I've heard the term fellowships used, but in the context of a local area, where we did youth meetings, crusades, ect. Unless it became larger to the point that everyone didn't know who was looking...that could get out of hand.....ole Bro. so-and-so ain't satisfied...he's looking for another church...tinytim said:
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SBC vs. Independent
- Thread starter PreachTREE
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There are many small and a number of large IFB fellowships which network in this way: Southwide BF, Fundamental BF, Bible BF, GARB, etc. You can have this blessing of a denomination without the drawbacks of a denomination.tinytim said:
Tom Butler
New Member
John of Japan said:Brother Falwell quit being a Fundamentalist in my estimation way back in the 1970's when he started his Moral Majority and included Catholics, Mormons, etc. I was at a MM meeting when a Catholic priest on the platform was asked to pray. Call him and independent Baptist after that, don't call him an IFB.
Thanks for setting me straight. I hadn't thought about there being a difference between IBs and IFBs.
Well, to be strictly fair to Brother Falwell, he still called himself an IFB after that, but many Fundamentalists had become doubters. What put the icing on the cake was when he stepped in to help out Jim Bakker, of all people!Tom Butler said:
If you are really interested in the subject, Brother Falwell's apologists came out with two books back in the day: The Fundamentalist Phenomenon, by Dobson, Ed Hindson and Falwall himself (1981), and In Search of Unity by Ed Dobson (1985), advocating reunion with the evangelicals--which really ticked off IFBs!
Side note: Eddie Dobson is a BJU grad, and I heard him preach the sermon that won the Preacher Boys Contest there in '72. Tremendous sermon, and part of it sticks in my mind to this day. He started snapping his fingers and said, "Each time I snap my fingers a soul goes out into eternity!"
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
John,
A friend of mine also heard that sermon and one day decided to use that illustration in a sermon.
As he was going home he heard his daughter snapping her fingers. He thought she had really listened to the sermon and asked her what she was doing. She said "She was sending people to hell" :tongue3: :tonofbricks:
A friend of mine also heard that sermon and one day decided to use that illustration in a sermon.
As he was going home he heard his daughter snapping her fingers. He thought she had really listened to the sermon and asked her what she was doing. She said "She was sending people to hell" :tongue3: :tonofbricks:
SBC v IFB
Yes, SBC pastors have to candidate.
I was an IFB associate pastor in the 70's. Twelve miles away was another IFB church. They would not associate with us, even though we had families divided with membership in each church. That's too independent for me.
The SBC certainly has its problems, but not because they are SBC induced. Many of our churches consist of supposed Christians who are admitted into membership based on their baptism and who are as ignorant of Scripture thirty years after getting saved as they were the day they made their initial profession of faith. These churches, like IFB churches of the same nature, choose pastors that tickle their ears rather than those that will preach against their lethargy in spiritual matters.
IFB pastors have more say-so than SBC. In my last pastorate I was told many times: "You have no authority." That of course, is contrary to scripture. Why do I stay with the SBC? Because I believe that is where God wants me at this time. Our churches, as well as a great many others in the USA, need revival. That is what I work and pray for.
Yes, SBC pastors have to candidate.
I was an IFB associate pastor in the 70's. Twelve miles away was another IFB church. They would not associate with us, even though we had families divided with membership in each church. That's too independent for me.
The SBC certainly has its problems, but not because they are SBC induced. Many of our churches consist of supposed Christians who are admitted into membership based on their baptism and who are as ignorant of Scripture thirty years after getting saved as they were the day they made their initial profession of faith. These churches, like IFB churches of the same nature, choose pastors that tickle their ears rather than those that will preach against their lethargy in spiritual matters.
IFB pastors have more say-so than SBC. In my last pastorate I was told many times: "You have no authority." That of course, is contrary to scripture. Why do I stay with the SBC? Because I believe that is where God wants me at this time. Our churches, as well as a great many others in the USA, need revival. That is what I work and pray for.
John of Japan, I think you have been accurate in the assessments you've posted. I currently pastor an SBC church. My wife attended BJU and I attended Liberty. My wife grew up in IFB churches, while I grew up in Baptist Missionary Association (a Fundamental Landmark group)....and we now served in the SBC!! My inlaws attend Johnny Pope's church in Houston. I have found that there is still some misinformation about the SBC within the IFB ranks.
As others have mentioned, the liberalism that was present within the SBC seminaries, boards, pastors, and missionaries is going by the wayside. Most SBC pastors in my local association wear the name "Fundamentalist" with pride, though it is meant as a derogatory term by many.
