_The ten commamdments are a creation ordinance,and existed before the jewish state....before God put them on stone.
What law did people sin against before Moses?
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Shopping on Sundays?
- Thread starter Thousand Hills
- Start date
_The ten commamdments are a creation ordinance,and existed before the jewish state....before God put them on stone.
What law did people sin against before Moses?
freeatlast
New Member
I have a question. Do you believe that people are lost because they sin?
Hello Targus,
We all fall short of keeping God's law/word....we sin.
you said;
[QUOTE but I do not believe that keeping the Sabbath includes not going to a store.
What is unholy about buying something in a store?[/QUOTE]
][/QUOTE
I am not the sabbath police and I am still learning these things myself.
What comes to mind is how can we determine how to keep the day unto the Lord? Some have looked to the Ot to see what was involved,or required.
A passage that is quoted in the confessions is isa58
The idea being this......we have six days to do anything we want....work,play in the garden, go shopping, enjoy hobbies,travel etc. doing whatever is our own pleasure. One day in 7 is set apart unto God....where we can do what he would have us to do. It is a benefit to us anyway. The idea being most of what people object to could easily be taken care of during the other 6 days anyway......with just a small amount of planning.
Then does that mean that you would not watch television, listen to the radio, ride a bike, take a walk, play with your children or grandchildren, cook a meal, take a swim, or any of a million other things on Sunday?
What would be on your list of things that God would have us do on Sunday?
Blending fabrics was also a violation of the Law, no?
You can do many of the things on your list. The idea is more to cease from normal working that you do on the other 6 days......except for works of necessity or mercy.
A doctor or nurse or police still help people.....criminals usually do not stop commiting crimes on the Lords day.
The idea is not to come up with a rigid legalistic list of things we cannot do.
The idea would be to worship God, to minister to the saints, to open your home to practice biblical hospitality......to visit the sick...nursing homes,hospitals, visitors to church in other words invite people to your home for gospel purposes. When they come over discuss biblical topics,instead of oprah. Talk of holy things that edify instead of what espn might say.
Discuss the things of God,more than what walmart has on sale.
It is not like you must stop breathing or enjoying life,or grandchildren or anything. It is more the idea where God gives us one day in seven where we get to do this apart from the cares of the world, crowding in and squashing any holy thoughts.
Blending fabrics was also a violation of the Law, no?
Which of the 10 commandments did that violate WD?
that was ceremonial...not moral
As Christians, the things in your list should be done everyday or any day. There is no specific day for the Christian to stop his or her normal activity and do good things.
We gather on Sunday or whenever to worship corporately and edify one another. All days should be devoted to doing good and serving God. There is no scheduled Sabbath day for the Christian.
If I wanted to I wouldn't have time anyhow on a Sunday!
My choice would be to REST if free time was there. As it is my violin girl has to be at the church building first, then hubby and I have to be there early too but not as early, then we end around noon and I go home and prepare lunner. (a meal big enough to work for both lunch and dinner.) Then depending on what's up, hubby and I have to be back at the church at 3:30, 4:00, or 4:30, get done at 5:30, sometimes my violin girl has to be there and sometimes my drama girl has to be there at some random time, then hubby or hubby and I go home and pick up the kids that are home and be back at six. Then go home, clean, youngest get started on night time routine, older ones do their showering and ready for school, so...
I suppose I could go all holy and say I refuse to shop on Sundays for religious reasons, but I really just don't have the time or inclination. It's definitely not a day of rest even though I try not to do anything stressful, but what is that when you have three teenage kiddos and two special needs preteens?! I do often stay at the church in the evening while hubby goes home to pick up kids. In my world, that's defined as rest!
My choice would be to REST if free time was there. As it is my violin girl has to be at the church building first, then hubby and I have to be there early too but not as early, then we end around noon and I go home and prepare lunner. (a meal big enough to work for both lunch and dinner.) Then depending on what's up, hubby and I have to be back at the church at 3:30, 4:00, or 4:30, get done at 5:30, sometimes my violin girl has to be there and sometimes my drama girl has to be there at some random time, then hubby or hubby and I go home and pick up the kids that are home and be back at six. Then go home, clean, youngest get started on night time routine, older ones do their showering and ready for school, so...
