ¶ Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because that Day will not come unless first comes the falling away, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2 Peter 3:17 Therefore, beloved, knowing beforehand, beware lest being led away with the error of the lawless, you fall from your own steadfastness.
18 But grow in grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.


Matt 7:21 ¶ Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many works of power?
23 And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; "depart from Me, those working lawlessness!" Psa. 6:8

2 Cor 11:13 For such ones are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 Did not even Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light?
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

1 Peter 1:10 Therefore, brothers, rather be diligent to make sure of your calling and election; for doing these things, you will not ever fall.
11 For so will be richly furnished to you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

John 15:5 I am the Vine; you are the branches. The one abiding in Me, and I in him, this one bears much fruit, because apart from Me you are not able to execute, nothing.
6 Unless one remains in Me, he is cast out as the branch and is dried up; and they gather and throw them into a fire, and they are burned.

Matthew 25
1 ¶ Then the kingdom of Heaven shall be compared to ten virgins who taking their lamps, went out to a meeting of the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five foolish.
3 Those being foolish, taking their lamps, did not take oil with them.
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 But the bridegroom delaying, all nodded and slept.
6 And at midnight, a cry occurred: Behold, the bridegroom comes! Go out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins were aroused and prepared their lamps.
8 And the foolish said to the wise, Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, No, lest there not be enough for us and you. But rather, go to those who sell and buy for yourselves.
10 But they going away to buy, the bridegroom came. And those ready went in with him to the wedding feast, and the door was shut.
11 And afterwards, the rest of the virgins also came, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But answering, he said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you.
13 Therefore, watch, for you do not know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man comes.

Luke 13:6 ¶ And He spoke this parable: A certain one had planted a fig tree in his vineyard. And he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
7 And he said to the vinedresser, Behold, three years I come looking for fruit on this fig tree, and found none. Cut it down, and why does it waste the ground?
8 And the vinedresser said to him, Sir, leave it also this year until I shall dig around it and throw manure;
9 and see if it indeed makes fruit. But if not, in the future you may cut it down.

1 Tim 5:15 For some already have turned aside behind Satan.

1 Cor 9:26 So I run accordingly, as not uncertainly; so I fight, as not beating air;
27 but I buffet my body and lead it captive, lest proclaiming to others I myself might be disapproved.

Heb 3:12 Watch, brothers, lest perhaps there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief in withdrawing from the living God.
13 But exhort yourselves each day, as long as it is being called today, that not any of you be hardened by the deceit of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if truly we hold the beginning of the assurance firm to the end;
15 as in the saying, "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the provocation." Psalm 95:7,8 MT

2 Peter 2:20 For if by a recognition of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, they have escaped the defilements of the world, and again being entangled they have been overcome by these, then their last things have become worse than the first.
21 For it was better for them not to have recognized the way of righteousness than having recognized it to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But the word of the true proverb has happened to them: "The dog turning to his own vomit;" also, the washed sow to wallowing in mud. Prov. 26:11

 

As in all things, God has the "final answer"

been nice chatting with ya
shalom!

 

Great post Webdog.

 

steaver,

Your testimony is not unlike that of many believers. They are found in the Bible and in our own walk in this life. Consider David, a man after God's own heart, he committed murder and adultery. God punished him, but did not remove His mercy (salvation) from him--David did not lose his salvation.

The parable of the Prodigal Son is another case in point. This man was the son of The Father. He became restless, strayed from home, committed sins of every nature, and when he hit bottom, he realized his condition and said I will return to my Father. He raised himself and returned, his Father welcomed and forgave him. Never once did his Father say that His son had lost his mercy and the Father's love, the son lost his way for a season.

If you were in fact saved as a child, walked with God and then rebelled against Him, you did not lose your salvation. By your actions, you fell out of fellowship with Him and lost the joy of your salvation--just as David did.

If, however your were not saved, I am not questioning your salvation here, then you are no different from any other unsaved sinner. At the proper time, you realized you fallen state and responded to God's call to salvation.

I am persuaded that since salvation is from God, only He can take it from us. He has promised that once we receive His salvation it is eternal.

 

ok - you "tempted" me to get back into the dialogue but at this point, I want to ask questions pertaining to specific texts which I posted to support the loss of salvation. Perhaps you can give me your perspective as to why these would not be considered "loss of salvation" verses.

let's tackle this one first:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age, 6 and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.
7 (For the earth drinking in the rain often coming upon it, and producing vegetation suitable for those for whom it is also worked, receives blessing from God;
8 "but bearing thorns and thistles," it is deemed unfit and near a curse, of which the end is for burning.) Gen. 3:17, 18

 

Well, that was an unexpected surprise - that you agree Heb 6 does indeed say that one can lose their salvation - I supposed that you would have a rather lengthy twist, as I have heard time and again on those verses. So we agree, on that point, anyway

Now, to answer your question, I believe that you backslid. I have read through your testimony a few times. You said that you rejected the Lordship of Christ, but I think you meant more that you took your life in your own hands, not that you rejected Christ as the Messiah - that would be losing one's salvation, in my opinion.

When you realized your error in lifestyle, you relinquished the reigns to Jesus once again. This would be the story of the Prodigal, as was mentioned. So, no, you did not lose your salvation and then get it back again. It is a matter of the heart. As you say, you were in rebellion, just as the Prodigal was, and God was just waiting for you to come back. He is so cool

 

I surely did not continue in His will, in submission, or in His word for those ten years.

God Bless! [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I think you are missing my point - as Paul said, you were in the condition as one escaping through the fire - eventually, you would have died spiritually. the conscience does get seared when it hardens it heart against God. But only He knows that point. I have met plenty of people who have backslid and returned - that is by the grace of God.

It is more than obvious, by the NT writers, that contending for the faith and a continual submission to God is a requirement to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It is just common sense when you read the Word. We cannot live a life of non committal before the Lord.

It is difficult when discussing a topic such as this to give a balanced perspective from every angle. It has been years in studying and coming to understand the Word that my conclusion is that one can lose their salvation. That we all have not, is the grace of God.

I believe that a balanced approach is critical - this subject is far to deep for any of us to totally understand. I have known people who were committed to the Lord and fell away, never to return [they died]. It does happen. Jesus said it would.

 

Actually, I think we are criss crossing back and forth. You are looking for specific answers from me and I don't have them.

We both believe that the grace of God saves and keeps people from falling away. We both know that grace kept you from spiritual death. But God does not always keep people from falling away. There is human will to factor in. Does God put the motivation in people to stay the narrow path - yes, I know that He does. Yet, He says that man will have no excuse if they are not saved or fall away. I will fall on His grace and mercy that I was not left to die, but that He picked me up and turned me in His direction.

Rom 9:18 So, then, to whom He desires, He shows mercy. And to whom He desires, He hardens.
19 You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
20 Yes, rather, O man, who are you answering against God? Shall the thing formed say to the One forming it, Why did You make me like this? Isa. 29:16
21 Or does not the potter have authority over the clay, out of the one lump to make one vessel to honor, and one to dishonor? Jer. 18:6
22 But if God, desiring to demonstrate His wrath, and to make His power known, endured in much long-suffering vessels of wrath having been fitted out for destruction,
23 and that He make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy which He before prepared for glory,
24 whom He also called, not only us, of Jews, but also out of nations.

 

steaver wrote:
Balanced approach is saying that you want it both ways. Either your are saved by grace through faith or you are saved by something of yourself! You conclude "[they died]". Did they really? How do you know their heart?


eloidalmanutha:
died as in dead, fini, no more, buried in a grave, etc. how do I know their heart? a desire to burn in hell stated specifically. is that good enough for you?