Should a Christian Serve in the Military?

[go2church]

Ah, but therein lies the problem. If everybody thought this way, then you can guarantee that our freedoms would disappear, then it wouldn't exactly be easy whatsoever to be concerned with your spiritual responsibilities. Best case scenario, we'd go back to the Church of England days, in which we fought a war to get away from. If your forefathers felt the same way, that would have never happened. Worst case scenario we'd have a Taliban guy with an AK-47 pointed at us telling us to kneel to Allah 5 times a day among other things or basically be put to death.

I bet if you really thought about it, you're extremely happy that there are real men who are extremely concerned with protecting YOUR freedom as an American citizen.

You aren't going back far enough in history. The 1st Century church did not fight any wars or lead any "take back America" type rally to inflame the masses instead they simply preached the Gospel, lived the Gospel and died for the Gospel. That seemed to work pretty well as far as I could see.

I am hoping I mature to the point that the words of Philippians 1 are the words that represent who I am in Jesus. Right now I am not sure that is the case, but that is the goal. That being said, I can't necessarily get to where God wants me if being an American is more important to me then being a Christian.

I am blessed to live where I am, grateful for the sacrifices of those that have gone on before me but I also realize that the reason God may have chosen to place me here is for the very reason that I may not have been able to handle being a believer anywhere else where it is not as free.

I thank you for the concern of my "manhood" and will take it under advisement

 

[Rufus_1611]

Ah, but therein lies the problem. If everybody thought this way, then you can guarantee that our freedoms would disappear, then it wouldn't exactly be easy whatsoever to be concerned with your spiritual responsibilities. Best case scenario, we'd go back to the Church of England days, in which we fought a war to get away from. If your forefathers felt the same way, that would have never happened. Worst case scenario we'd have a Taliban guy with an AK-47 pointed at us telling us to kneel to Allah 5 times a day among other things or basically be put to death.

I bet if you really thought about it, you're extremely happy that there are real men who are extremely concerned with protecting YOUR freedom as an American citizen.

I thought the bumper sticker said "Real men love Jesus". Now it should read "Real men kill Iraqis"? If there are real men fighting for our freedom in Iraq what about the women that are dying over there? Does that make them real men too?

 

[corndogggy]

I just think it's kind of pathetic for someone to proclaim how little they are concerned with protecting their American freedoms, on multiple levels... the most obvious of which is that it's simply highly insulting to those who have to protect it for you at this very moment, and to those who have protected it in the past, perhaps dying while doing so. I can't believe that some of you would go so far as to hint around that these good people who do protect our freedoms cannot possibly be a Christian.

 

[corndogggy]

Also keep in mind that those of you who can only think of Iraq when someone mentions "protecting our freedom" are narrow minded.

What about the Coast Guard? There are good people right this moment with automatic weapons risking their lives on the open sea keeping drugs and illegals out of our country.

What about our computer specialists in the military? Right now China has technology and the funds to basically both bankrupt us and cause untold havoc in our financial sector and you can get your life that there are good people right this moment trying to counteract this threat. What do you think we were doing 2 miles off the coast of China in 1998 with a spy plane with sensitive electronics? We're trying to figure out what they're up to in order to counter this threat. If these people quit doing their jobs, how long do you think you'd be able to enjoy your American freedoms? These people are very much in the military.

How about border patrols? If we didn't have armed guys on the border, many more illegals would come and go as they please, some of which would at least eventually be terrorists. We've already found some in Canada trying to get in over here in order to kill people. These people save lives by doing this, possibly your own.

What about covert ops? I can guarantee you that there are tons of people who would love to do us severe harm. I can also guarantee you that wherever there's potential trouble, we have elite military guys in the area for intelligence. Just because you don't know about them doesn't mean they don't exist, and it definitely doesn't mean that these things aren't protecting your freedom.

Without any of the guys and unmentioned scores more, yes, our freedoms could very well be in grave danger.


So basically, just because some of you don't like how Iraq has turned out doesn't mean you need to be both issuing a negative blanket statement concerning all of our military, thinking that our military doesn't protect you by using some lame example of how some Afghan guy isn't threatening us. Our military protects your sorry self every single day.

 

[Rufus_1611]

So basically, just because some of you don't like how Iraq has turned out doesn't mean you need to be both issuing a negative blanket statement concerning all of our military, thinking that our military doesn't protect you by using some lame example of how some Afghan guy isn't threatening us. Our military protects your sorry self every single day.