I suppose I could go all holy and say I refuse to shop on Sundays for religious reasons, but I really just don't have the time or inclination. It's definitely not a day of rest even though I try not to do anything stressful, but what is that when you have three teenage kiddos and two special needs preteens?! I do often stay at the church in the evening while hubby goes home to pick up kids. In my world, that's defined as rest!
...and the Sabbath is not part of that? How is a day of rest "moral"?
Our Father did show us the pattern for taking a day of rest and traditionally, His people take a day of rest once a week.
We first see it in creation, where creation took six days and the Creator rested on the seventh.
We see in scripture that the earliest people and believers followed this pattern.
Logic, history, and tradition prove the value of a day of rest.
Everyone needs a physical and mental break. It's logical that the break comes in the form of getting AWAY FROM THE WORLD for a day and spending time with like-minded people to be encouraged and refreshed mentally, then resting at home as much as possible to physically renew.
Some can't do this on Sundays because they are the ones serving other believers, so it makes sense that they would need to choose another day as a day of rest.
To say it's not Scriptural is just not right. There's evidence all over that lets us know it is the way we're meant to function and anyone who has worked days on end without a break knows how difficult it can be mentally and/or physically. Not mentally healthy, not physically healthy, which ends up violating the mandate to take care of bodies.
We first see it in creation, where creation took six days and the Creator rested on the seventh.
We see in scripture that the earliest people and believers followed this pattern.
Logic, history, and tradition prove the value of a day of rest.
Everyone needs a physical and mental break. It's logical that the break comes in the form of getting AWAY FROM THE WORLD for a day and spending time with like-minded people to be encouraged and refreshed mentally, then resting at home as much as possible to physically renew.
Some can't do this on Sundays because they are the ones serving other believers, so it makes sense that they would need to choose another day as a day of rest.
To say it's not Scriptural is just not right. There's evidence all over that lets us know it is the way we're meant to function and anyone who has worked days on end without a break knows how difficult it can be mentally and/or physically. Not mentally healthy, not physically healthy, which ends up violating the mandate to take care of bodies.
We seldom shop or dine out on Sunday, but not because we are trying to be lawkeepers.
We happen to like going to church on Sundays, and spending time with family on Sundays.
And because we do those things, we want others to be able to do them also.
Which they cannot if they have to work.
We happen to like going to church on Sundays, and spending time with family on Sundays.
And because we do those things, we want others to be able to do them also.
Which they cannot if they have to work.
Free,
I believe all men died in Adam[romans 5:12-21,1cor 15;22
All men being dead in Adam sin in life by nature because they are sinners.
we are also told this;
[QUOTE 3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
][/QUOTE]
So men are lost and condemned because of sin,and a satanic blindness.
Only God can save man. He has purposed to save a multitude of men in His Son. These men he has elected to salvation he calls His Sheep.
In a biblical sense"only" these sheep are lost and going to be found by the shepherd.
Amy,
We are christians everyday. We can and should do good works everyday.
God who gave the 10 commandments has said that we should labor 6 of the seven days. Most people who labor during the week working 40-70 hours a week......lack time ,energy or money to do these good works 24/7.
Any person who glorifys God by working unto Him during the week looks forward to having a day set aside by God to worship Him.
There is a scheduled day for the christain;
heb4 9there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God,
Here is a good commentary on Heb 4:9. In short, it says that the Sabbath rest refers to heaven, not a scheduled day of the week.
Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Hebrews 4:9
Verse 9. There remaineth, therefore, a rest. This is the conclusion to which the apostle comes. The meaning is this, that according to the Scriptures there is now a promise of rest made to the people of God. It did not pertain merely to those who were called to go to the promised land, nor to those who lived in the time of David, but it is still true that the promise of rest pertains to all the people of God of every generation. The reasoning by which the apostle comes to this conclusion is briefly this.
(1.) That there was a rest called "the rest of God"--spoken of in the earliest period of the world--implying that God meant that it should be enjoyed.
(2.) That the Israelites, to whom the promise was made, failed of obtaining that which was promised by their unbelief.
