Featured Saving Faith: God’s Gift to Sinners or Sinners’ Gift to God?

These previous verses are sort of disjointed and taken out of context.
Some refer to the believer; some to the unbeliever; some to the Christian walk; some to the new birth.

Another verse taken out of context.
In Ephesians 2:8-10, verses 8,9 speak of salvation, while verse 10 speaks of the reason for our salvation. The reason for our salvation is to do good works. Predestination is only used in context of believers and never unbelievers, so it really doesn't apply in this verse any way. That is not a primary teaching here. Paul is simply teaching that the believer, as a new creation in Christ, is created to do good works. That is the will of God for every believer.

Let's just use common sense and say that at the point of salvation God gives the believer spiritual gifts, and even then I am not sure what you are speaking about. What spiritual gifts specifically? Many spiritual gifts listed in 1Cor.12 have ceased. However if you are speaking of the fruit of the Spirit, then, that is another subject.

You keep talking of spiritual gifts? Where are you getting this from. Do you still speak in tongues as well??
The gift of faith was a spiritual gift as was the gift of healing, and the gift of tongues. They have all ceased. What other "spiritual gifts" are you referring to?

Dead means separated not a corpse; not lifeless, but only separated--separated from God.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
When the spirit separates from the body, that is death. Death is separation.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
When they were separated from God they were dead, not physically, but spiritually. Their spirit was inoperable, not non-existent or lifeless.

Your scripture is taken out of context. Actually the context isn't given and neither is the reference.

I believe in depravity but not the Total Inability that Calvin teaches.

The Lord has used that comparison in different contexts. No, not unless I see the context.

Do you believe it is possible for an unsaved man to "repent" as God, through Paul, commanded the idolatrous Athenians? Or is "repenting" a bad thing to do?

I have no idea what you are talking about?
First, is this in context of a believer or unbeliever.
If an unbeliever:
What is faith?
What is saving faith?
What is spiritual faith?
What is spiritual saving faith?
How does an unbeliever acquire this special spiritual saving faith?
Faith is faith. The word "saving" is the same as "genuine" or "sincere," in opposition to "give assent," "acknowledge," etc. Faith is trust, confidence.

You are making things up. Faith is faith. Faith is never re-defined as you have just done. This is a problem inherent among Calvinists--redefining Biblical terminology.
The world doesn't mean the world any longer; it means the elect.
All doesn't mean all; it means the elect.
Whosoever doesn't mean whoever; it means the elect.
Sheep--the elect.
"save the 'lost'" --the elect
etc. etc. And the list goes on and on. This problem of redefining words is inherent in Calvinism.

The word carnal is changed by the Calvinist. It doesn't define only the unsaved, but also defines the Christian. There are carnal Christians, and those carnal Christians cannot please God in their carnality. In the flesh the Christian will not please God. Remember the Bible was written for believers.

No man "brings forth faith." Faith is faith. Jesus said unless you be as little children you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. He was speaking of "faith." Little children (who have not been regenerated) have faith. Jesus said you need to be like them.

You don't know what that verse means do you?
When Jesus used it in Mark 7, he was referring to works.
When Jesus used it in Matthew 7, he was referring to doctrine.

Here is a better verse:
(ESV) the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?

Then when you sin, what do you do? Your heart is also wicked, as every man's heart is. One never rids himself from the old nature. He still sins. What is the solution?
David, a man after God's own heart, said:
"If I regard iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me" (Psa.66:18).

But to those in rebellion against God, the Lord said through his prophet Isaiah:
"Come now and let us reason together saith the Lord..."
--God appeals to the human heart no matter how much Calvin rolls over in his grave and complains.

To Adam God said:
"In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Adam ate; Adam died (spiritually). And yet this "dead Adam" continued to talk to God and carry on an audible conversation with God even though he was dead. Physically he didn't die for another 930 years. Spiritually he wasn't made alive until he was clothed with animal skins. Yet you say that a dead man can't bear fruit, can't speak to God.

Cain was a murderer.
1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
--Yet, even after Cain murdered his brother, God spoke to him and carried on a conversation with him. Cain was able to respond to God even though he was unrepentant and a murderer. How is that?

And then Cornelius, a Roman centurion who is described as a devout man, and one who prayed. Unsaved, God heard his prayers, and answered them. Not only did he answer them, but in his unsaved state God also appeared to Cornelius in a dream to tell him personally that his prayers were answered. And yet he still had not heard the Gospel. Peter still had not come and would not come for quite a few days yet.

Calvinism is just wrong. It is based on wrong assumptions.

 

DHK has been at it for a long time now. I told him way back on 4/14/2008 "I see you have remained on automatic pilot and fixated with your pet robot theme."

 

Who said anything about Calvinism, I'm not a Calvinist, I don't care what any man says, if I don't see it in scripture I reject it, God has not left His children in confusion.

 

DHK, I hope you realise that you have labeled yourself as Pelagian.

Question: "What are Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism?"

