SBC in the news & not in a good way

[Marooncat79]

Lets be careful, this horrendous sin happens in all types of churches and is not specific to any one

As long as churches defend Youth Groups the porential is just that much greater

Rom 5:1

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Walter, I am not minimizing the grievous sin in any particular camp RCC or Baptist. However, from your comments you should know that Baptists simply do not have the same mechanisms for dealing with this problem as the RCC.

 

[Walter]

Walter, I am not minimizing the grievous sin in any particular camp RCC or Baptist. However, from your comments you should know that Baptists simply do not have the same mechanisms for dealing with this problem as the RCC.

I agree, but cover ups have happened in many churches of various denominational ties with different polity.

 

[Walter]

Here is an example of what I consider 'shuffling' of pedophile clergy among evangelicals. A Presbyterian Church in America pastor by the name of Gene Dorrough was 'dismissed' from his church for failure to renew his contract (reason church gave), he then went on to establish his own non-denom church which experienced considerable growth and then the church let him go, no reason given. He landed in Exeter, Ca (my old hometown) in a Church of God (Anderson, In) in which he started a Celebrate Recovery group and was consequently ordained to be the churches assistant pastor. This was a very large church and had the means and ability to look into 'Rev' Dorroughs past appointments. When they did, all they got back were glowing reports of how much he grew the church and they were sorry to see him move on.

Turns out, each of the churches he had previously served in had actually dismissed him for Moral Turpitude! He had access to hundreds of children at the Church of God of Exeter and he had his way with not only some of them, but his own step-daughter. Both of the previous autonomous churches had every opportunity to inform COGE of the real reasons to AVOID him at all costs:

Exeter pastor sentenced to 25 yrs. in prison

Btw, Church of God, Exeter adamantly denied any wrongdoing had happened, not until overwhelming evidence convinced them to stop supporting this creep. The evidence wasn't the legal kind, it was two thirds of their congregation leaving because the leadership would not believe the children. I wonder how many times this plays out in other evangelical churches? By the looks of the stopbaptistpredators.com website, too often!

 

[church mouse guy]

Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse

You love to point fingers but ignore the filth in your own backyard!

I am not trying to point fingers but pointing out the news about what Archbishop Vigano has stirred up. Organizations such as Church Militant are emphatic that all Protestants go to hell, which is the traditional doctrine of the RCC. Even Martin Luther commented on homosexuality among priests in Rome.

The SBC leadership is heterodox so they need to go.

I think that child molesters and rapists in the SBC clergy should be arrested.

I do not think that homosexuals should be allowed to continue in the clergy.

The reform forces in the RCC seem to be amongst those attending the Latin Mass. I do not think that they will be successful unless parishioners stop donating money. We had Tobin here in Indianapolis and it is Catholics such as R. Emmett Tyrrell who have been the greatest critics of Tobin.

Another Catholic critic of Pope Francis is George Neumayr.

One of the problems is that the USA has so many homosexuals and they have so much money. The mayor of South Bend is homosexual and he is running for President.

No, the SBC may collapse into liberalism and needs to have rapists and child molesters arrested right now.

 

[church mouse guy]

Here is an example of what I consider 'shuffling' of pedophile clergy among evangelicals. A Presbyterian Church in America pastor by the name of Gene Dorrough was 'dismissed' from his church for failure to renew his contract (reason church gave), he then went on to establish his own non-denom church which experienced considerable growth and then the church let him go, no reason given. He landed in Exeter, Ca (my old hometown) in a Church of God (Anderson, In) in which he started a Celebrate Recovery group and was consequently ordained to be the churches assistant pastor. This was a very large church and had the means and ability to look into 'Rev' Dorroughs past appointments. When they did, all they got back were glowing reports of how much he grew the church and they were sorry to see him move on.

Turns out, each of the churches he had previously served in had actually dismissed him for Moral Turpitude! He had access to hundreds of children at the Church of God of Exeter and he had his way with not only some of them, but his own step-daughter. Both of the previous autonomous churches had every opportunity to inform COGE of the real reasons to AVOID him at all costs:

Exeter pastor sentenced to 25 yrs. in prison

Btw, Church of God, Exeter adamantly denied any wrongdoing had happened, not until overwhelming evidence convinced them to stop supporting this creep. The evidence wasn't the legal kind, it was two thirds of their congregation leaving because the leadership would not believe the children. I wonder how many times this plays out in other evangelical churches? By the looks of the stopbaptistpredators.com website, too often!

PCUSA went liberal 50 years ago and has ordained homosexuals and women for decades. Church of God in Anderson IN is Pentecostal and I don't hear much about them anymore. I doubt that they officially tolerate homosexuality and child molesters. It is the church of Sandy Patti who gives Christmas concerts with the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra annually.