(3.) That God intended that some should enter into his rest--since it would not be provided in vain.
(4.) That long after the Israelites had fallen in the wilderness, we find the same reference to a rest which David in his time exhorts those whom he addressed to endeavour to obtain.
(5.) That if all that had been meant by the word rest, and by the promise, had been accomplished when Joshua conducted the Israelites to the land of Canaan, we should not have heard another day spoken of when it was possible to forfeit that rest by unbelief. It followed, therefore, that there was something besides that; something that pertained to all the people of God, to which the name rest might still be given, and which they were exhorted still to obtain. The word rest in this verse sabbatismoV Sabbatism, in the margin is rendered keeping of a Sabbath. It is a different word from sabbaton --the Sabbath; and it occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, and is not found in the Septuagint. It properly means, a keeping Sabbath-- from sabbatizw to keep Sabbath. This word, not used in the New Testament, occurs frequently in the Septuagint, Ex 16:30; Le 23:32; 26:35; 2Ch 36:21 and in 3 Esd. i. 58; 2 Mac. vi. 6. It differs from the word Sabbath. That denotes the time--the day, this, the keeping, or observance of it; the festival. It means here, a resting, or an observance of sacred repose--and refers undoubtedly to heaven, as a place of eternal rest with God. It cannot mean the rest in the land of Canaan--for the drift of the writer is to prove that that is not intended. It cannot mean the Sabbath, properly so called--for then the writer would have employed the usual word sabbaton--Sabbath. It cannot mean the Christian Sabbath--for the object is not to prove that there is such a day to be observed; and his reasoning about being excluded from it by unbelief and by hardening the heart would be irrelevant. It must mean, therefore, heaven--the world of spiritual and eternal rest; and the assertion is, that there is such a resting, or keeping of a Sabbath in heaven for the people of God. Learn hence,
(1.) that heaven is a place of cessation from wearisome toil. It is to be like the "rest" which God had after the work of creation, (Heb 4:4) Cmt. on Heb 4:4, and of which that was the type and emblem. There will be employment there, but it will be without fatigue; there will be the occupation of the mind, and of whatever powers we may possess, but without weariness. Here we are often worn down and exhausted. The body sinks under continued toil, and falls into the grave. There the slave will rest from his toil; the man here oppressed and broken down by anxious care will cease from his labours. We know but little of heaven; but we know that a large part of what now oppresses and crushes the frame will not exist there. Slavery will be unknown; the anxious care for support will be unknown, and all the exhaustion which proceeds from the love of gain, and from ambition, will be unknown. In the wearisome toils of life, then, let us look forward to the rest that remains in heaven; and as the labourer looks to the shades of the evening, or to the Sabbath, as a period of rest, so let us look to heaven as the place of eternal repose.
(2.) Heaven will be like a Sabbath. The best description of it is to say it is an eternal Sabbath. Take the Sabbath on earth, when best observed, and extend the idea to eternity, and let there be separated all idea of imperfection from its observance, and that would be heaven. The Sabbath is holy; so is heaven. It is a period of worship; so is heaven. It is for praise, and for the contemplation of heavenly truth; so is heaven. The Sabbath is appointed that we may lay aside worldly cares and anxieties for a little season here; heaven, that we may lay, them aside for ever.
(3.) The Sabbath here should be like heaven. It is designed to be its type and emblem. So far as the circumstances of the case will allow, it should be just like heaven. There should be the same employments; the same joys; the same communion with God. One of the best rules for employing the Sabbath aright is, to think what heaven will be, and then to endeavour to spend it in the same way. One day in seven at least should remind us of what heaven is to be; and that day may be, and should be, the most happy of the seven.
(4.) They who do not love the Sabbath on earth are not prepared for heaven. If it is to them a day of tediousness; if its hours move heavily; if they have no delight in its sacred employments, what would an eternity of such days be? How would they be passed? Nothing can be clearer than that if we have no such happiness in a season of holy rest, and in holy employments here, we are wholly unprepared for heaven. To the Christian it is the subject of the highest joy in anticipation, that heaven is to be one long, unbroken SABBATH--an eternity of successive Sabbath hours. But what, to a sinner, could be a more repulsive and gloomy prospect than such an eternal Sabbath?
