So where did this conversation begin? It began with these sides opposed:
Bob Ryan said:
Stopping all of Christ's work in atonement at the Cross - denies His atoning work in Heb 7-10 and rejects the teaching on Atonement that God gives in Lev 16.
GE:
Jesus’ atonement ‘stopped’ - i.e., was perfected - in resurrection from the dead. Ephesians 1:19f
BR:
Please note the missing data to support that claim -
Eph 1:19, “and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might.”
#1. This says nothing about ignoring God's instruction on Atonement in Lev 16.
#2. It says nothing about the process of atonement of Lev 16 being “completed at the resurrection”.
#3. It says nothing about the ‘High Priestly work’ of Lev 16 being negated or completed PRIOR to Christ's High Priestly work EXPLICITLY identified in Heb 7-10 that is EXPLICITLY stated as STARTING after the resurrection.
Quote, originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn:
and Hebrews is ABSOLUTELY clear on this.
Notice the contradictory facts IN the text of Hebrews that would deny the statement above.
#1. Hebrews 7-8 DOES say Christ STARTED His High Priestly work ONLY AFTER going to heaven.
#2. Hebrews 8 DOES say that Christ WAS NOT functioning in High Priestly roles while on earth. (See vs 4).
#3. Hebrews 7-10 DOES point to Christ's work AFTER the Cross FOR US - JUST as the Lev 16 model given By God - predicts!!
Ignoring inconvenient details is not the way to build a doctrinal position.
Christ finished making a "Sacrifice for sin" at His death.
For this reason we see in 1John 2:2 that the "Atoning Sacrifice" (NIV) is COMPLETE at the cross.
JUST as Lev 16 SHOWS - that atoning sacrifice IS The core and basis of the Atonement process. But this gives us NO excuse to ignore and deny the role of the High Priestly work of Christ IN ATONEMENT as DESCRIBED in Lev 16 and EXPLICITLY identified in Heb 7-10!
So the point remains.
Quote, originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn:
EVERYTHING at and of Christ's Second Coming is DEPENDANT upon his FINISHED work in and through resurrection "from the dead", and its IMMEDIATE and INSEPARABLE "exaltation" to the right hand of God Almighty "in heavenly places".
This is the ‘common ground’ that both agree on. It can not be used as support for the ‘differences’.
BOTH views AGREE that the Atonement is FINISHED by the time of the 2nd coming because Christ's work as High Priest has ended at then AS WELL as the Atoning Sacrifice being completed at the Cross.
BOTH views accept that the Atoning Sacrifice is the core and foundation for the process of Atonement as God instructs in Lev 16.
Quote, originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Atonement had been DONE; and it had been OBTAINED FULLY; and what is most wonderful about this, is that atonement “IS FINISHED” “TO-US-WARD”
Nice ‘waxing eloquent’ - poor exegesis, no text.
GE:
No further comment at this point in time, it’s too wearisome; and being Sabbath now, I wish to take a rest in the surety of a finished atonement “for evermore” – for me too, yes, in Christ, while once for all in resurrection from the dead.
Hey, Bob Ryan,
back after a good night's sleep.
“Quote, originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn:
EVERYTHING at and of Christ's Second Coming is DEPENDANT upon his FINISHED work in and through resurrection "from the dead", and His IMMEDIATE and INSEPARABLE "exaltation" to the right hand of God Almighty "in heavenly places".
This is the ‘common ground’ that both agree on. It can not be used as support for the ‘differences’.
BOTH views AGREE that the Atonement is FINISHED by the time of the 2nd coming because Christ's work as High Priest has ended at then AS WELL as the Atoning Sacrifice being completed at the Cross.
BOTH views accept that the Atoning Sacrifice is the core and foundation for the process of Atonement as God instructs in Lev 16.
GE:
How gravely are you mistaken!
