Scripture - given to the world or the Church?

[JonC]

Scripture seems to be fairly clear that it is given to the believer in equipping and teaching those who are Christians.

2 Timothy 3:16-17: All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Romans 15:4-6 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Scripture seems to teach that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who are being saved, but to the world it is foolishness.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Until recently I believe that this was a common belief among Christians. But I have discovered that not all Christians agree with these passages.

 

[alexander284]

Atheists often know what Scripture states better than Christians (and are able to quote the Bible, word for word).

They use their knowledge of what the Bible says as a useful tool in their arguments against Christianity.

Just thought I'd point that out (based on personal experience).

 

[JonC]

Atheists often know what Scripture states better than Christians (and are able to quote the Bible, word for word).

They use their knowledge of what the Bible says as a useful tool in their arguments against Christianity.

Just thought I'd point that out (based on personal experience).

Yes. I know of an atheist who memorized much of Scripture.

Those who are not saved cannot understand spiritual things. Scripture is spiritual. It is God's revelation of Himself to man. To the lost, Scripture is elusive. It is moral mythology. The Spirit works in us to reveal truth that has already been given in Scripture (spiritual truth, not facts and data).

 

[alexander284]

Yes. I know of an atheist who memorized much of Scripture.

Those who are not saved cannot understand spiritual things. Scripture is spiritual. It is God's revelation of Himself to man. To the lost, Scripture is elusive. It is moral mythology. The Spirit works in us to reveal truth that has already been given in Scripture (spiritual truth, not facts and data).

I'm wondering if this helps answer question posed in the OP somehow?

 

[Particular]

Romans 10:5,8-15 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

 

[JonC]

Romans 10:5,8-15 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

To whom did Moses write? To Egypt? To Persia? Paul says that the Law was given to all humanity....wait...no....he says the Law was given to Israel and not the world.

How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the GOSPEL (the gospel is the "good news". And no one said that the gospel is not to be preached to the world.

BUT Scripture does say that it is given to those who believe AND Scripture does say that the gospel is foolishness to the world.

And Scripture seems at least to hint that Scripture is for those who are spiritually alive and its understanding is a spiritual issue for it communicates spiritual truth.

We just have to agree to disagree. I believe that the Church is for believers, not the lost, and Scripture is for the Church. Christians share the gospel with the lost, but they do not have Bible studies with the lost so that they know what they cannot understand or believe. The lost need the gospel, not the whole of Scripture. We are dependent on the Spirit, not our intellect, to understand spiritual things.

It looks like there may be a resurgence of the intellectualism that plagued evangelicalism in the past. The mindset that Scripture is what we need apart from the Spirit (that the lost need to learn Scripture) is not a safe doctrine, IMHO.

 

[Particular]

To whom did Moses write? To Egypt? To Persia? Paul says that the Law was given to all humanity....wait...no....he says the Law was given to Israel and not the world.

How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the GOSPEL (the gospel is the "good news". And no one said that the gospel is not to be preached to the world.

BUT Scripture does say that it is given to those who believe AND Scripture does say that the gospel is foolishness to the world.

And Scripture seems at least to hint that Scripture is for those who are spiritually alive and its understanding is a spiritual issue for it communicates spiritual truth.

We just have to agree to disagree. I believe that the Church is for believers, not the lost, and Scripture is for the Church. Christians share the gospel with the lost, but they do not have Bible studies with the lost so that they know what they cannot understand or believe. The lost need the gospel, not the whole of Scripture. We are dependent on the Spirit, not our intellect, to understand spiritual things.

It looks like there may be a resurgence of the intellectualism that plagued evangelicalism in the past. The mindset that Scripture is what we need apart from the Spirit (that the lost need to learn Scripture) is not a safe doctrine, IMHO.

How then shall they believe if scripture is not provided? Why do you ignore the fact that God uses scripture to save those who are dead in their trespasses and sins?
Moreso, you tire me with your gnat straining.

 

[Reynolds]

How then shall they believe if scripture is not provided? Why do you ignore the fact that God uses scripture to save those who are dead in their trespasses and sins?
Moreso, you tire me with your gnat straining.

I think the point JonC made is very relevant.
He is no longer a moderator. You can ignore him if he annoys you so badly.

 

[Yeshua1]

Scripture seems to be fairly clear that it is given to the believer in equipping and teaching those who are Christians.

2 Timothy 3:16-17: All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Romans 15:4-6 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Scripture seems to teach that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who are being saved, but to the world it is foolishness.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Until recently I believe that this was a common belief among Christians. But I have discovered that not all Christians agree with these passages.

Can you be more specific on how and why they would disagree with you on those passages?

 

[Yeshua1]

Atheists often know what Scripture states better than Christians (and are able to quote the Bible, word for word).

They use their knowledge of what the Bible says as a useful tool in their arguments against Christianity.

Just thought I'd point that out (based on personal experience).

Cults do that also , as believe that the JW claim the largest group that switched were former baptists!

 

[Yeshua1]

To whom did Moses write? To Egypt? To Persia? Paul says that the Law was given to all humanity....wait...no....he says the Law was given to Israel and not the world.

How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the GOSPEL (the gospel is the "good news". And no one said that the gospel is not to be preached to the world.

BUT Scripture does say that it is given to those who believe AND Scripture does say that the gospel is foolishness to the world.

And Scripture seems at least to hint that Scripture is for those who are spiritually alive and its understanding is a spiritual issue for it communicates spiritual truth.

