SBC vs. Independent

[John of Japan]

John, do you know any ABC missionaries?
Specifically, David and Lisa Turley?

Brother Tim, Sorry, I don't. The ABC missionaries are all way down South, so there are none on our island.

Are the Turleys new to Japan? I don't find them in the 2006 JEMA Directory of all the Protestant missionaries to Japan.

 

[PreachTREE]

PreachTREE, We older IFB's are trying to train our young generation to seperate from the world. We are trying to raise a generation the will hold the fort, take a stand for Christ.

I know the intent of these classes. I just don't know why we are being taught what happened in the past to dictate what we do now. Why separate from the SBC when in fact they are headed the right direction now?

Would our institutions hire any SBC professors? I doubt it, because of their toleration of liberalism in the past.

If you want to see where liberalism is headed, all you have to do is look at Europe, where what some call "relativism" is in place. Nothing is wrong, it is all "relative".

I don't think IFBs and the SBC working together is the result of Post-modernism. If we do work together, it'll look more like historic fundamentalism; an interdenominational effort to stand on truth.

I'd love to know what school was teaching the "fundamentalism" class, to see how it was slanted.

Maranatha Baptist



Thanks for the dialogue everyone.

 

[tinytim]

They were there at least 5 yrs ago, they came back here to do some things, then they have either went back or are planning on it. I messed up their names also.. it is David and LESLIE Turley... not Lisa.

The ABC is changing the way we support missionaries too.
More like Independent than SBC.
Our missionaries are forming partnership teams. And churches can pick the missionary they want to support... The teams are responsible for recruiting support. That way, the missionary can stay on the field.

Our church is looking at a missionary in Bolivia to adopt.
Since I grew up IFB, I feel more at home with this concept than the old one.

 

[Tom Butler]

Well, we SBCers have our problems, but they aren't being ignored. A group of young conservative leaders are starting to nip at the heels of the old guard.

We eventually are going to have to deal with the Emergent Church movement, the pragmatism of the church growth movement, as well as tongues and Calvinism. Some sooner, some down the road.

On the positive side, every elected leader of the SBC is a conservative, as are the trustees of every board and agency. It would not be a stretch to say that they are all inerrantists.

I think it's interesting that Jerry Falwell's Liberty Baptist Church has now affiliated with the SBC. The largest independent Baptist church in my city has done the same.

If you IFBers are looking for the perfect denomination, when you find it, don't join it. It won't be perfect any more. It'll be just like us SBCers. Imperfect.

 

[tinytim]

Peachtree...
Have you ever heard if you don't learn history, you are bound to repeat it?
I just told my 15 yr old that today when he said that world history is useless! lol

 

[PreachTREE]

Peachtree...
Have you ever heard if you don't learn history, you are bound to repeat it?
I just told my 15 yr old that today when he said that world history is useless! lol

Learning history is imporant. I just don't believe in treating existing organizations, denominations, etc. as they were historically.

Learn history. Be more discerning. I believe we shouldn't treat "them" as grandpa did. Things are different. Our separation should be based on truth rather than tradition.

 

[John of Japan]

I know the intent of these classes. I just don't know why we are being taught what happened in the past to dictate what we do now. Why separate from the SBC when in fact they are headed the right direction now?.

How can you avoid the errors of the future without knowing the past?

Would our institutions hire any SBC professors? I doubt it, because of their toleration of liberalism in the past.

I guarantee that at this point your school would not hire SBC profs! (I have an M. A. from there.) :tongue3:

I don't think IFBs and the SBC working together is the result of Post-modernism. If we do work together, it'll look more like historic fundamentalism; an interdenominational effort to stand on truth.

But what is the need? The institutions of the two groups are very distinct in policy and methodology.

The truth is, there are some IFBs meeting with SBCs talking about cooperation, in particular in the Southwide Baptist Fellowship. As for me, though I see no problem with individual friendships, the SBC has a ways to go before I would consider cooperation.

 

[tinytim]

I agree with you..
But if the same problems exist today, we should learn from our fore fathers their methods of handling the problems...

We may, or may not, want to do the same things, but it does give us options.

Maybe we should be asking if the same problems exist today as they did then.

 

[John of Japan]

They were there at least 5 yrs ago, they came back here to do some things, then they have either went back or are planning on it. I messed up their names also.. it is David and LESLIE Turley... not Lisa.

