Scripture the Greatest Gift to Mankind,pt.2

[JonC]

Hello John schaff, I strongly object to your objection. Word-of-mouth communication? So when the little girl say that the Virgin Mary appeared to her appear to them and Lourdes France and told them to pray the rosary bead that's okay? On what basis would we tell him that is not correct. The scripture as is being shown in the threat is a gateway to everything we know and believe about God. The try to put a wedge there and ignore the scripture as the god-given Gateway I think is borderline sinful and if an abominable view of scripture. Now you are free to believe what you want and abject to what you want as I'm free to believe what I want to stay and state when I want and continue to make a Biblical case. If you don't like what's happening you can make your own thread or no one forces you to come to this thread and read and understand what is being offered

Brother,

Please consider this example from Scripture.

Acts 17:22-34 So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. "For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.' "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead." Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some began to sneer, but others said, "We shall hear you again concerning this." So Paul went out of their midst. But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

In the Bible witnessing is always done by word of mouth communication. The Spirit works within both the speaker and the one who will believe based on that testimony. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to all who are being saved. Nowhere are we told that Paul witnessed to individuals by establishing the bible as it is in truth,the word of God. Paul preached Christ crucified - the gospel message.

 

[JonShaff]

The Spirit works within both the speaker and the one who will believe based on that testimony. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to all who are being saved.

It's like @Iconoclast has no idea how this works? I'm being serious. It's like he is totally ignorant to the realities of the Work of the Spirit of God as HE testifies to the inner man of a person the truths of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The other thread was closed due to length, but we were just really beginning to get to a scriptural examination of the topic. Many held different ideas but did not really address the issue it seemed. What issue?

Many suggested other answers as to what they believed was the greatest gift to all of humanity.
Several tried to change the topic to who or what is superior, the scriptures or Jesus.
That was not the topic of the thread however, neither is it the topic of this thread.

What took place? We will examine some of the suggestions and why they did not answer the questions that followed.

Several suggested Jesus which would at first glance seemed an obvious answer. Years ago that was my first response. I was challenged and directed to the correct answer. This thread will continue to search the scriptures as the Bereans did.

Lk.24:
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Seriously? I believe that the greatest gift to human kind is grace.

 

[Iconoclast]

And precisely how do you propose it should be done, that is, establishing to the satisfaction of unbelievers that the Bible is the word of God?

Now this is an excellent question and deserves an answer. You are sincere and honest poster who was really looking for an answer. I've taken a firm stand and I understand several are objecting to that stand that I believe is biblical.
In this thread I intend to show how biblical it is in detail. The only thing I ask in return is as I am able to provide more detailed responses probably later on in the day that you answer or interact with the questions I specifically direct back to you thank you

 

[Iconoclast]

You do realize heretics and false teachers use the Scriptures to lead people astray, right? Your argument is ridiculous.

John, while I get that you're eager to object if you had read post 2, 3, and 4, UCI noted and ask questions about some of the false teachers. How come you and other Posse of objectors I'm not interacting with what is actually posted.? Are you actually reading the post? I have not seen you actually interact with what is posted or the questions being asked. There was a response made to the poster known as reformed ,did you read it can you answer the questions and the issues that were raised in the main body of that post. If you can't you have no basis for your objection whatsoever thank you very much

 

[Iconoclast]

Seriously? I believe that the greatest gift to human kind is grace.

Yes ewf, and how did you learn about Grace? How did you learn we need Grace? How did you learn about Jesus? How did you learn the true gospel?

 

[Reformed]

Hello Reformed,
Yes.

Brother, I heartily concur that God's written revelation is an important and blessed gift. Indeed, how else can a person hear the gospel without it? I halt at ranking God's gifts. James tells us that every good and perfect gifts comes from above (James 1:17). That means that every gift of God is perfect, as the gift is a reflection of the nature of the divine giver.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Seriously? I believe that the greatest gift to human kind is grace.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes ewf, and how did you learn about Grace? How did you learn we need Grace? How did you learn about Jesus? How did you learn the true gospel?

The gospel brings life and immortality to light, but does not produce life (II Tim.1: 10).

That is done by the HS

 

[JonShaff]

Without scripture we would have no knowledge of God the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.

Except for the fact that the Son of God came and revealed Himself and the Father to us. I'm not certain why you do not understand this--but it's evident that there is a disconnect somewhere.

