Featured Saving Faith: God’s Gift to Sinners or Sinners’ Gift to God?

Man is born in bondage to sin.

Convicted, no matter how you slice it Grace (unmerited favor) has to come first, because the natural man considers the things of God to be foolishness.

That grace changes the natural mans nature from a natural man to a spiritual man, or we may also call it a supernatural miracle called born from above, and ONLY then can he believe by faith.


1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

Grace came first and was nailed to a cross. He hung, bled, and died for His sheep, was laid in a tomb for three days and nights for His sheep, was resurrected for His sheep, ascended back to the Father for His sheep, and will return in the cloud for His sheep.

Grace came first in Christ, now faith in Him has to follow. This faith is God given to His elect, His chosen, His sheep, His foreordained. So grace first came, now the gift of faith must be given.

 

I agree grace comes first, what does that grace do to ONLY the predestined sheep so that they can believe by faith? Do you believe faith is a self-righteous act of man? Back is about 15 min, going to shovel some snow

 

I believe in all five points of the doctrines of grace. Grace saves sinners. Faith is the vehicle by which grace flows. Before Christ came in the flesh, grace was. Noah found it in God's sight. Abram was reckoned righteous when he believed in God. Grace was on the right hand of God when He spoke this world into existance.

Grace moves in the sheep via God-given faith....

 

Here, let me help you....

 

LOL My driveway would have been done in two minutes instead of thirty five minutes.

Do you believe that regeneration precedes faith?

 

That is something that kinda puzzles me. Does regeneration preceed faith or do they happen concurrently? What I mean is does God give life to the dead sinner and then give them faith, or does He give faith, and this faith given by Him, bring life? I tend to think regeneration preceeds faith...

 

Howdy convicted;

God gives life to the dead sinner who hates Him, then because their nature is changed they believe by their OWN faith, faith is an action a work done by a person who's nature has been changed before they did anything good or bad. To say faith alone is idolatry, because it says man can believe by his own faith or actions. Also no matter how we slice it Grace has to be there first.

 

Howdy back. Did I help you with your driveway?

Never stated faith alone. We both agree that grace and faith are both gifts of God. But you can't have God-given grace w/o having God-given faith and vice versa. Grace, and grace alone saves. Now, w/o faith, there can be no grace. For we are saved by grace, but it's grace through faith. The 'does regeneration preceed faith' thing is something I tend to believe, but can someone be dead in sin yet justified? Faith justifies us(Gal. 3:8). So if regeneration(life given to the dead sinner) preceeds faith, doesn't that make someone alive, yet not yet justified?

The more I type the more I see, it seems. Life comes to the dead sinner, because death can't have faith. Life given, then faith is given. That makes life, then justification. So yes, regeneration absolutely does preceed faith. I tended to believe it, but now I do. Thanks! :wavey:

 

Regeneration precedes faith

Right, unmerited favor (Grace) is bestowed upon a predestined elect before they do anything good or bad, God's favorites are at their appointed time are regenerated or their nature is miraculously changed, they then are lovers instead of haters of God and believe by faith. Faith is a work an action done by someone who has been born from above. Only a few are regenerated, because only a few have been chosen before the earth was created. Even though no human deserved anything but Hell, He was gracious and chose a few.

 

God is not a man that he should lie; neither the son of man that he should repent. Hath he spoken and shall he not do it. Or hath he spoken and shall he not make it good?
Christ is the same: yesterday, today, and forever.
"I am the Lord; I change not."

Whether in the OT or the NT God doesn't change his basic ways.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
--There is always an appeal to the mind. Man is not a robot, a puppet of the Great Puppeteer in heaven programmed before the foundation of the world: every thought, word, action--not only known--but predetermined by God.
Throughout the OT the Lord constantly appeals to Israel to "Return to me." or to "repent," etc. There is always a choice for Israel to make. Even the other nations and individuals outside Israel are appealed to. Jonah went to Nineveh, and an appeal was made to the Ninevites to repent, which they did. And God had mercy on them. One would not normally consider the "of the elect." But God granted mercy unto them.
God reasons, pleads, begs for his creatures to come to him.

As it was in the OT, so it is in the gospels, Acts, post-cross, and now.
The Great Commission is a plea to the lost and perishing to receive Christ. Faith is not a gift to the unregenerated or the unsaved. Grace refers to the work that was done at Calvary, the work on the cross.

The expression "your faith" is found 24 times in the NT.
"Thy faith" is used 11 times. "His faith," twice; and "their faith" three more times.

What did Jesus mean when he said:
Matthew 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
--Where did the faith come from? It is almost a ridiculous question to ask.
It seems as if certain here are re-defining faith making it to mean some mysterious undefinable supernatural intangible coming only from God.
Clearly Jesus did not define faith that way.
He likened it to trust, confidence. It was something exercised that even little children did. "Except you be as these little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven."
He was speaking of faith. The children put their faith or confidence in their parents to protect, care, guide, and provide for them, rather than a stranger. They will not go to a stranger so willingly, if at all.
One must be as a child--have that simplistic faith as a child if they want to enter into the kingdom of God. Faith is confidence in the word of another.
Biblical faith is confidence in the Word of God, specifically in its promises.

