SDA: Cult of Fear-Mongers

[Alofa Atu]

For by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified (Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16).

Seventh-day Adventist doctrine (Isa. 8:20) does not anywhere teach Justification by Law (any law). We teach (as said so many times I lost count):

Isa_45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.​

Anything else is simply citing 'you'.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Speaking of fear, after going through the monologue that is this thread of yours, I can state with certainty that I do not fear the Investigative Judgment, as I know what God will find already, but you on the other hand, desire to escape this searching of God, and fear what God already knows is there.

 

[ntchristian]

I see the words "cult" and "heresy" flung around a lot on this forum. Is that a characteristic of conservative Baptists on here? If so, it doesn't seem to fit with Baptist principles.

 

[Alofa Atu]

John 5:24

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Yes, the text perfectly agrees with the IJ. What is your issue with John 5:24 and the IJ? Those who are in Christ Jesus during the IJ do not come into condemnation and have life as they "heareth ... and believeth". The text says nothing about not being judged when becoming a Christian. Secondly, those who merely professed to be in Christ Jesus (Lord, Lord; Matthew 7:22, the 'form of Godliness', 2 Timothy 3:5), and found wanting (Daniel 5:27; Matthew 22:11-12, etc) come into condemnation.

I already addressed this text specifically, here -

[1] "Private Interpretation"

[2] "Private Interpretation"​

Feel free to DL it in full here and share it all over - http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-co...le-Contradictions-from-Ellen-G.-White-SDA.pdf

Your issue seems to be the final point made in the response, in that you believe in the erroneous doctrine of OSAS. If you do believe such, you will always hold the position you do, and reject the scriptural doctrine (IJ) for an unscriptural one (OSAS). They are exclusive to each other. And as such, it is your issue to deal with and not mine. You have been shown on numerous occasions about the errors and unsustainability of OSAS from scripture, and even Love itself.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Jesus is right now in the most holy part of heaven, right hand of God the father, and all of the sins of His own were already blotted out!

Not so (bolded underlined part). Forgiven sins are "covered", until they are "blotted out" (just before He comes again; Acts 3:19-20, etc). This too was shown you on several occasions. What do you do with the information shared with you?

Sins are not blotted out at Calvary (Passover).

Sins (forgiven) are "covered" by the blood at Calvary (Passover, see the type in Exodus), and yet still remain on record in Heaven. (Psalms 109:14; Nehemiah 4:5; Jeremiah 18:23, etc)

Sins are "blotted out" at the end, just before He comes (Day of Atonement), see Leviticus 16 and 23. See Daniel, Hebrews and Revelation.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Its the gift of God towards his own, so can never "lose it"

God has given to the Son all those who "believeth".

As for the gift toward us (Jesus Christ), any gift, can be lost through unbelief (whatsoever is not of faith is sin) - see King Saul (OT) and Ananias and Sapphira (NT). The Bible (KJB) does not teach OSAS, as much as you would like it to. This is separate from Biblical "assurance". OSAS is actually rape, and violates all the relationship of love.

Paul states as much in Romans 8, and leaves the only possibility of ourselves as that which may separate from God.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Ephesians 1:13-14!

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Yes, the texts Ephesians 1:13-14 agree with and are in harmony with the IJ, but not OSAS. The Holy Ghost does the sealing, but is not the seal. Also notice the words, "promise" (which means you do not have the fullness thereof) and also the "earnest" (a down payment, the first part, not the whole). See also 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5. Connect to 2 Corinthians 1:20, in that all the promises are Yea and Amen in Christ Jesus. Therefore, a person must be found in Him, not outside of Him, and that is where "faith" and "believeth" enter the picture. None of these texts teach that once a person receives the "earnest" of the "promise" that they cannot refuse and reject it later (grieving away the Holy Ghost, as King Saul, as Ananias and Sapphira), as Paul warns most strongly about being a castaway (context of the immortal crown not yet had), and found being a reprobate (Hebrews 6:3-8). A branch plucked from the fire can also go back into the fire (not that this is what God desires).

