Scripture the Greatest Gift to Mankind,pt.2

[Iconoclast]

The other thread was closed due to length, but we were just really beginning to get to a scriptural examination of the topic. Many held different ideas but did not really address the issue it seemed. What issue?

Many suggested other answers as to what they believed was the greatest gift to all of humanity.
Several tried to change the topic to who or what is superior, the scriptures or Jesus.
That was not the topic of the thread however, neither is it the topic of this thread.

What took place? We will examine some of the suggestions and why they did not answer the questions that followed.

Several suggested Jesus which would at first glance seemed an obvious answer. Years ago that was my first response. I was challenged and directed to the correct answer. This thread will continue to search the scriptures as the Bereans did.

Lk.24:
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

 

[Iconoclast]

Which Jesus?
2 cor11:
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


Another Jesus???
Looks like we have to have a way to know who is the biblical Jesus

Another Gospel???
We have to know how to sort out which is the true gospel.

Another spirit???
We have to know how to test the spirits,

 

[Iconoclast]

Here is Mormon teaching on there Jesus, on what basis do we know for certain this is the wrong Jesus?

What Mormons Believe About Jesus Christ

Mormons believe in Jesus Christ as the literal Son of God and Messiah, his crucifixion as a conclusion of a sin offering, and subsequent resurrection. However, Latter-day Saints (LDS) reject the ecumenical creeds and the definition of the Trinity.

One of the main reasons Latter-day Saints are often relegated to the category of cult of non-Christian is because we believe in scripture beyond the Bible. To be sure, we love the Bible. We cherish its sacred teachings and delight in reading and teaching it. We seek to conform our lives to its marvelous precepts. But we do not believe that the Bible contains all that God has spoken or will yet speak in the future.

The authority of scripture is tied to its source.

From our perspective, the living, breathing, ever-relevant nature of the word of God is linked not to written words, not even to the writing of Moses or Isaiah or Malachi, not to the four Gospels or the epistles of Paul, but rather to the spirit of prophecy and revelation that illuminated and empowered those who recorded them in the first place.

The Bible does in fact contain much that can and should guide our walk and talk; it contains the word and will of the Lord to men and women in earlier ages, and its timeless truths have tremendous normative value for our day. But we do not derive authority to speak or act in the name of Deity on the basis of what God gave to His people in an earlier day.

 

[Iconoclast]

How about the JW teaching on their Jesus???
Is this the correct Jesus? How do we know if it the true or false Christ?
Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs - Wikipedia


Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is God's "only-begotten Son", and that his life began in heaven. He is described as God's first creation and the "exact representation of God", but is believed to be a separate entity and not part of a Trinity.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is God's "only-begotten Son", and that his life began in heaven.[88] He is described as God's first creation and the "exact representation of God",[89] but is believed to be a separate entity and not part of a Trinity. Jesus is said to have been used by God in the creation of all other things.[90] Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Archangel Michael, "the Word" of John 1:1, and wisdom personified in Proverbs 8 refer to Jesus in his pre-human existence and that he resumed these identities after his ascension to heaven following his death and resurrection. They also identify him with the "rider of the white horse" at Revelation 6 and 19.[91] His birth on earth was accomplished when he willingly allowed himself to be transferred, by God, from heaven to the womb of the virgin, Mary.[92] While on earth, Jesus was executed as a sacrifice to atone for mankind's sins, becoming the "eternal father" to the human family.[93]

They believe that after his death, Jesus appeared to his disciples, convinced them of his resurrection, and then ascended into heaven to sit at Jehovah's right hand until he would become the promised king of God's heavenly kingdom. Jesus acts as the mediator of a "new covenant"[94] referred to in Jeremiah 31:31, Luke 22:20, and Hebrews 9:15; 12:24, directly mediating only for those going to heaven (the 144,000). Those with an earthly hope are said to be beneficiaries of that covenant.[95][96][97] Even as king of God's kingdom, Jesus remains subordinate to God.[98] Witnesses reject the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary, who they believe bore more children after Jesus.[99]

 

[Iconoclast]

So on the first thread here are some of the reasoning of those who said Jesus.

1]Actually, the Living Word, Jesus Christ was!
But will accept the Bible as His second best gift!
Question, which Jesus is the living word.

2]I think that the Angels and all all the redeemed will be worshiping and praising the Lord Jesus, and not His book!
Q. Which Jesus? How do you know anything about worship and praising Him?