We just have to agree to disagree. I believe that the Church is for believers, not the lost, and Scripture is for the Church. Christians share the gospel with the lost, but they do not have Bible studies with the lost so that they know what they cannot understand or believe. The lost need the gospel, not the whole of Scripture. We are dependent on the Spirit, not our intellect, to understand spiritual things.

It looks like there may be a resurgence of the intellectualism that plagued evangelicalism in the past. The mindset that Scripture is what we need apart from the Spirit (that the lost need to learn Scripture) is not a safe doctrine, IMHO.

its not either or though, as some of the greatest minds of all time were believers in Jesus!

 

[Yeshua1]

How then shall they believe if scripture is not provided? Why do you ignore the fact that God uses scripture to save those who are dead in their trespasses and sins?
Moreso, you tire me with your gnat straining.

Is not the Gospel scriptures being taken out to the lost sinners in the world?

 

[JonC]

How then shall they believe if scripture is not provided?

I'm sorry, I missed this reference. What passage are you quoting here?

I do not see how determining to whom Scripture is given to be straining a gnat. It actually seems to be an important question.

Do you believe it is straining a gnat to ask to whom Christ was given?

 

[JonC]

I think the point JonC made is very relevant.
He is no longer a moderator. You can ignore him if he annoys you so badly.

Or not post on threads I have started.

If I considered myself to be ignorant and asinine the last person I'd seek to engage would be me.

 

[Iconoclast]

How then shall they believe if scripture is not provided? Why do you ignore the fact that God uses scripture to save those who are dead in their trespasses and sins?
Moreso, you tire me with your gnat straining.

When a person pushes a wrong position they have to keep straining to try and get the square peg in the round hole.

prov1:5
A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

1:77 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

[JonC]

When a person pushes a wrong position they have to keep straining to try and get the square peg in the round hole.

Yea. No kidding.

I've repeatedly provided Scripture saying that Scripture is not for the "world", that Scripture is for equipping godly men, that Scripture is given to the Church but some keep trying to shove their peg where it can never fit.

(I almost posted something inappropriate by accident....I mean really inappropriate. Let's move from the square peg and round hole thing and just stick with Scripture).

I have provided several passages teaching that Scripture is given to the Christian (to godly men, to the Church) and that the world does not understand Scripture.

Do you have a passage that states Scripture is given to the lost people of this world?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

How then shall they believe if scripture is not provided? Why do you ignore the fact that God uses scripture to save those who are dead in their trespasses and sins?
Moreso, you tire me with your gnat straining.

[1Co 1:18, 23 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. ... 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Preaching the gospel to people whom God has not chosen to hear it is foolishness. But, preach we must for it is commanded by Christ.
[Mar 16:15 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He says go, He does not say stay at all cost.

What is the result if they reject our preaching?
[Mat 10:14 KJV] 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
[Luk 10:11 KJV] 11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

What is the result of today's mission efforts of spreading the gospel if their efforts are rejected?
Build health clinics
Build schools
Build churches

Satan is very efficient at draining the resources of God's people through mostly making them feel guilty if there efforts do not win souls!

 

[Particular]

[1Co 1:18, 23 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. ... 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Preaching the gospel to people whom God has not chosen to hear it is foolishness. But, preach we must for it is commanded by Christ.
[Mar 16:15 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He says go, He does not say stay at all cost.

What is the result if they reject our preaching?
[Mat 10:14 KJV] 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
[Luk 10:11 KJV] 11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

What is the result of today's mission efforts of spreading the gospel if their efforts are rejected?
Build health clinics
Build schools
Build churches

Satan is very efficient at draining the resources of God's people through mostly making them feel guilty if there efforts do not win souls!

Wes, I agree that those who are not made alive with Christ cannot discern the truth of scripture. However, that does not mean we withhold scripture from the spiritually dead.
God's word is active in bringing the elect to salvation.

Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Wes, I agree that those who are not made alive with Christ cannot discern the truth of scripture. However, that does not mean we withhold scripture from the spiritually dead.
God's word is active in bringing the elect to salvation.

Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

I agree, we are not to withhold the scripture. As noted in my post you are refferencing:

Preaching the gospel to people whom God has not chosen to hear it is foolishness. But, preach we must for it is commanded by Christ.
[Mar 16:15 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He says go, He does not say stay at all cost.

 

[alexander284]

Yea. No kidding.

I've repeatedly provided Scripture saying that Scripture is not for the "world", that Scripture is for equipping godly men, that Scripture is given to the Church but some keep trying to shove their peg where it can never fit.

(I almost posted something inappropriate by accident....I mean really inappropriate. Let's move from the square peg and round hole thing and just stick with Scripture).

I have provided several passages teaching that Scripture is given to the Christian (to godly men, to the Church) and that the world does not understand Scripture.

Do you have a passage that states Scripture is given to the lost people of this world?

I'm guessing many of us here, like myself, have taken Bible courses at secular universities, where study Bibles are used as textbooks to prove that the Bible is an interesting work of fiction, a fascinating historical document, utilized by primitive, naive, gullible people, like ancient Greek or Norse mythology.

In light of this, I'd surmise that the Bible is written specifically for believers, not atheists or agnostics, who use the Word to ridicule and mock those who believe the Bible is the Word of God, those who say Jesus was merely a man, who wrongfully claimed to be the prophetic Messiah of Jewish lore.