Thus Jesus says:
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
--There is always an invitation. There is always an appeal to the mind. God appeals to the mind or heart of man for he is responsible for the choice that he makes. Man is always responsible for the actions he makes. This is a universal truth. The heathen even know this apart from God's Word.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
--Not only has God given the heathen the law written on their hearts, but he has given them a conscience that tells them between right and wrong. They know when they offend a holy God.
God reaches out to men. Romans chapter one demonstrates how man chooses to reject God. But not everyone rejects God. That is demonstrated in verse 18, in that they once had the truth, but rejected it. In verse 20 they had no excuse for rejecting the truth concerning the triune godhead.

The gospel is summarized in 1Cor.15:1-4.
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
--In verse one it was declared or preached by Paul. And then also, it was received by the Corinthians. Paul adds a disclaimer. "unless you believed in vain." There is the difference between "saving faith" and otherwise. It simply means that their belief was genuine and not just head knowledge.
They received the gospel, and they received it by faith. Whenever we receive something it is received by faith.
--Paul reiterates the same truth in verse three.
"I delivered to you that which I also received..." the gospel.
The gospel is always received by faith. The gospel saves.

The gospel is in verses 3 and 4:
"how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"
--This is the grace of God. We are saved by grace--the work of Christ on the cross of Calvary. Salvation is by Christ, through Christ, in Christ, and in Him alone. There is no other way but by Christ. It is all of grace. But grace is not grace unless that grace is received by faith.
For by grace are ye saved through faith.

Faith is not a gift. Faith is not a "tangible." Faith is not a work. You are contradicting Romans 4:4,5. Faith and works are opposites of each other.
Every person has faith. The important factor is: what is the object of one's faith?

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
--Looking unto Jesus. He is the object of our faith.

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself,
--Consider Him; consider Jesus. He is the object of our faith.
The world may put as the object of their faith: riches, the world, fame, entertainment, sports, family, etc. But the Christian needs to have Jesus as the object of our faith.

Grace is simply unmerited favor. Some use an acronym to define it as "God's Riches At Christ's Expense." And so it is. Yes, salvation is of grace. It is a gift received by faith.

That is all part of salvation.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

Truthfully, that sounds like Roman Catholicism.
No, the Bible does not teach this. We all have faith. What is the object of our faith. When a person learns of the gospel, is convinced of the truth of it, and the Holy Spirit convicts him of his sinful condition, then he has a choice to make. He can believe the gospel or reject it. God does not force a man to be saved. He is not going to believe with "God's faith." That is absurd. God gives him the choice to believe.
"Thy faith has made you whole." Christ always referred to "their faith."
He never referred to the faith that God had given to them, in relation to salvation. Those to whom he spake to had to believe for themselves.
Man must make his own decision concerning the grace of God in salvation. It cannot be forced upon him.

God has revealed all that we need to know in his word. The gospel is simple. To concoct a theological system that goes above and beyond what God has said is unbiblical.

Come now and let us reason together the Lord says.
He tells the Athenians:
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
--He doesn't command people to do that which is impossible for them to do.
Paul wasn't commanding the unelect to repent.

Total Inability is the foundation of Calvinism. Upon it all the rest of TULIP is built. If it crumbles the rest crumbles.

 

The natural man in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Since Believing the Gospel takes Faith which pleases God Heb 11:6, the natural man cannot believe the Gospel ! Its hid to him while in a lost state 2 Cor 4:3 !

 

So when a lost person has compassion on the poor and needy, even sacrifices their own time and well being for those less fortunate, not for any personal gain, nor for any attempt to please God to gain favor in some way from God, this does not please God? God hates these lost people going around helping people????

 

Is Mother Theresa in Hell for her sins?

Right :thumbsup:

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Take Mother Theresa who devoted her life for the Lepers for an example, if Mother Theresa put her faith in Rcc sacraments and not in Christ alone, she is in Hell for HER sins.

 

That is true. Her good works counted for naught as far as her salvation was concerned. If you ask a leper that was either cured, or symptoms relieved, did she do good unto them? yes or no?

 

Yes. And that is what Romans 8 is speaking of, those who do things in the flesh to try in please God. God judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. If a lost person does good it pleases God. It does not save the person. Calvinism uses Romans 8 out of context. And now you will post another passage out of context "there is none that do good". Once again, the context is towards gaining righteousness with God, you can't, only if you are in Christ. Stay in context people!!!!

 

Steaver, I just gave you scripture that says the wrath of God abides on ALL unbelievers, did you rip that part out of your bible?

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

Yes, but not in the eyes of God if the person is an unbeliever.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.