This teaching is found from Genesis to Revelation, and in the Sanctuary (Psalms 77:13), in that a sinner could be forgiven their sins through bringing the sacrifice as allowed in each day of the year (Leviticus 4), but in the Day of Atonement, if they were not right with God still, they would be cut off (Leviticus 16 & 23), and it didn't matter how many sacrifices they brought before that point, or how many times they were forgiven. If they were not right with God, all was revoked (Matthew 18).

 

[Yeshua1]

The Bible is the infallible interperter (Genesis 40:8, 2 Peter 1:20), as even Ellen herself taught unto her dying day.

To say otherwise is to misrepresent the Seventh-day Adventist position, and Ellen's position (as both are in print for all the world to see).

Isaiah 8:20, and so on.

"... The great error of the Romish church is found in the fact that the Bible is interpreted in the light of the opinions of the "fathers." These opinions are regarded as infallible, and the dignitaries of the church assume that it is their prerogative to make others believe as they do. Those who do not agree with them are pronounced heretics. But the word of God is not thus to be interpreted. It is to stand on its own eternal merits, to be read as the word of God, which declares his will to the people. {AU Gleaner, June 9, 1909 par. 4} ..." - Australasian Union Gleaner, June 9, 1909, par. 4

"... A familiar acquaintance with the Scriptures sharpens the discerning powers, and fortifies the soul against the attacks of Satan. The Bible is the sword of the Spirit, which will never fail to vanquish the adversary. It is the only true guide in all matters of faith and practice. ..." - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, January 4, 1881, par. 27

"... The Bible, and the Bible alone, is the rule of faith and practice. ..." - 1888 Materials, page 1532.2

"... The Bible is our Counselor, and is to be obeyed. ..." - 13MR (No. 1027), page 191.1

"... The truth of the Christian religion depends upon the divine authority of the word of God. ..." - Paulson Collection, page 110.7

"... We should not allow any argument of man's to turn us away from a thorough investigation of Bible truth. The opinions and customs of men are not to be received as of divine authority. God has revealed in his word what is the whole duty of man, and we are not to be swayed from the great standard of righteousness. He sent his only begotten Son to be our example, and bade us to hear and to follow him. We must not be influenced from the truth as it is in Jesus, because great and professedly good men urge their ideas above the plain statements of the word of God. {RH, July 17, 1888 par. 12} ..." - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, July 17, 1888, par. 12

"... My cry has been, Investigate the Scriptures for yourselves, and know for yourselves what saith the Lord. No man is to be authority for us. If he has received his light from the Bible, so may we also go to the same source for light and proof to substantiate the doctrines which we believe. The Scriptures teach that we should give a reason of the hope that is within us with meekness and fear. . . . {9MR 217.2} ..." - 9MR (No. 731), page 217.2

"... Truth, Bible truth, is to become the authority for the conscience and the love and life of the soul. {10MR 315.4} ..." - 10MR (No. 829), page 315.4

"... The Word of God is your counselor; the Word of God is your authority. Be very careful how you bring anything weaker to take its place...." - 14MR (1109), page 186.1

"... Christ rebuked these practices in His day. He taught that the word of God was to be understood by all. He pointed to the Scriptures as of unquestionable authority, and we should do the same. The Bible is to be presented as the word of the infinite God, as [40] the end of all controversy and the foundation of all faith. {COL 39.1} ..." - Christ Object Lessons, page 39.1​

The Sda claims that she had the EXACT same inspiration in regards to her books regarding how to understand bible theology as the OT prophets and NT Apostles!
If you were to see that the Sabbath is not for the Church per the Bible, you still must agree to what EW stated in regards to Sabbath to stay a Sda!

 

[Yeshua1]

God has given to the Son all those who "believeth".

As for the gift toward us (Jesus Christ), any gift, can be lost through unbelief (whatsoever is not of faith is sin) - see King Saul (OT) and Ananias and Sapphira (NT). The Bible (KJB) does not teach OSAS, as much as you would like it to. This is separate from Biblical "assurance". OSAS is actually rape, and violates all the relationship of love.