 

[Walter]

PCUSA went liberal 50 years ago and has ordained homosexuals and women for decades. Church of God in Anderson IN is Pentecostal and I don't hear much about them anymore. I doubt that they officially tolerate homosexuality and child molesters. It is the church of Sandy Patti who gives Christmas concerts with the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra annually.

Presbyterian Church in America is not PCUSA, it is a conservative denomination. Church of God, Indiana is not pentecostal to my knowledge, perhaps you are confusing them with the Tennessee synod?

 

[Jerome]

Just to be clear, the report did not say they were "shuffled out the door to repeat..and let them skate"....The SBC puts the the abusers in jail....The fellowship in the SBC is far more likely to call the law, at least that's what the report indicates to me.

Because Baptists are highly autonomous, when abuse occurs the legal authorities are more often called upon to investigate.

Huh?
From where are you pulling these assertions?
Please read the report, it does not support what you are trying to put forth:

Report Part 1 "Southern Baptist sexual abuse spreads as leaders reject reforms"

Report Part 2 "Southern Baptist churches hired dozens of leaders previously accused of sex offenses"

 

[canadyjd]

I got it from the report. Hundreds of arrests and convictions. Did you see that info?

 

[church mouse guy]

Presbyterian Church in America is not PCUSA, it is a conservative denomination. Church of God, Indiana is not pentecostal to my knowledge, perhaps you are confusing them with the Tennessee synod?

Oh, thanks. I was wrong. Yes, we have Presbyterian Church in America here in Indianapolis and they have a beautiful building in one of the best parts of Indianapolis, which is becoming a big slum. I have talked to a lot of them and they have invited me to one of the weekly Bible studies, but I was unable to attend. It looks as if they fired the guy but he wasn't arrested. The victim has to press charges if there was a sex crime. And you are right about Church of God in Anderson--they are just a holiness church, although they do ordain women, which I disapprove. The Church of God, Cleveland, TN, I am more familiar with because I lived across the street from one once and knew a lady who went there. They are terrific.

 

[Adonia]

Headline: UK Daily Mail. "Revealed: Ministers, pastors, deacons, volunteers, and Sunday school teachers and among 250 Southern Baptist Church leaders and volunteers charged with sex abuse over the past 20 years, with victims as young as three". They "were among those named by the Houston Chronicle in an expansive investigation of abuse within the church"

It seems some 380 church members have faced allegations with 250 being actually charged. There are an estimated 700 victims with some as young as three years old. Three years old? Oh my! The sad part is that while many are now registered sexual offenders, the report stated that some 35 pastors, employees, and volunteers suspected of predatory behavior still found work in Christian ministry.

Mr. JD Greear the president of the Southern Baptist Convention, said he "broken" over the report. (And well he should be).

Well, well, well, now the truth has come out and we see that it's not only Catholic clergy who are involved in these type of serious crimes. We have been told ad nauseum that these things don't happen amongst married church leaders, that it's only a celibate clergy that does such things. I guess this report puts a lie to that often repeated claim.

 

[Walter]

Headline: UK Daily Mail. "Revealed: Ministers, pastors, deacons, volunteers, and Sunday school teachers and among 250 Southern Baptist Church leaders and volunteers charged with sex abuse over the past 20 years, with victims as young as three". They "were among those named by the Houston Chronicle in an expansive investigation of abuse within the church"

It seems some 380 church members have faced allegations with 250 being actually charged. There are an estimated 700 victims with some as young as three years old. Three years old? Oh my! The sad part is that while many are now registered sexual offenders, the report stated that some 35 pastors, employees, and volunteers suspected of predatory behavior still found work in Christian ministry.

Mr. JD Greear the president of the Southern Baptist Convention, said he "broken" over the report. (And well he should be).

Well, well, well, now the truth has come out and we see that it's not only Catholic clergy who are involved in these type of serious crimes. We have been told ad nauseum that these things don't happen amongst married church leaders, that it's only a celibate clergy that does such things. I guess this report puts a lie to that often repeated claim.

There is already a thread started covering this, but your comments are spot-on!

 

[canadyjd]

S*xual predators look for opportunities everywhere in society to commit their crimes. I guess the question is how our church membership and leadership respond to the allegations.

I have never seen anyone state that this kind of abuse doesn't happen among married clergy.

Unfortunately, you seem to want to make a comparison between C*tholic clergy and protestant (SBC) clergy concerning abuse.

I would simply point out the hundreds of convictions reported in the SBC and the relatively low number (35) of all the those involved in the various forms of abuse that were currently involved in churches in some way or another.

In a denomination of 10s of millions, the numbers are pretty low. It would be better if it were zero, but pretty low nevertheless.

 

[Revmitchell]

Huh?
From where are you pulling these assertions?
Please read the report, it does not support what you are trying to put forth:

Report Part 1 "Southern Baptist sexual abuse spreads as leaders reject reforms"

Report Part 2 "Southern Baptist churches hired dozens of leaders previously accused of sex offenses"

From report # 1:

"
SBC churches and organizations share resources and materials, and together they fund missionary trips and seminaries. Most pastors are ordained locally after they've convinced a small group of church elders that they've been called to service by God. There is no central database that tracks ordinations, or sexual abuse convictions or allegations.