(5.) If this be so, then what a melancholy view is furnished as to the actual preparation of the great mass of men for heaven! How is the Sabbath now spent? In idleness; in business; in travelling; in hunting and fishing; in light reading and conversation; in sleep; in visiting; in riding, walking, lounging, ennui; in revelry and dissipation; in any and every way except the right way; in every way except in holy communion with God. What would the race be if once translated to heaven as they are! What a prospect would it be to this multitude to have to spend an eternity, which would be but a prolongation of the Sabbath of holiness!
(6.) Let those who love the Sabbath rejoice in the prospect of eternal rest in heaven. In our labour let us look to that world where wearisome toil is unknown; in our afflictions, let us look to that world where tears never fall; and when our hearts are pained by the violation of the Sabbath all around us, let us look to that blessed world where such violation will cease for ever. It is not far distant. A few steps will bring us there. Of any Christian it may be said that perhaps his next Sabbath will be spent in heaven--near the throne of God.
{3} "a rest" or "keeping of a Sabbath"
Theologians refer to a threefold division of the law;
1] moral the 10 commandments
2]judicial the govermental laws
3]ceremonial the religious laws
Some aspects of the jewish sabbath did take upon themselves ceremonial aspects during mosaic times, these were completed and done away in Jesus
even the law of mixed fabric you spoke about.
The ten commandments are not done away in Christ.They are in our heart in the new covenant
here is how it is explained in the 1689 confession of faith
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Ah, I begin to see the problem:
Where do you get the idea that the Law can be separated into parts we obey and parts we don't? All scripture as scripture itself tells us is useful for instruction and reproof. But the Law is whole. You can't divide it into pieces. Go back and read Exodus again. God gave the Law as a whole identity for the children of Israel. The ENTIRE Law, ceremonial, moral, civil, was fulfilled by Christ. No one part of the Law is any more important than any other part of the law and breaking any one part of the Law results in having broken the entire thing. As James says:
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
You can't seperate out the 10 Commandments from the rest and say "these must still be obeyed or your salvation isn't complete". You can't even seperate out those 10 and say these are the most important, because Christ Himself said that that the two greatest commandments were to "love your God and love thy neighbor as thyself" and on those two hang the entire law and the words of the prophets.
The Law served its purpose in pointing man toward Christ, but once Christ was come, the Law now only serves as a curse.
Galations puts it this way:
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them.
Gal 3:11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith;
Gal 3:12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us;
.
.
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Gal 3:24 So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
I'm justified by faith. Keeping the Law doesn't make me anymore justified. That task has been accomplished by Christ. It's done.
Where do you get the idea that the Law can be separated into parts we obey and parts we don't? All scripture as scripture itself tells us is useful for instruction and reproof. But the Law is whole. You can't divide it into pieces. Go back and read Exodus again. God gave the Law as a whole identity for the children of Israel. The ENTIRE Law, ceremonial, moral, civil, was fulfilled by Christ. No one part of the Law is any more important than any other part of the law and breaking any one part of the Law results in having broken the entire thing. As James says:
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
You can't seperate out the 10 Commandments from the rest and say "these must still be obeyed or your salvation isn't complete". You can't even seperate out those 10 and say these are the most important, because Christ Himself said that that the two greatest commandments were to "love your God and love thy neighbor as thyself" and on those two hang the entire law and the words of the prophets.
The Law served its purpose in pointing man toward Christ, but once Christ was come, the Law now only serves as a curse.
Galations puts it this way:
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them.
Gal 3:11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith;
Gal 3:12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us;
.
.
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Gal 3:24 So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
I'm justified by faith. Keeping the Law doesn't make me anymore justified. That task has been accomplished by Christ. It's done.
Amy,
this commentary that you quoted supports my position of both a sabbath here and in heaven
this commentary that you quoted supports my position of both a sabbath here and in heaven
preacher4truth
Active Member
Iconoclast, would shopping on Sunday be a violation to you against the commandments of God or Christ?
(sorry, quoted wrong person here...)
So if there is no list - why are you putting "shopping" on the list?
Does cooking violate the above also?
If not - why not?