Are there still problems within the SBC? Sure. One I am seeing is the reluctance to admit the error of sending children to public schools. At this year's Missouri Baptist Convention, one preacher cited many statistics of SBC youth never darkening the door of a church after they turn 18. What a tragedy!!! Know what his solution was?? Evangelize more!! I was shocked.....this "great pastor" has no clue. This is an area the IFBs are right on target with (i.e. abandoning public education in favor of home schooling) and the evidence is the large number of their youth that attend Bible college and serve the Lord.
Another prevalent SBC problem is Biblical illiteracy. Lifeway's Sunday School material isn't worth the paper it's printed on. They are sadly way too similar to Group Publishing, where their motto is "let's water the Bible down so much it is unrecognizable." These people are hungry for the Word of God! My wife teaches a high school S.S class and thankfully they've thrown out the quarterly S.S. books and gone with....surprise....THE BIBLE!!
I believe one of the posts mentioned pastoral authority. That is also a problem in many SBC churches. There is none at all in the BMA. The church I am in currently responds well to loving pastoral leadership, however I am afraid we are in the minority!
I would wholeheartedly send young men and women to schools like BJU, Maranatha, Northland, Tennessee Temple, Faith Baptist Bible College & Seminary (Iowa), Central Seminary (MN), Detroit Seminary, and Calvary Bible College & Seminary (MO). However, I couldn't endorse the Hyles-Andersons, Texas Baptist College, Pensacola, or Midwest.
Wow.....after all this I may be looking for an IFB church!!
P.S. We have Patch the Pirate Club at our SBC church!! Pretty funny huh!!
As others have mentioned, the liberalism that was present within the SBC seminaries, boards, pastors, and missionaries is going by the wayside. Most SBC pastors in my local association wear the name "Fundamentalist" with pride, though it is meant as a derogatory term by many.
Are there still problems within the SBC? Sure. One I am seeing is the reluctance to admit the error of sending children to public schools. At this year's Missouri Baptist Convention, one preacher cited many statistics of SBC youth never darkening the door of a church after they turn 18. What a tragedy!!! Know what his solution was?? Evangelize more!! I was shocked.....this "great pastor" has no clue. This is an area the IFBs are right on target with (i.e. abandoning public education in favor of home schooling) and the evidence is the large number of their youth that attend Bible college and serve the Lord.
Another prevalent SBC problem is Biblical illiteracy. Lifeway's Sunday School material isn't worth the paper it's printed on. They are sadly way too similar to Group Publishing, where their motto is "let's water the Bible down so much it is unrecognizable." These people are hungry for the Word of God! My wife teaches a high school S.S class and thankfully they've thrown out the quarterly S.S. books and gone with....surprise....THE BIBLE!!
I believe one of the posts mentioned pastoral authority. That is also a problem in many SBC churches. There is none at all in the BMA. The church I am in currently responds well to loving pastoral leadership, however I am afraid we are in the minority!
I would wholeheartedly send young men and women to schools like BJU, Maranatha, Northland, Tennessee Temple, Faith Baptist Bible College & Seminary (Iowa), Central Seminary (MN), Detroit Seminary, and Calvary Bible College & Seminary (MO). However, I couldn't endorse the Hyles-Andersons, Texas Baptist College, Pensacola, or Midwest.
Wow.....after all this I may be looking for an IFB church!!
P.S. We have Patch the Pirate Club at our SBC church!! Pretty funny huh!!
:laugh: :laugh: Out of the mouths of babes!Tom Bryant said:
Good and informative post, MJohnson7!mjohnson7 said:
By the way, your inlaws should remember us. We were at Brother Pope's missionary conference on our furlough last year, and they took us on for support. :thumbs:
mjohnson7 said:
Good post from the SBC pastors. Thanks for the info. a couple of questions....
What is the scoop on Pensacola Christian College as far as not recommending?
and
Would there be any interest out there for SS lessons, KJV, Many references, written by a TTU (the old TTU), IFB pastor. I have been thinking that we may have 20 years of lessons stored, ready to place either in a loose leaf book, so the church could make copies, or maybe set up to download. They are set up in "series", such as the one we are starting for 2007, which will be a complete study of the Book of John.
The cover has a place for the Church name, date, a cartoon or puzzle and the church using it would customize it. Inside left page there is a "golden text", then some notes to teachers, the Aim of the Lesson, a list of other scriptures, a brief illustration or sidebar, then on the inside right page - the outline of the lesson with some notes and scripture references. The back cover has a quiz on the lesson...simple for anyone quiz, and a scripture reference for the next week.
If these were compiled and offered on a CD for 1 year of lessons...what would be a fair value, with proceeds going back into the Lord's work.