3]God the father exulted Jesus to be the Living Lord, as to Him is the eternal Kingdom and dominion, not His Bible!
God the Son died for me, not his book!
Q. How do we know any of this without scripture?

4]its the inspired revelation of Him, but is not equal to Him!
Q. Who said it was equal to him?

5]We will worship the Lord, and not His book!
no one said any such thing these questions were asked and never answered;
What Lord?
Who is He?
What did He do?
Who created this universe?
Who defines sin and death?
6]Yes, but would answer hebrews 1"1-2 as God ultimate revelation to us is not in the Bible, but in His Son!
Here scripture is used to describe something no one would know if we did not have the gift of scripture. This happened many times, but no one answered the questions.

 

[Reformed]

So, are you claiming that scripture is the greatest gift?

 

[JonC]

Is Scripture a greater gift to humanity than God sending His Son (than Christ)?

Is Scripture a greater gift than God sending His Spirit?

Is Scripture a greater gift than salvation?

 

[Iconoclast]

So, are you claiming that scripture is the greatest gift?

Hello Reformed,
Yes. Most everyone worldwide has never seen or heard the Lord Jesus Christ alive on earth in the first century.
I do not know of anyone who is 2000 years old
God himself has progressively revealed Himself to us in scripture. (The word of God written).
God had over 40 men write all we need that pertains to life and Godliness.
This was not accidentally done,but rather the design of the triune God .
Not one of us would have true and accurate knowledge of God the Father,Son, or Holy Spirit, unless God Himself makes Himself known to us.
Without the scripture we would be adrift like all the world religions the Romans 1 declares have changed the truth of God for a lie.
We would have no true knowledge of any biblical topic.
Why are men spiritually dead?
What happened at creation? Who is the creator?
Who determines right from wrong?
Who gives us a moral law?
Why was a sacrificial system put in place?
Why was shed blood required?
What is regeneration, new birth ,grace,mercy,justification,sanctification, glorification, election, predestination, reprobation,glorification, Heaven, Hell?
These are unknown apart from scripture revealing and sealing the true knowledge to mankind.
Missionaries do not go with word of mouth hearsay. The go with the authoritative God given truth that is essential for the Holy Spirit to quicken dead sinners to life.
Everyone firsts says....It is Jesus!
Without scripture we would not know which one as we are not Apostolic eyewitnesses.
Is Jesus the 900ft version that Oral Roberts claimed to have a 7 hour conversation with,telling him we each need to send $144dollars in to his ministry? The one that the JW says was an angel turned into a man? Or the mormon half brother to lucifer?
Without scripture we are heathen in rebellion, having no hope, and without God in the world.

 

[Iconoclast]

Without scripture we would have no knowledge of God the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.
We would not know God was sending "His Son" to begin with.
Sending His Son...sending His Son for what reason?
What do we mean that God has a Son?
Why has it become necessary to send the Son.?

Without the gift of scripture we have no knowledge of any of this.
We are have no knowledge of the gospel iitsel.We would not understand anything, about anything.

 

[JonC]

So you believe Scripture and the knowledge of God is a greater gift to humanity than God Himself?

I believe your reasoning flawed.

For example, using your method here - What about the gift of logic and comprehension? Without that, it seems Scripture would be meaningless. Therefore the human intellect is a greater gift than Scripture and God.

I understand you are focusing on the fundamental nature of knowledge, of knowing about God. But I believe you are straying off the path.

Christ is foremost in all things.

 

[Iconoclast]

When we witness to individuals we need to establish the bible as it is in truth,the word of God.
We need to be able to say all of what the Psalmist says in psalm 119.
Scripture was his meditation around the clock.
Scripture enabled him to draw near to God.
Scripture was his refuge when evil ,wicked ,persons sought to bear false witness against him, workers of Satan,religious but seeking to turn him away from his God.119:95-100.

When we obey Mt:28, we make disciples,using scripture
Teaching them. We can tell of so great a salvation by using the God given scriptures, not by fables, mans wisdom,carnal thoughts, and carnal philosophy.
All of that are dead ends that religious people do.
As pointed out in the first thread, The Lord zJesus God incarnate, used scripture to confront and drive away Satan in the gospels
It is written, it is written, it is written.
Anyone who in any way diminished scriptures most likely does not know God, or has major defects in their understanding.
Like those in Acts 17, they do not know what to them is the unknown God.