All of that makes Southern Baptist churches highly susceptible to predators, says Christa Brown, an activist who wrote a book about being molested as a child by a pastor at her SBC church in Farmers Branch, a Dallas suburb.


"It's a perfect profession for a con artist, because all he has to do is talk a good talk and convince people that he's been called by God, and bingo, he gets to be a Southern Baptist minister," said Brown, who lives in Colorado. "Then he can infiltrate the entirety of the SBC, move from church to church, from state to state, go to bigger churches and more prominent churches where he has more influence and power, and it all starts in some small church."

This is absolutely false and while no one denies these incidents occur this report is a hit piece.

 

[Walter]

There are far more RCC than baptists in leadership positions in America. More that are judges, lawyers, congress members, members of the media, ...

The RCC is just evil. From the early days it has been a haven for perverts. It has taken the life and lively hood from believers and followers of Scriptures. It remains filled will excess and lies.

If someone is truly redeemed and knowledgable about Scripture principles, they will withdraw from fellowship and strongly proclaim against the RCC.

The RCC is nothing but a pimp for all matters of self indulgence.

Amy Smith, a SNAP representative in Houston, said the Southern Baptist Convention has a long history of ignoring abuse and enabling perpetrators by “continuing to elevate and place them in public positions of leadership and trust.”

We are evil? Maybe clean up your own backyard! The arrogance of evangelicals concerning the Catholic abuse mess is hypocritical. Those poor kids being submitted to self indulgent Baptists who pretend to want to lead them to Jesus is every bit as sickening and yet there are those here saying the abuse rates 'are pretty low'!

 

[Revmitchell]

Amy Smith, a SNAP representative in Houston, said the Southern Baptist Convention has a long history of ignoring abuse and enabling perpetrators by “continuing to elevate and place them in public positions of leadership and trust.”

We are evil? Maybe clean up your own backyard! The arrogance of evangelicals concerning the Catholic abuse mess is hypocritical. Those poor kids being submitted to self indulgent Baptists who pretend to want to lead them to Jesus is every bit as sickening and yet there are those here saying the abuse rates 'are pretty low'!

Uh no. Labeling individual churches as the convention is just wrong. The convention is not the individual churches and the individual churches are not the convention. Unlike the Catholic Churches. The Convention is not accountable for what the individual churches do. The National convention is autonomous, the state conventions are autonomous, the local associations are autonomous, and the local churches are autonomous. Hence we are a cooperative of Baptist Churches. So no, no hypocritical anything.

 

[carpro]

I doubt that any denomination is free of child abuse.

Some pedophiles would naturally gravitate toward a trusting environment where children are readily accessible. Any church would be a prime target.

 

[Walter]

Uh no. Labeling individual churches as the convention is just wrong. The convention is not the individual churches and the individual churches are not the convention. Unlike the Catholic Churches. The Convention is not accountable for what the individual churches do. The National convention is autonomous, the state conventions are autonomous, the local associations are autonomous, and the local churches are autonomous. Hence we are a cooperative of Baptist Churches. So no, no hypocritical anything.

I was responding to 'agedman' who declared Catholics are evil. And, before he comes back and says Catholics are not necessarily evil, the Church is evil; the Church is made up of Catholics, so he is labeling us evil. I would never say that about you or your church.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

NAMBLA Losing Members to the Catholic Church

NAMBLA Losing Members to the Catholic Church
November 2, 2006 by hecubus

Having seen the powerful documentary Deliver Us From Evil (required viewing for all Catholics) this past weekend at my local theater, my belief that the Catholic Church is nothing more than a front for NAMBLA has been reinforced tenfold.
The movie follows the carousings of Father Oliver O’Grady as he uses the Catholic cloak to diddle the private parts of young girls and boys, all under the strict supervision and full support of the Catholic Church. Whenever the heat from parents or law enforcement grew a bit too hot, O’Grady’s fellow NAMBLA members such as Cardinal Roger Mahoney (notable to those of us living in Southern California), forgave and blessed the Irish pederast, and sent him on his way to yet another community so that O’Grady could rack up more victims in the name of Jesus Christ, the Virgin Mary, the Catholic Church, and all those who call themselves Catholics.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

The SBC leadership is heterodox.

It would be interesting to see the results of a poll of the members of the SBC leadership on this issue. Do any of them have a documented track-record of dealing with church leaders associated with the SBC?

As has been pointed out, Baptist churches or autonomous. The leadership answers only to the membership. Therefore, there is on "defrocking" or "excommunication" process in place. To my knowledge, the removal of "ordination" might be the only recourse. The impact of that would be of little affect.