Answer: Pelagius was a monk who lived in the late 300s and early 400s A.D. Pelagius taught that human beings were born innocent, without the stain of original or inherited sin. He believed that God created every human soul directly and therefore every human soul was originally free from sin. Pelagius believed that Adam's sin did not affect future generations of humanity. This view became known as Pelagianism.

Pelagianism contradicts many Scriptures and scriptural principles. First, the Bible tells us that we are sinful from the moment of conception (Psalm 51:5). Further, the Bible teaches that all human beings die as a result of sin (Ezekiel 18:20; Romans 6:23). While Pelagianism says that human beings are not born with a natural inclination towards sin, the Bible says the opposite (Romans 3:10-18). Romans 5:12 clearly states that Adam's sin is the reason sin infects the rest of humanity. Anyone who has raised children can attest to the fact that infants must be taught to behave; they do not have to be taught how to sin. Pelagianism, therefore, is clearly unscriptural and should be rejected.

Semi-Pelagianism essentially teaches that humanity is tainted by sin, but not to the extent that we cannot cooperate with God's grace on our own. Semi-Pelagianism is, in essence, partial depravity as opposed to total depravity. The same Scripture passages that refute Pelagianism will also refute Semi-Pelagianism. Romans 3:10-18 definitely does not describe humanity as only being partially tainted by sin. The Bible clearly teaches that without God “drawing” us, we are incapable of cooperating with God's grace. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Like Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism is unbiblical and should be rejected.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Pelagianism.html#ixzz3SYiyV2pR

http://www.gotquestions.org/Pelagianism.html

 

Yeah, but Pelagius never repeatedly called people robots either...

 

Once a person is Born from above, he freely and willingly embraces the gospel because his nature has been changed from a natural man to a spiritual man, or a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.

I hope you don't preach that faith is a self-righteous act of man.

 

Where did you glean this from? I was poking at DHK, because he repeatedly states God doesn't make us robots. Like we would advocate such a stoopid thing...

 

Oh ok, sorry, it will take awhile to remember who is who, and at 55 years old I may forget more than I would like. Thankfully God has enabled me to retain what He has taught me.

 

Aw, little ole me is confusing Calvinist??? Gee Eddie, it could be the Calvinism that's confusing.....Let me ask you a question brother Icon, did God hate you while you were living in iniquity and lost before He then decided to love you?

 

It won't take you to long to see who post the personal attacks and who is able to ask and answer the tough questions. You said your not a Calvinist, I can understand why you do not want to be associate with that camp. It changes people who probably once were very loving to all the brethren...

 

Warning, you may need to watch Joel Olsteen to comfort you after watching the following video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBO07q0mHq4

 

You do know that all Christians are Calvinist, correct??

 

I haven't read much about John Calvin. I reject what he taught about baby baptism, baby baptism is not biblical.

 

You'll come around.....

 

Because I've studied the subject of baby baptism for about four years now, I have come to the conclusion that there is not one single verse in scripture that supports it.

 

Agreed. But we are still all Calvinist...some are still in rebellion to it... It's like all the elect are sheep, they just have not all been zapped into believing it yet.

 

:thumbsup:

LOL ok I know for absolutely for sure that I'm a five pointer, because I see it clearly in scripture, and I love the Sovereignty of God.

 

Silly question little Steaver! why is it silly?

God is not as man fickle and changeable as your question is worded to suggest this is indeed the situation.

Steaver...before hurting any more brain cells trying to think of these things in a twisted way....let us simplify this a bit.....

Come Steaver....let us reason together...

God has set His saving love on His people...those He is in Covenant with....those He intends to save.....hint....[that is not every person ever born]

Does that mean these people were Holy and sinless before they were born?

ans....No

They were conceived and born in sin...Eph2 tells us...even as others;

2 And you hath he quickened,
who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked
according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
\the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all
had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath,
even as others.


God had a plan for this Steaver....theologians speak of it as the Covenant of Redemption......which when given to man is called the Covenant of grace...

What does this plan look like?

Paul tells us and in doing so He answers your question....

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.


This mercy is extended to us who scripture calls the sheep, everyone believing, the elect, the church....even though you ,DHK, and others seek to speak out against this grace and mercy everyday....:wavey:


5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

 

You are starting to understand it Steaver.....good:laugh: Oh yes...you still mock and ridicule truth as we call it Calvinism....The teaching of Jesus and the Apostles and prophets.....yes Steaver...all Christians are Cals, just have not learned enough yet.....anything you believe that is truth from scripture...Cals believe:thumbs:

Here another brother explains he is a Calvinist in belief and yet has never read Calvin.:laugh:

Does this disturb you Steaver???? Cals are everywhere......This brother lives in Canada....DHK has not corrupted his studies....

He posts a sermon link of a pastor preaching on how God saves sinners and conforms them to the image of the Son....He believes in the biblical God that is absolutely Sovereign.....he does not limit God's Sovereignty as some do, who use the word stripped of all meaning....

 

Robert William

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Of course you do brother RW:thumbs: And you found it all in scripture as have millions before you and millions after you:thumbs:

Sadly...not all men have faith and many look at these truths and turn away worshipping the creature[free will] rather than the Creator.