The ABC is changing the way we support missionaries too.
More like Independent than SBC.
Our missionaries are forming partnership teams. And churches can pick the missionary they want to support... The teams are responsible for recruiting support. That way, the missionary can stay on the field.

Our church is looking at a missionary in Bolivia to adopt.
Since I grew up IFB, I feel more at home with this concept than the old one.

Interesting development!

Question: has the ABC instituted any measures to prevent liberal missionaries from going out under the board like the SBC has?

 

[tinytim]

In all honesty, I don't know, but I doubt it.

But by putting the power back into the actual hands of the church on who they support, the churches will have more control than they do now.

 

[tinytim]

JOJ, I am trying to find the info on the net, and if I do, I will post a link.

 

[tinytim]

Here is a link describing the new way we are doing missions....

http://216.30.200.250/JOAN WEB PAGES/MPT 9-06.pdf

 

[John of Japan]

If you IFBers are looking for the perfect denomination, when you find it, don't join it. It won't be perfect any more. It'll be just like us SBCers. Imperfect.

Ah, yes, Brother Tom, but we IFBs don't believe in denominations!

 

[John of Japan]

In all honesty, I don't know, but I doubt it.

But by putting the power back into the actual hands of the church on who they support, the churches will have more control than they do now.

And that is a good development, a step in the right direction. With the ABC history of difficulties with liberal missionaries, I hope they continue their trend towards local church accountability. As you must know, the Conservative Baptists came out of the ABC (then the Northern Baptists) many years ago because of this very issue.

Thanks for the link. I checked it out. :thumbsup:

 

[racer84]

Learning history is imporant. I just don't believe in treating existing organizations, denominations, etc. as they were historically.

Learn history. Be more discerning. I believe we shouldn't treat "them" as grandpa did. Things are different. Our separation should be based on truth rather than tradition.

Good points. Doesn't it really come down the the leadership in the pulpit, either SBC or IFB? I mean there are liberal independent baptist that call themselves fundamental, but maybe not as fundamental as mine. And likewise a SBC that is fundamental, might be down the street from a liberal SBC. Anyway, when and SBC needs a pastor, do they get one dispatched from HQ, or do they canidate like and IFB. Does anyone know how many SBC's there are? and IFB's? Care to rate them, percentage wise....liberal vs conservative?

 

[tinytim]

I believe in church autonomy with all my heart.
And I know that the ABC has it's liberal share of problems... (pun?)
But I do see hope in that we are being reminded that we have the power for change, not the general board....

But that is enough about ABC.. sorry, I kinda hijacked the thread...my bad.

 

[John of Japan]

I think it's interesting that Jerry Falwell's Liberty Baptist Church has now affiliated with the SBC. The largest independent Baptist church in my city has done the same.

Brother Falwell quit being a Fundamentalist in my estimation way back in the 1970's when he started his Moral Majority and included Catholics, Mormons, etc. I was at a MM meeting when a Catholic priest on the platform was asked to pray. Call him and independent Baptist after that, don't call him an IFB.

 

[tinytim]

Good points. Doesn't it really come down the the leadership in the pulpit, either SBC or IFB? I mean there are liberal independent baptist that call themselves fundamental, but maybe not as fundamental as mine. And likewise a SBC that is fundamental, might be down the street from a liberal SBC. Anyway, when and SBC needs a pastor, do they get one dispatched from HQ, or do they canidate like and IFB. Does anyone know how many SBC's there are? and IFB's? Care to rate them, percentage wise....liberal vs conservative?

I have always assumed the SBCs candidate for pastor.
in the ABC when we sense God leading us, we release our profile, which gets circulated statewide to pulpit committees, they look it over, then call the one they feel God wants them to. Then the minister will candidate for the church. If it is done right, it is a beautiful thing.

That is one plus to belonging to a denomination. When I was IFB, the only way we had to look for candidates were by word of mouth.

 

[racer84]

That is one plus to belonging to a denomination. When I was IFB, the only way we had to look for candidates were by word of mouth.

As you know, we are doing that now, and I could see where having a list of those feeling called to move would be helpful

 

[tinytim]

It has been a while since I was IFB here in WV.. around 17 yrs now.
But don't IFBs have some sort of "fellowship" in which something like this could be developed?

I know the IFBs in WV didn't believe in joining associations, but they joined "fellowships" of about 15 to 20 churches to meet to get things done together. If there were someway to link these fellowships together for the purpose of sharing info on available pastors, it would strengthen the IFBs.

Or some sorta database, or something...