My sorry self requests that you define "freedom" and define how our standing army is protecting that "freedom".

 

[corndogggy]

Please provide a couple examples of the "freedom" they are fighting for. Once you have provided those examples, please cite a specific example of an Iraqi or an Afghani infringing upon one of these freedoms.

You really don't think that the people in the Afghani training camp that Bill Clinton sent about $50 million worth of cruise missles to destroy wasn't trying to infringe on any of our freedoms? Everybody keeps thinking that Bush made this huge mistake, but this stuff was happening well before he came around. At least he was a little more aggressive about trying to do something about it.

 

[corndogggy]

My sorry self requests that you define "freedom"

If I have to define American freedom to you... wow. A small part of it includes your freedom to come on here and spout off your mouth about our government and their military decisions however you please without fear of being put in prison or worse.

define how our standing army is protecting that "freedom".

You ever heard of the idea of "Peace Through Superior Firepower"? Well, that's one way, and probably the biggest. There's several other ways listed above, although it includes other military branches and not just "the Army".

 

[Rufus_1611]

If I have to define American freedom to you... wow.

If it's so easy, it shouldn't be a problem for you.

You ever heard of the idea of "Peace Through Superior Firepower"? Well, that's one way, and probably the biggest. There's several other ways listed above, although it includes other military branches and not just "the Army".

I've heard that. I've never heard "Peace through killing 200,000-600,000 Iraqi's and 3,000-5,000 American soldiers and maiming 10s of thousands of American soldiers all because of a nation that neither attacked us nor threatened to do so." This is a new peace theory to me.

 

[Steven2006]

One thing that I have noticed. It appears on the surface that the majority of the people on this thread that are conscientious objectors seem to look at this as a personal decision between them and God, but still respect those that serve. While the people that agree with military service, seem to take exception to anyone who doesn't feel the same way. I would like to think that as Christians we would be the last people that would judge fellow Christians when it came to personal convictions. But there has been a lot of subtle and even not so subtle attacks at fellow brothers beliefs. The OP asked an honest question. He obviously had at least some reservation because he brought up the point in the original post. I would assume he would like to hear both points of views, I don't see why people have a problem with everyone giving their honest answers.

So while it is not in me to ever put myself in the situation were I would be expected to take a life. I do love and pray for our solders often. But I do have to admit I pray for our enemies also. Now don't confuse being a conscientious objector for Godly reasons the same as the Cindy Sheehan type of crowd. That type of group disgust me. For the most part my political views run very conservative. But for this topic I answer to God, not politicians.

 

[bapmom]

Rufus,

they HAVE threatened us.......they have aided and harbored terrorists who's one goal is to destroy us and our country. They have sold them weapons and hidden them within their borders. "Innocent Iraqis and Afghanis" are not the ones being targeted. It is terrorists (not insurgents) who we are fighting against......and these terrorists want to kill as many of us non-Muslims as they can - man, woman, or child - they care not. In fact, if one of their fellow Muslims is not "Muslim enough" they will kill them, too.

No, on our side it is not a religion-vs-religion war......but on their side it is.

 

[bapmom]

One thing that I have noticed. It appears on the surface that the majority of the people on this thread that are conscientious objectors seem to look at this as a personal decision between them and God, but still respect those that serve. While the people that agree with military service, seem to take exception to anyone who doesn't feel the same way. I would like to think that as Christians we would be the last people that would judge fellow Christians when it came to personal convictions. But there has been a lot of subtle and even not so subtle attacks at fellow brothers beliefs. The OP asked an honest question. He obviously had at least some reservation because he brought up the point in the original post. I would assume he would like to hear both points of views, I don't see why people have a problem with everyone giving their honest answers.

So while it is not in me to ever put myself in the situation were I would be expected to take a life. I do love and pray for our solders often. But I do have to admit I pray for our enemies also. Now don't confuse being a conscientious objector for Godly reasons the same as the Cindy Sheehan type of crowd. That type of group disgust me. For the most part my political views run very conservative. But for this topic I answer to God, not politicians.

the only ones I take exception to are those who continue to imply that our soldiers are killing thousands of innocents in an "unjust" war.

 

[go2church]

I just think it's kind of pathetic for someone to proclaim how little they are concerned with protecting their American freedoms, on multiple levels... the most obvious of which is that it's simply highly insulting to those who have to protect it for you at this very moment, and to those who have protected it in the past, perhaps dying while doing so. I can't believe that some of you would go so far as to hint around that these good people who do protect our freedoms cannot possibly be a Christian.

