Silverhair
Well-Known Member
More than a few on BB are quick to label anyone that does not think the way they do as a heretic, humanist, open theist, semi or full pelagian and the list goes on.
You just have to consider where the comment came from.
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Semi-pelagian
- Thread starter AustinC
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More than a few on BB are quick to label anyone that does not think the way they do as a heretic, humanist, open theist, semi or full pelagian and the list goes on.
You just have to consider where the comment came from.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Actually the condition was so that the purpose of God would be fulfilled. You know the one that He pointed to in Gen 3:15.
Your reading comprehension is as bad as @37818. Gen 3:15 is nowhere even remotely referenced in the context.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The plan God has for mankind, as pointed to in Gen 3:15, is the plan that is being carried forward in Rom 9.
37818
Well-Known Member
Who is Jacob? Jesus' lineage through His mother Mary in Luke. And His lineage as a King in Matthew.
Egad, one could say that for just about any chapter in the Bible.
Gen 3:15 is no more "a plan" that any other Bible prophecy.
"..."And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel (Gen. 3:15)".....Here we have the beginning and germ of all prophecy." A.W. Pink
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Gen 3:15 was the first time in the bible that we can see that God a plan in place for the redemption of man. Open your eyes.
The "condition" within the immediate context is "the purpose of God according to election":
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. Ro 9
Just like @37818, you're unabashed in the violence you do to the word of God. You chop the scripture up into bits and pieces to make it seem to say what you want it to say, all because you refuse to accept what it actually says.
"Ever and anon the cry of the noncalvinist is Why doth He yet find fault?" @Aaron
All the whining of the anti-Cals confirms the truth of Romans 9, and you're too self-unaware to see it.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Give an explicit example with an actual quote and correcting Scripture or two, instead of mere personal attacts.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
KY are you so blinded by you Calvinism that you can not see that the election in these verses {Rom 9.6-33} is to carry out Gods plan of redemption through Christ Jesus.
The election of Isaac, Jacob and even Pharaoh was to carry through Gods' plan of salvation. Theirs' was to service not to salvation.
I find your comment funny. The ones that I see the most whining from on BB is the Calvinist. Those of us that trust the bible know why God finds fault, it is because some have refused to trust in God. Those that trust in the Son and are found in Christ are the elect.
"Their's was to service, not salvation"?
Then you state, " Those that trust in the Son and are found in Christ are elect. "
How is it you fail to see you are preaching merited salvation by works, not by grace? Honestly, just read your own words for what they explicitly say.
Silverhair, your gospel is not preached in the Bible.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
How do you not see what the bible says. God saves those that trust in the Son, if you do not believe then you are not saved. Dis you forget what it says in Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith,..." then it continues " and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast." That is not merit that is just fulfilling the condition that God has made. Since God does not consider faith as merit why do you? Does it unset you that God does not follow your Calvinist Theology?
And to forestall your silly reply that faith is the gift of God rather that salvation lets let Paul answer that for us Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
You hang your hat on this idea that faith is a work, but Paul would disagree.
Gal_2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Let those words from the bible sink in. Faith is not a work. It is only your Calvinist philosophy that requires faith to be a work, not the bible.
Lol, now I see your angle, you're going to try to wrest the scripture of Romans 9 to include only the above. Like I said, you anti-Cals chop up the scriptures into bits and pieces that suits your humanistic dogma.
No matter how you try to twist and wrest it, the substance of Romans 9 is all about the purpose of God according to election, not only of a few, but everyone:
22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction:
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9
37818
Well-Known Member
No, I understand the context perfectly. This is you, persisting in chopping it up in order to wring the meaning that suits you from it.
37818
Well-Known Member
And what meaning might that be?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
KY do you actually read what is written. Or is it that you just disagree with anyone that does not hold to your errant view?
What is hard to understand about these words "The election of Isaac, Jacob and even Pharaoh was to carry through Gods' plan of salvation. Theirs' was to service not to salvation." Do you see a limit placed on salvation in those words? If you do it is only because your theology requires it.
Silverhair, read these words:
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
~ Ephesians 2:4-5
Silverhair, look at what God does. It's all God. Stop trying to take credit for your salvation.
Nowhere is our human will and choice to trust a requirement before God can save.
No, our capacity to trust and believe comes as an effect of God causing us to be saved. You keep taking from God's glory and attempt to put that glory onto yourself. It is so massively man-centered on your part and you are blind to what you are doing.
Faith is not merited. It is always a gift God gives to His elect children. Therefore, you are wrong in your grasp of what I teach.
All the verses you quote entirely support what I teach. God is fully the Savior and He doesn't need your help...or your permission.
37818
Well-Known Member
Correct.