 

[JonC]

When we witness to individuals we need to establish the bible as it is in truth,the word of God.
We need to be able to say all of what the Psalmist says in psalm 119.
Scripture was his meditation around the clock.
Scripture enabled him to draw near to God.
Scripture was his refuge when evil ,wicked ,persons sought to bear false witness against him, workers of Satan,religious but seeking to turn him away from his God.119:95-100.

When we obey Mt:28, we make disciples,using scripture
Teaching them. We can tell of so great a salvation by using the God given scriptures, not by fables, mans wisdom,carnal thoughts, and carnal philosophy.
All of that are dead ends that religious people do.
As pointed out in the first thread, The Lord zJesus God incarnate, used scripture to confront and drive away Satan in the gospels
It is written, it is written, it is written.
Anyone who in any way diminished scriptures most likely does not know God, or has major defects in their understanding.
Like those in Acts 17, they do not know what to them is the unknown God.

But that is not how the Apostles witnessed to people. Paul did not teach the pagans at the acropolis about Scripture. Paul told them about Christ crucified.

I think you need to take a step back and reconsider your position here, Brother.

 

[JonShaff]

If Scripture didn't exist, word of mouth communication would still happen in order to tell about the greatest Gift--Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

@Iconoclast, stop causing people to pit Scripture against the Son of God. Your religious nonsense is getting ridiculous. This thread should be shut down, too.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

When we witness to individuals we need to establish the bible as it is in truth,the word of God….

And precisely how do you propose it should be done, that is, establishing to the satisfaction of unbelievers that the Bible is the word of God?

 

[JonC]

If Scripture didn't exist, word of mouth communication would still happen in order to tell about the greatest Gift--Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

@Iconoclast, stop causing people to pit Scripture against the Son of God. Your religious nonsense is getting ridiculous. This thread should be shut down, too.

Exactly.

This is how the gospel was initially spread, how the Gentiles were reached - not by explaining to them the Scripture that existed at the time but preaching Christ crucified. And this is how the gospel is spread today, how people are saved - it is the power of God unto salvation. The idea that when we witness to individuals we need to establish the bible as it is in truth,the word of God, is absurd. We know the Bible is true because we know the Giver of that truth - not the other way around.

This is the strangest thread I have seen from the keyboard of a believer.

 

[Deacon]

Surely without God’s revelation of himself to mankind we would all be lost.
But I think revelation is only a part of the package.

The purpose of revelation was to reveal the way of salvation, a gift given to us by God’s only Son.

Rob

 

[JonC]

This topic brings to mind the arguments of the Corinthians regarding spiritual gifts given by God to Christians.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Iconoclast]

If Scripture didn't exist, word of mouth communication would still happen in order to tell about the greatest Gift--Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

@Iconoclast, stop causing people to pit Scripture against the Son of God. Your religious nonsense is getting ridiculous. This thread should be shut down, too.

Hello John schaff, I strongly object to your objection. Word-of-mouth communication? So when the little girl say that the Virgin Mary appeared to her appear to them and Lourdes France and told them to pray the rosary bead that's okay? On what basis would we tell him that is not correct. The scripture as is being shown in the threat is a gateway to everything we know and believe about God. The try to put a wedge there and ignore the scripture as the god-given Gateway I think is borderline sinful and if an abominable view of scripture. Now you are free to believe what you want and abject to what you want as I'm free to believe what I want to stay and state when I want and continue to make a Biblical case. If you don't like what's happening you can make your own thread or no one forces you to come to this thread and read and understand what is being offered

 

[JonC]

The irony of this thread is that the OP is claiming Scripture to be God's greatest gift to humanity without stopping to see what Scripture itself says on the subject.

 

[JonShaff]

Hello John schaff, I strongly object to your objection. Word-of-mouth communication? So when the little girl say that the Virgin Mary appeared to her appear to them and Lourdes France and told them to pray the rosary bead that's okay? On what basis would we tell him that is not correct. The scripture as is being shown in the threat is a gateway to everything we know and believe about God. The try to put a wedge there and ignore the scripture as the god-given Gateway I think is borderline sinful and if an abominable view of scripture. Now you are free to believe what you want and abject to what you want as I'm free to believe what I want to stay and state when I want and continue to make a Biblical case. If you don't like what's happening you can make your own thread or no one forces you to come to this thread and read and understand what is being offered

You do realize heretics and false teachers use the Scriptures to lead people astray, right? Your argument is ridiculous.