 

[JonShaff]

John, while I get that you're eager to object if you had read post 2, 3, and 4, UCI noted and ask questions about some of the false teachers. How come you and other Posse of objectors I'm not interacting with what is actually posted.? Are you actually reading the post? I have not seen you actually interact with what is posted or the questions being asked. There was a response made to the poster known as reformed ,did you read it can you answer the questions and the issues that were raised in the main body of that post. If you can't you have no basis for your objection whatsoever thank you very much

Oh yes, i'm reading your posts, and they get more odd as i read them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's like @Iconoclast has no idea how this works? I'm being serious. It's like he is totally ignorant to the realities of the Work of the Spirit of God as HE testifies to the inner man of a person the truths of the Lord Jesus Christ.

He knows how it works

 

[JonShaff]

He knows how it works

Based on the two threads he started about the gift of Scripture, i conclude he does not.

 

[JonShaff]

@Iconoclast
Let's boil this down. Let's talk about the "bottom line"

What Gift is superior--The Bible or Jesus Christ?

One of those is not like the other.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If there were no Scripture, how could we know about the Lord Jesus?
If there were no Lord Jesus what would be the point of Scripture?
If there were no Holy Spirit, how could we understand the Scriptures that tell us about the Lord Jesus?
If there were no grace, we could not be saved anyway.

Praise God who has given us such a wonderful, complete salvation!

 

[Iconoclast]

Brother, I heartily concur that God's written revelation is an important and blessed gift. Indeed, how else can a person hear the gospel without it? I halt at ranking God's gifts. James tells us that every good and perfect gifts comes from above (James 1:17). That means that every gift of God is perfect, as the gift is a reflection of the nature of the divine giver.

Yes I agree heartily with what James says in James 1:17. However I reserve the right to point out that we only know that every good gift comes down from the Father of Lights because of scripture.
We only know all about Jesus for all about the Triune God Father-Son -Spirit all the doctrine of all the teaching all about heaven and hell all about judgement to come and the gospel itself only because God has designed to authenticate and then scripture as his word so that we have a sure word of Prophecy. The objectors are trying to pit one against the other rather than seeing that scripture is the God-given doorway to everything else that we hold special to all the special Revelation. That being said in the other thread I'd looked at off the Pink from profiting from the word where he said that the scripture in and of itself given to Natural men will not profit them they need the spirit to Quicken the script scripture to them. But without the scripture what what is going to bring that dead center to life except the scripture being preached taught or communicated so we have a sure word of Prophecy
We have the Apostles sermons which almost all of them you scripture except obviously Paul at Mars Hill when they realized they were pagans unfamiliar with the scripture he first had to establish the unknown God that was unknown to them was the true and living God and I'm sure he went out and based everything he said about God on the scripture that he had .
So yeah it that's why I think it's a thought-provoking thread and a thought-provoking idea to be explored I'm driving right now so I don't have as much time as I'd like to lay out more and more of the scripture I'm going to do that later on but I'm using voice to text so sometime I grammar and the autocorrect put words in there that a little bit strange but we'll work through it thanks for the good question and interaction

 

[Iconoclast]

If there were no Scripture, how could we know about the Lord Jesus?
If there were no Lord Jesus what would be the point of Scripture?
If there were no Holy Spirit, how could we understand the Scriptures that tell us about the Lord Jesus?
If there were no grace, we could not be saved anyway.

Praise God who has given us such a wonderful, complete salvation!

We live in a day when many are not having a proper understanding of what safeguards God has put in place keeping us secure by His word containing all manner of blessings and promises.
We are all supposed to be Bible Believers here and I'm sure everyone say oh yeah I am I am but I don't think from what I'm seeing by these responses that many really grasp what we have with the word of God written.

 

[Iconoclast]

Oh yes, i'm reading your posts, and they get more odd as i read them.

So you are reading the post but I haven't seen you actually interact with the questions in any of the post. When you do that I'll get back to you

 

[JonShaff]

We are all supposed to be Bible Believers here and I'm sure everyone say oh yeah I am I am but I don't think from what I'm seeing by these responses that many really grasp what we have with the word of God written.

And from what i'm gathering, we all do not agree that the Scriptures point to Christ being the supreme in all things.

In the same way John points to Christ as the superior, the Scriptures themselves point to Christ being the superior (Think of Jesus' interaction with the Pharisees--"You read the Scriptures and think that in and of themselves you have life, but it's them that point to ME.").

Here is something that will help you (maybe not).

Does the Bible contain the truth about gravity and it's complexity and formula etc. No it does not.

BUT, In Christ--the truth of Gravity exists.

Christ holds all truth, alone.

And once again--You are causing people to pit Scripture against Christ, as evident in your post. I say repent.

 

[JonShaff]

what I'm seeing by these responses that many really grasp what we have with the word of God written.

We have the Word of God Himself--JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!