" shacking up" and marriage in the eyes of God

[Amy.G]

So you advocate disobedience to God's law just to defeat man's "ungodly" law?

Does that make sense? Or perhaps I misunderstood.

I didn't advocate anything. Many posters have said that to not marry legally under state law is disobedience to God's law as we are to obey our government. I'm just saying that there is no government law that requires a couple to marry legally, so there is no disobedience period.

I'm just posting thoughts about this according to the questions in the OP. It is something I've never really thought about so I'm just discussing.

 

[Amy.G]

This doesn't have a thing to do with governments 'requiring couples to get married' and I am not sure how that even got in the mix. No one is suggesting that government requires couples to be married.

It got in the mix because of the posts that say the couple is disobeying government laws by not marrying in the court system, thereby disobeying God.

 

[preacher4truth]

It got in the mix because of the posts that say the couple is disobeying government laws by not marrying in the court system, thereby disobeying God.

But that's completely different than saying others have said government requires couples to get married. If persons want the church to honor their marriage then they should make it legal according to the laws of the land.

I'll put it like this as well. I had a couple ask me to marry them, but they refused to get a license, so I refused to do the ceremony. Should pastors perform marriage ceremonies and not follow the law of requiring a marriage license? In the same sense if these do not follow that protocol the pastor may as well have married them without license as well, and that is what is being condoned. If that is not good enough, then those who believe contrary to the legal factors should just go ahead and hold marriage ceremonies and refuse to obey laws and licenses.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Is there a law that says a pastor cannot have a religious marriage ceremony without a marriage license? I understand a church doctrine may forbid it, but does the law?

 

[preacher4truth]

Is there a law that says a pastor cannot have a religious marriage ceremony without a marriage license?

Go for it then and see if your pastor is game as well. You might want to talk to a lawyer first though. I'd hate to see suits come piling up against the church or pastor.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Go for it then and see if your pastor is game as well. You might want to talk to a lawyer first though. I'd hate to see suits come piling up against the church or pastor.

I was asking a question because I don't know the answer. If I am to apply Romans 13 to marriage then I would assume it must be illegal to religiously marry without govt permission. Otherwise establishing a covenant to God between a man and woman would not apply to Romans 13 if it is not illegal. There would be no disobedience to authority. Of course the authorities may not recognize you as married but some could argue that they care less whether they do or not. I do not know if it is illegal or not, that's why I asked

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I didn't advocate anything. Many posters have said that to not marry legally under state law is disobedience to God's law as we are to obey our government. I'm just saying that there is no government law that requires a couple to marry legally, so there is no disobedience period.

I'm just posting thoughts about this according to the questions in the OP. It is something I've never really thought about so I'm just discussing.

OK, I'm sorry. I obviously misread the motivation for your post. You are quite right. :thumbsup:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Is there a law that says a pastor cannot have a religious marriage ceremony without a marriage license? I understand a church doctrine may forbid it, but does the law?

The law doesn't care what kind of ceremony is performed. It only cares that the one performing any ceremony for a marriage 1) is licensed by the state to duly aver that the couple should be recognized as a married couple, and 2) properly fills out the paperwork for the state that it will accept to affirm the couple is, in fact, legally wed.

 

[preacher4truth]

The law doesn't care what kind of ceremony is performed. It only cares that the one performing any ceremony for a marriage 1) is licensed by the state to duly aver that the couple should be recognized as a married couple, and 2) properly fills out the paperwork for the state that it will accept to affirm the couple is, in fact, legally wed.

Exactly.

It has been argued here that others have stated the government requires couples to be married. That is untrue. Government doesn't mandate couples must marry. No one here has argued this though that has been the contention of some. Wherever persons came up with this 'government requires couples to marry' nonsense is beyond me. No one has claimed this within this thread.

In addition, marriage licenses serve a purpose. A pastor can be compelled to marry a couple without a license when one or both could possibly be legally married to another; could be marrying a cousin, relative &c, and for these reasons and more a license to become legally married is required and should be required.

We've witnessed in church a couple who desired to be married by the pastor (myself) without a license. As a church we do not recognize such a marriage and require a marriage license, which is to be signed by the one who has officiated the marriage. The couple refused to abide to legal marriage protocol. I refused to officiate their marriage. One of the two was found to be legally married to another, but they believed they were already married in the eyes of God. There are others who live together who have jumped protocol who wish to be recognized as married in the eyes of God. I'd be cautious to accept someones word when following legal procedure is so easy. Something is most likely amiss. Use caution.

