Scripture dictation, mechanical or otherwise

[Yeshua1]

Jones also believed in verbal-plenary inspiration. It was just that he thought the term "dictation" should not be used to describe inspiration. So one does not have to use the term "dictation" to describe it, but to Rice it was a useful term.

I just see that term to mean that one sees the Apostles as just starting to write down, and the Holy Spirit took therm over, almost like how in the occult there is "messages from beyond" Like going off into a "trance state"

 

[SavedByGrace]

Did Luke collect various eye witnesses testimonies and put therm together, as a reporter does his own sources, in order to make a story?

Everything written is from God the Holy Spirit. 100%

 

[John of Japan]

Did Luke collect various eye witnesses testimonies and put therm together, as a reporter does his own sources, in order to make a story?

Rice believed that the word anothen (ἄνωθεν) in Luke 1:3, "from the very first" in the KJV, should have been translated "from above." He did not believe that Luke had to do research, but that the Holy Spirit supplied him with all the historical facts he needed.

 

[John of Japan]

I just see that term to mean that one sees the Apostles as just starting to write down, and the Holy Spirit took therm over, almost like how in the occult there is "messages from beyond" Like going off into a "trance state"

That's not how Gaussen, Rice, et al, meant it.

 

[Yeshua1]

Rice believed that the word anothen (ἄνωθεν) in Luke 1:3, "from the very first" in the KJV, should have been translated "from above." He did not believe that Luke had to do research, but that the Holy Spirit supplied him with all the historical facts he needed.

Did not the good Dr Luke himself state though that he went out and collected the stories from the very eyewitnesses of the Lord Jesus?

 

[Yeshua1]

That's not how Gaussen, Rice, et al, meant it.

I am speaking towards the term of "mechanical dictation"

 

[Yeshua1]

Everything written is from God the Holy Spirit. 100%

One who holds to verbal plenary, but not mechanical dictation, would agree with that 100%!

 

[SavedByGrace]

I do not believe that anyone can hold to a verbal plenary Inspiration of the Bible, without it also being dictational

 

[Marooncat79]

Luke and Paul did not write down as Amos or as Peter did!

Thank You.

That was my point.

Each writer used different linguistic skills i would think that Mech Dict would reveal a single vocabulary, sentence structure etc.

Somebody blew me up over my comment, but he/she always blows me up. Lol.

 

[Marooncat79]

I do not believe that anyone can hold to a verbal plenary Inspiration of the Bible, without it also being dictational

Says you!!

 

[Marooncat79]

Says you!!

See, I can be much more petty than you. Haha.

Not that its right at all

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not believe that anyone can hold to a verbal plenary Inspiration of the Bible, without it also being dictational

NOT mechanical dictation though!

 

[rlvaughn]

No mechanical dictation...

...not mechanical dictation...

Would either of you care to define what you mean by the term "mechanical dictation"?

Thanks.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Would either of you care to define what you mean by the term "mechanical dictation"?

Thanks.

The Holy Bible IS The Infallible, Inerrant, Word of God to us humans. God the Holy Spirit "dictated" the very Words that the Writers of the 66 Books were to use. However, the "way" that each Writer wrote, the Holy Spirit allowed. Hence, Luke being a foremost Historian, says in Chapter 1 of his Gospel,

"Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us. They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples. Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write an accurate account for you, most honorable Theophilus, so you can be certain of the truth of everything you were taught" (verses 1-4)

Here we are told that Luke "carefully investigated everything from the beginning", in his own "way", to ensure that what he recorded in his Gospel, is completely factual, and trustworthy. The Holy Spirit would have "directed" Luke to what exactly he needed to "investigate", and then given Luke the exact Words to write. Matthew Mark and John probably did not use this "style" in their Writing of their Gospel.

In 1 Corinthians 7:12, for example, where Paul is giving advice on relationships, he says, "And to the rest I speak—not the Lord". In verse 10 he said, "and to the married I announce—not I, but the Lord". In verse 40 Paul tells us, "according to my judgment; and I think I also have the Spirit of God".

"mechanical dictation", removes any "human element" from the "way" the Books were written.