Paul states as much in Romans 8, and leaves the only possibility of ourselves as that which may separate from God.

Jesus stated that we already passed from death to life, and paul stated that NOW there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, and Jesus stated that NONE of His shall ever get lost!

I trust in the sure word of scripture. not the false teachings of EW!

 

[Yeshua1]

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Yes, the texts Ephesians 1:13-14 agree with and are in harmony with the IJ, but not OSAS. The Holy Ghost does the sealing, but is not the seal. Also notice the words, "promise" (which means you do not have the fullness thereof) and also the "earnest" (a down payment, the first part, not the whole). See also 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5. Connect to 2 Corinthians 1:20, in that all the promises are Yea and Amen in Christ Jesus. Therefore, a person must be found in Him, not outside of Him, and that is where "faith" and "believeth" enter the picture. None of these texts teach that once a person receives the "earnest" of the "promise" that they cannot refuse and reject it later (grieving away the Holy Ghost, as King Saul, as Ananias and Sapphira), as Paul warns most strongly about being a castaway (context of the immortal crown not yet had), and found being a reprobate (Hebrews 6:3-8). A branch plucked from the fire can also go back into the fire (not that this is what God desires).

This teaching is found from Genesis to Revelation, and in the Sanctuary (Psalms 77:13), in that a sinner could be forgiven their sins through bringing the sacrifice as allowed in each day of the year (Leviticus 4), but in the Day of Atonement, if they were not right with God still, they would be cut off (Leviticus 16 & 23), and it didn't matter how many sacrifices they brought before that point, or how many times they were forgiven. If they were not right with God, all was revoked (Matthew 18).

The Holy Spirt is THE SEAl of those who are now saved in Christ, and there will be many who have kept the Sabbath day, and yet Jesus will say to them "I never knew you"

 

[Alofa Atu]

The Sda claims that she had the EXACT same inspiration in regards to her books regarding how to understand bible theology as the OT prophets and NT Apostles!

The Holy Ghost inspires people. Same inspirer.

Was Moses inspired of the Holy Ghost?

Was Daniel inspired of the Holy Ghost?

Was John the Baptist inspired of the Holy Ghost?

Was Deborah inspired of the Holy Ghost?

Was David inspired of the Holy Ghost? Was he as inspired as Moses?

Was Paul inspired of the Holy Ghost? Was he as inspired as Daniel?

Was Agabus inspired of the Holy Ghost? Was he as inspired as Paul?

When George Wishart gave a prophecy in his death, was he inspired of the Holy Ghost?

 

[Alofa Atu]

The Holy Spirt is THE SEAl ...

No. He is the sealer, not the seal:

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.​

You wrongly read the other passages.

 

[Alofa Atu]

We Baptists do not elevate anyone to be infallible interpreter of the bible to us as sda does EW!

O ~ I can think of a name. That name is Calvin. You are more of a Calvinist than a Baptist. Not all Baptist are Calvinist (praise the Lord).

 

[Yeshua1]

The Holy Ghost inspires people. Same inspirer.

Was Moses inspired of the Holy Ghost?

Was Daniel inspired of the Holy Ghost?

Was John the Baptist inspired of the Holy Ghost?

Was Deborah inspired of the Holy Ghost?

Was David inspired of the Holy Ghost? Was he as inspired as Moses?

Was Paul inspired of the Holy Ghost? Was he as inspired as Daniel?

Was Agabus inspired of the Holy Ghost? Was he as inspired as Paul?

When George Wishart gave a prophecy in his death, was he inspired of the Holy Ghost?

The Holy Spirit stopped inspiration when Apostle john died!

 

[Yeshua1]

O ~ I can think of a name. That name is Calvin. You are more of a Calvinist than a Baptist. Not all Baptist are Calvinist (praise the Lord).

Calvin NEVER stated that his teachings were the infallible and inspired guide to understanding scriptures, but EW did!

 

[Protestant]

I see the words "cult" and "heresy" flung around a lot on this forum. Is that a characteristic of conservative Baptists on here? If so, it doesn't seem to fit with Baptist principles.