I've never heard of this. My understanding is that the amount is $1 to send a messenger to the convention. Remember that no church is part of the SBC. There is no such thing except for two days a year. There is no church organizational matrix within the SBC.
I grew up IFB and am now SBC. Truthfully, there isn't much difference. Here locally, they're identical except SBC churches do missions and evangelism while IFBs oppose both. Someone said pastors have more say so in the IFB churches. The opposite is true in my experience. It's all relative, isn't it?
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TomVols said:
You must be joking! IFB churches that oppose missions and evangelism? Are you sure they are not Primitive Baptists of some kind?
Rob't K. Fall
New Member
From the Perspective of a Historic Baptist
Right now I have In Pursuit of Purity on my bedside table. I've also read though Francis Wayland's 1856 work, Notes on the Principles and Practices of Baptist Churches. Add to these books, my home church Hamilton Square Bapt. of San Francisco celebrated her 125th anniversary this year. So, I think I'm prepared to wade in with a semi-educated opinion. Mind you, I can only speak with any sembalance of authority about the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship aka FBF.
I could write (and I started to do so) a looong post on this subject. However, I decided not to cause your eyes to glaze over with information overload.
After seeing the debacle in the organizing of the Northern Baptist Convention (1907) and later experiencing the debacle of organizing the Conservative Baptist Association (c. 1947 the split :BangHead: coming in c. 1964), many Historic Northern Baptists saw the need for an organization of men not of churches. Such an organization is in line with Wayland's dictum of "a Baptist Church can not be represented."
I'll be happy to expand on this if anybody is interested. Just ask the question and I'll try to answer it.
Rob.
Right now I have In Pursuit of Purity on my bedside table. I've also read though Francis Wayland's 1856 work, Notes on the Principles and Practices of Baptist Churches. Add to these books, my home church Hamilton Square Bapt. of San Francisco celebrated her 125th anniversary this year. So, I think I'm prepared to wade in with a semi-educated opinion. Mind you, I can only speak with any sembalance of authority about the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship aka FBF.
I could write (and I started to do so) a looong post on this subject. However, I decided not to cause your eyes to glaze over with information overload.
After seeing the debacle in the organizing of the Northern Baptist Convention (1907) and later experiencing the debacle of organizing the Conservative Baptist Association (c. 1947 the split :BangHead: coming in c. 1964), many Historic Northern Baptists saw the need for an organization of men not of churches. Such an organization is in line with Wayland's dictum of "a Baptist Church can not be represented."
I'll be happy to expand on this if anybody is interested. Just ask the question and I'll try to answer it.
Rob.
John of Japan said:
Rob't K. Fall
New Member
Must be PB's or heading in that direction. A root cause of the founding of the Conservative Bapt Assoc. and the post '64 FBF is missions. In particular, the need for doctrinal purity on the field.John of Japan said:TomVols said:
You must be joking! IFB churches that oppose missions and evangelism? Are you sure they are not Primitive Baptists of some kind?
Exactly! And the GARB folk were not long in establishing their mission boards, and in the South the SBF folk started BIMI in 1960. And with men like Norris, Rice, etc. pushing personal evangelism right from the start, IFBs have always emphasized soul-winning. So I've never in my life met an IFB opposed to missions or evangelism. It's startling to me to hear of the possibility of such.Rob't K. Fall said:
It's worth noting the Primative Baptists split off from the Historic Baptist lineage represented by Rob, John, and myself in the early 19th century. I would say we represent the Fullerite line rather than the Gillite line of theology.
Exactly, Squire, Fullerite and then some. So I'm eager to hear again from TomVols about these IFBs who oppose evangelism and missions.Squire Robertsson said:
North Carolina Tentmaker
New Member
Sorry to disappoint you John but I have to confirm what TomVols is saying. I live about 50 miles south of him and most IFB churches here oppose both missions and evangelism. This is part of the reason we have left the IFB church where we are members and are now attending a SBC church.John of Japan said:
You must be joking! IFB churches that oppose missions and evangelism? Are you sure they are not Primitive Baptists of some kind?
The attitude of most of the mountain IFB churches is that unless you have relatives in the church already you are not really welcome. They will make exceptions if you look like us, talk like us, have relatives we know, and are willing to conform and not make waves. Outsiders need to stay outside.
Compare that to the SBC churches having community wide youth evangelism meetings, running busses, and actually inviting non members to attend. In our local IFB circles that just does not happen anymore.
I am truly disappointed. That is sad! Well, I've never said there weren't problems in the IFB movement, and there are obviously serious problems in it in your area. May God send revival. :tear:North Carolina Tentmaker said:
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