 

[Stratton7]

SGB, you’ve written on different occasions that:

As they were moved] φερομενοι. Forcibly moved, acted, carried out of themselves to say and do what God would have them

It is like the Holy Spirit took hold of the hands of the Writers of the Books of the Bible, and "made" them write what He wanted them to write, and they were simply passive instruments in this process.

But your description of mechanical dictation you say:

"mechanical dictation", removes any "human element" from the "way" the Books were written.

So I understand from John of Japan mechanical can just be used as a slur, which by no means is what I’m implying.

Just going by your words, you would call what you believed to have happened to be mechanical and not just dictation as you’ve stated? It seems like the human aspect is missing from your second quote I posted if they were “made” to write and were only passively instrumental.

 

[SavedByGrace]

SGB, you’ve written on different occasions that:



But your description of mechanical dictation you say:

So I understand from John of Japan mechanical can just be used as a slur, which by no means is what I’m implying.

Just going by your words, you would call what you believed to have happened to be mechanical and not just dictation as you’ve stated? It seems like the human aspect is missing from your second quote I posted if they were “made” to write and were only passively instrumental.

The "human" aspect is as much as they "way/style" that the Writers used, as I said with Luke, that as an historian he researched thoroughly, all that we wrote in His Gospel. I do believe however, that when it came to writing down what he had found out, that the Holy Spirit then took over and "dictated" what he should right. The end result must be that what is written, is The Word of God, and only then can it be Infallible and Inerrant. I cannot see any other way that this can be preserved in the text.

 

[Stratton7]

The "human" aspect is as much as they "way/style" that the Writers used, as I said with Luke, that as an historian he researched thoroughly, all that we wrote in His Gospel. I do believe however, that when it came to writing down what he had found out, that the Holy Spirit then took over and "dictated" what he should right. The end result must be that what is written, is The Word of God, and only then can it be Infallible and Inerrant. I cannot see any other way that this can be preserved in the text.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Yeshua1]

Would either of you care to define what you mean by the term "mechanical dictation"?

Thanks.

I would see it as being same way Muslims view the Koran, as the authors of the scriptures just wrote down what the Holy Spirit gave to them period, as they had nothing at all to do with final product other then having God move their hands to record it down. I reject that view, as do see the Lord allowing them to record as they desired based upon their own vocabulary and style and way of writing, but the Holy Spirit made sure finished product free of all errors and mistakes!

 

[Yeshua1]

The Holy Bible IS The Infallible, Inerrant, Word of God to us humans. God the Holy Spirit "dictated" the very Words that the Writers of the 66 Books were to use. However, the "way" that each Writer wrote, the Holy Spirit allowed. Hence, Luke being a foremost Historian, says in Chapter 1 of his Gospel,

"Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us. They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples. Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write an accurate account for you, most honorable Theophilus, so you can be certain of the truth of everything you were taught" (verses 1-4)

Here we are told that Luke "carefully investigated everything from the beginning", in his own "way", to ensure that what he recorded in his Gospel, is completely factual, and trustworthy. The Holy Spirit would have "directed" Luke to what exactly he needed to "investigate", and then given Luke the exact Words to write. Matthew Mark and John probably did not use this "style" in their Writing of their Gospel.

In 1 Corinthians 7:12, for example, where Paul is giving advice on relationships, he says, "And to the rest I speak—not the Lord". In verse 10 he said, "and to the married I announce—not I, but the Lord". In verse 40 Paul tells us, "according to my judgment; and I think I also have the Spirit of God".

"mechanical dictation", removes any "human element" from the "way" the Books were written.

Luke would put together his books as a Dr would, and peter would use materials and wrote it down as a fisher man would!

 

[Yeshua1]

The "human" aspect is as much as they "way/style" that the Writers used, as I said with Luke, that as an historian he researched thoroughly, all that we wrote in His Gospel. I do believe however, that when it came to writing down what he had found out, that the Holy Spirit then took over and "dictated" what he should right. The end result must be that what is written, is The Word of God, and only then can it be Infallible and Inerrant. I cannot see any other way that this can be preserved in the text.

The Prophets and Apostles spoke and wrote unique to themselves, but were still all inspired!