There is no reason for not following the legalities involved in performing a legal and proper marriage.

Others here seem to believe that none of this matters and that marriage is a right outside of the laws of the land and that the church overrides these legalities.

Here is the law for marriages in our State. We do not recognize 'religious' marriages.

You can go to the home page on the link and find out what your state believes.

 

[JohnnyReb]

There is a few good reasons to not go the legal route. For 1 it makes you a slave to the state. Family court is a beast to be involved in. They will rob you of everything hou have and take your kids away. Generally it is the man who gets the shaft and women know this. It is easy for a woman to lure a man into legal marriage and divorce him a week later and rob him blind via the State.This is work of the Devil and being in the legal system makes it easy.
.

If you think about it govt could very well be why people fear legal marriage! Big government could be the blame for " shacking up". Marriage and Divorce is keeping the lawyers and judges rich. It's big buisiness in this country. Gee I wonder why divorce is so easy....probably because that's how the lawyers and judges get paid! If nobody gets married and divorced in the legal system then they don't get paid. He who loves money never has enough and we all know the state wants our money so why not require marriages to be legal.

 

[salzer mtn]

I think common law marriage is now being recognized as far as what worldly goods belongs to who.

 

[annsni]

There is a few good reasons to not go the legal route. For 1 it makes you a slave to the state. Family court is a beast to be involved in. They will rob you of everything hou have and take your kids away. Generally it is the man who gets the shaft and women know this. It is easy for a woman to lure a man into legal marriage and divorce him a week later and rob him blind via the State.This is work of the Devil and being in the legal system makes it easy.

So shacking up is better? When your girlfriend decide to leave and take the kids, it's just a matter of leaving and not telling you where they are going. Oh wait - what will happen? You end up in family court trying to get your kids back. Hmmm - so legal marriage or not, you're still in the same boat.
.

 

[JohnnyReb]

So shacking up is better? When your girlfriend decide to leave and take the kids, it's just a matter of leaving and not telling you where they are going. Oh wait - what will happen? You end up in family court trying to get your kids back. Hmmm - so legal marriage or not, you're still in the same boat.
.

Ask yourself this.....did this happen often 100 years ago? When the legal system wasn't much of a issue when it came to marriage and divorce this scenario was not common. So you habe to wonder if the legal system makes running away from your relationship with the kids easier or worse. Obviously it makes it easier and I think it provides incentive to do just that when things don't go your way. There is no consequence and often it is rewarding. Is this a good or a bad thing whether married or not to have the state reward renegade spouses....you decide. And often we wonder why society is going down the toilet

 

[preacher4truth]

There is a few good reasons to not go the legal route. For 1 it makes you a slave to the state. Family court is a beast to be involved in. They will rob you of everything hou have and take your kids away. Generally it is the man who gets the shaft and women know this. It is easy for a woman to lure a man into legal marriage and divorce him a week later and rob him blind via the State.This is work of the Devil and being in the legal system makes it easy.

So those who are married legally are state slaves, and it all boils down to the Devil? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[annsni]

Ask yourself this.....did this happen often 100 years ago? When the legal system wasn't much of a issue when it came to marriage and divorce this scenario was not common. So you habe to wonder if the legal system makes running away from your relationship with the kids easier or worse. Obviously it makes it easier and I think it provides incentive to do just that when things don't go your way. There is no consequence and often it is rewarding. Is this a good or a bad thing whether married or not to have the state reward renegade spouses....you decide. And often we wonder why society is going down the toilet

I don't believe it had anything to do with the legal system but with our culture. Divorce was looked down upon 100 years ago. You still had to go through the legal system but it was not embraced so women (and men) tended to stay married even when they should have divorced.

 

[salzer mtn]

I think D-I-V-O-R-C-E got more popular after Tammie Wynette wrote and sung her popular hit. Or maybe George Jones, I stopped loving her today song popularized divorces, Oh well, where's that box of chocolate.

 

[Aaron]

The law doesn't care what kind of ceremony is performed. It only cares that the one performing any ceremony for a marriage 1) is licensed by the state to duly aver that the couple should be recognized as a married couple . . .

Not in your state.

All marriage is common law marriage. Notice the term "law" in the previous sentence.

But a license isn't a mere recognition of marriage. It is a contract making the state a third party to the union. Ask any probate lawyer. Not so with a common law marriage.