What Baptist principle does renouncing God-dishonoring heresy not fit? Your personal opinion is not sufficient to prove 'truth.' Your 'feelings' are irrelevant.

I cite Baptist Pastor D. M. Canright, author, Seventh-Day Adventism Renounced, "Being profoundly convinced that Seventh-Day Adventism is a system of error, I feel it my duty to publish what I know of it. I do it in the fear of God. Knowing the sorrow it has brought to my heart and to thousands, I must warn others against it." (Preface to 14th Edition).

 

[Alofa Atu]

The Holy Spirit stopped inspiration when Apostle john died!

Just ~ wow.

Please show me in the mouth of two or three witnesses from scripture why you think that is.

 

[Alofa Atu]

What Baptist principle does renouncing God-dishonoring heresy not fit? Your personal opinion is not sufficient to prove 'truth.' Your 'feelings' are irrelevant.

I cite Baptist Pastor D. M. Canright, author, Seventh-Day Adventism Renounced, "Being profoundly convinced that Seventh-Day Adventism is a system of error, I feel it my duty to publish what I know of it. I do it in the fear of God. Knowing the sorrow it has brought to my heart and to thousands, I must warn others against it." (Preface to 14th Edition).

Did you ever read his own recantation in "To Those In Doubting Castle" (By D M Canright), for you may read it here (The Man Who Boarded The Phantom Ship) -

Doctrine – Critics – Andrews University – Ellen White Answers To Critics And D M Canright (PDF)

Doctrine – Critics – Francis D Nichol – Answers To Objections Of SDA Theology And D M Canright (PDF)

Doctrine – Critics – G I Butler – Replies to Elder D M Canright’s Attacks On Seventh-day Adventists (PDF)

Doctrine – Critics – Uriah Smith – Replies To D M Canright (PDF)

Doctrine – Critics – Vance Ferrell – The Man Who Boarded The Phantom Ship – D M Canright (PDF)

Doctrine – Critics – William H Branson – In Defense Of The Faith A Reply To D M Canright 1933 (PDF)

Even the Baptists that he associated himself with began to distance themselves from him. Do you know how he died?

 

[Walpole]

Calvin NEVER stated that his teachings were the infallible and inspired guide to understanding scriptures, but EW did!

Brush up on your Calvin!

"Next come Pastors and Teachers, with whom the Church never can dispense, and between whom, I think, there is this difference, that teachers preside not over discipline, or the administration of the sacraments, or admonitions, or exhortations, but the interpretation of Scripture only, in order that pure and sound doctrine may be maintained among believers. But all these are embraced in the pastoral office." - Calvin, Institutes, 4.3.4

 

[Protestant]

Seventh-day Adventist doctrine (Isa. 8:20) does not anywhere teach Justification by Law (any law). We teach (as said so many times I lost count):

Isa_45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.​

Anything else is simply citing 'you'.

You fool no one on this board. The Scripture cited above does not answer the question, How is a sinner justified before a holy and righteous God?

The biblical answer to this all-important question is three-fold:

(1) A sinner is justified by grace (Romans 3:24).

(2) A sinner is justified by faith (Romans 5:1).

(3) A sinner is justified by Christ’s blood (Romans 5:9).

The SDA does not teach this 3-fold truth for several reasons:

(1) To be justified is to be saved. No Adventist is permitted to consider he is ‘saved.’ (Source: EGW, Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 155).

(2) The IJ contradicts such justification, for Christ is allegedly presently investigating the life, works and beliefs of every professing Christian to determine his final status before God. Until the time of probation is closed, no final determination can be made. Until then, allegedly, no man can, with assurance, claim to be justified.

(3) 7th day Sabbath-keeping is the primary Law which cannot be compromised. Those who abrogate that Law are doomed as members of Mystery Babylon. (Source: all of EGW's writings.).

I now challenge you and all other Adventists participating on this forum to announce, without equivocation, “I know without a shadow of a doubt that I am now justified and saved from my sins.”

Nor will you openly profess salvation is possible without 7th-day Sabbath-keeping.

As I said, You fool no one on this board.