There is NO ‘common ground’ that both ‘views’ agree on. “It” – i.e., this my statement here given and quoted by you, cannot be used as support for any agreement – it is the crux of all ‘differences’ between us, so here is it again, EVERYTHING at and of Christ's Second Coming is DEPENDANT upon his FINISHED work in and through resurrection:- “FROM THE DEAD”, and His IMMEDIATE and INSEPARABLE “exaltation”:- “FROM THE DEAD”, to the right hand of God Almighty “in heavenly places”.
That means a final atonement made and finished in and with and by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead – an atonement according to your ‘view’ not even begun then, and not even begun until eighteen hundred plus years after.
So, “both views” do not “agree that the Atonement is FINISHED by the time of the 2nd coming because Christ's work as High Priest has ended at then AS WELL as the Atoning Sacrifice being completed at the Cross” – for whatever this muddled statement may hold!
The thing cannot “(have ended)” at two points in time and in two places at once. The Atonement is FINISHED in Jesus’ High Priestly office “when God raised Him from the dead” (upon which the future “2nd coming” depends, because Christ ended and perfected His work as and of High Priest, “then”, “once for all” and “forever” as the Scriptures says. Christ’s “Atoning Sacrifice being completed at the Cross”, one may surely hold for having “STARTED” what God then “finished” “when He raised Christ from the dead”.
Even your assumption “BOTH views accept that the Atoning Sacrifice is the core and foundation for the process of Atonement as God instructs in Lev 16”, betrays your failure to see the disagreement between the two ‘views’ as well as priesthoods, namely that the types of the Levitical system could only foreshadow the death of the Lamb of God, and not His atoning life as “the core and foundation” of our Atonement. The types of the Levitical system could only foreshadow the death of the Lamb of God – the rest was up to faith. As God instructs in Lev 16, these are types only, for the effective atonement came only after, in that God made reconciliation in Christ in the resurrection of Him from the dead – a fact – the fact of atonement – Hebrews indicates by the many metaphors it uses for Jesus' resurrection.
With the first priesthood “the life is in the blood”; life was by faith, through the death of the sacrifice. Faith, by the TAKING of life admitted the sinner’s sin and guilt – it could “not make the comers thereunto perfect”.
But with the Priesthood of the “Better Covenant”, the Sacrifice “drew near” before the Throne of Mercy by His own blood and death. Therefore, with the Priesthood of the “Better Covenant”, atonement is in the LIFE! “I HAVE, the power to lay down MY, life, and, to take it up again.”
Ultimately, Jesus could not be High Priest if He was not High Priest ON EARTH, first.
The Law required it must be the high priest that shall make sacrifice – that shall ACQUIRE BLOOD by TAKING LIFE OUT, for to make an end of atonement in the most holy place.
That same Law required by faith it must be the High Priest of God that shall make Sacrifice of Himself – the High Priest of God that shall ACQUIRE LIFE by the TAKING IN THE BLOOD of His own, into the Most Holy Place for to make an End of Atonement at the right hand of the power of God-in-the-heavens, “which He worked when He raised Christ from the dead”.
Soli Deo Gloria!
Then the earthly priests made atonement by going in into the most holy (like into death) and by coming forth out of the most holy (as out of death) “having made an end of atonement” – they, still mortals, still sinners; but He, going in into death Most Holy being “made a sinner for us”, but coming forth out of death Most Holy of His into life, immortal, sinless, exalted and glorified “above every name that is named not only in this world, but also in that world which is yet to come”. “Coming out” exalted and glorified even above all names of His own whereby He was called before God raised Him from the dead. Thus, High Priest Humbled and Debased to Death going in, now High Priest Appointed and Exalted to Life coming forth – but never, not High Priest, never, not making an end of atonement, never, not bringing in all into accomplished end and will and pleasure of God.
Therefore, He cannot have “remained on earth” else He had to have been a failure in having “made an end of atonement” while on Earth an High Priest.
So insisting Jesus had not been High Priest while on earth He worked the salvation of His Own, is to deny at all He worked the salvation of His Own. It is to deny He is High Priest on the Throne of Majesty in the heavens, NOW!