Which is more important, obedience to God or to America?

I won't insult your intelligence, obviously it is God, which I am sure you would agree

That being the case which one should I be more concerned with?

I am not unconcerned about my freedom nor am I ungrateful for the sacrifices of others as you suggest. I am just hoping to get to the point where my personal freedom is of little concern to me when compared to serving as led by the Holy Spirit.

I would never suggest that someone is not a Christian for serving in the military as you clearly know if you had read my first post on this topic. I did state that even though I had considered military enlistment, I am glad that it did not work out for me. Clearly this is a "dictate of the conscience" matter whichever direction one chooses to go

I'm not sure how be grateful on the one hand and striving for spiritual transformation on the other is pathetic, but I will take it under advisement

 

[Steven2006]

the only ones I take exception to are those who continue to imply that our soldiers are killing thousands of innocents in an "unjust" war.

You weren't one of the posters that came to my mind. :jesus:

But surely you see that posters for serving in the military are more bothered by posters that are against it, that the other way around.

 

[Bible-boy]

One thing that I have noticed. It appears on the surface that the majority of the people on this thread that are conscientious objectors seem to look at this as a personal decision between them and God, but still respect those that serve. While the people that agree with military service, seem to take exception to anyone who doesn't feel the same way.

It is funny that you say that because I am pretty sure that I can go back through the thread and pull up quotes from the "anti-war side" of the argument that will reflect the opposite. Likewise, I'd point out that while I fall into the Christian Just Warroir camp, I have never even hinted that I take exception with Christian Pacifists. In fact, I have argued herein that both sides need each other.

 

[Predestined]

U.S. Army Retired - no regrets :thumbs:

 

[Steven2006]

It is funny that you say that because I am pretty sure that I can go back through the thread and pull up quotes from the "anti-war side" of the argument that will reflect the opposite. Likewise, I'd point out that while I fall into the Christian Just Warroir camp, I have never even hinted that I take exception with Christian Pacifists. In fact, I have argued herein that both sides need each other.

You have had the highest conduct throughout, I admire you for it. And I could be wrong but it seemed to me that the original OP asked the question. Then people started answering, and the first people that responded to others answers instead of just answering the OP, were the pro-military group.

 

[corndogggy]

all because of a nation that neither attacked us nor threatened to do so." This is a new peace theory to me.

You mentioned both Iraq and Afghanistan previously. So, let's just do a little history lesson here. Do you remember what happened back in 1990? Iraq invaded and attacked our allies, they invaded Kuwait and shot missles at Saudi and Israel. They've been on our poo-poo list ever since. They did in fact use WMD's back then and before then, so why were we supposed to believe that they had a change of heart and stopped making the things and destroyed the stockpiles from back then? Bin Laden himself rose up during this time period because he was mad that we were over there and mad that Saudi was so dependent on us. Ever since then there have been terrorist camps, embassy bombings, Navy ship bombings, attacks on our own soil, and all kinds of mess, most of which originated out of Afghanistan. So, I don't see how you can say that they never attacked us or threatened to do so. Both Iraq and Afghanistan, the governments or at least significant organizations in each, have in fact attacked our people, our interests, and our allies. Yet, you make them sound so innocent, as if we're a big bully picking on folks for no apparent reason.

So, under your rules of engagement, I guess Israel should have just let the Hamas kill them however they felt like, any time they wanted, since it wasn't actually the official Palestinian government who was "officially" attacking Israel? No, if somebody picks a fight and pushes, the US and Israel is going to push back... just as it ought to be, no matter if it's a rogue organization, or the official government. Just because the official government didn't officially declare war doesn't mean that this is perfectly acceptable, especially if they're consciously harboring terrorist organizations who they undoubtedly know are trying to harm us, which is exactly what happened in Afghanistan.

 

[Rufus_1611]

You mentioned both Iraq and Afghanistan previously. So, let's just do a little history lesson here. Do you remember what happened back in 1990? Iraq invaded and attacked our allies, they invaded Kuwait and shot missles at Saudi and Israel. They've been on our poo-poo list ever since.

The U.S. government gave the green light for that little attack. You ever see the handshake with Rumsfield and Saddam, what was that about exactly history buff? Beyond that the little nation state of Kuwait had plenty of resources to build up there own defense without needing the UN Cop to intervene on their behalf. Since I love freedom, more than entangling alliances, I would say let Kuwait fight their own fights.

They did in fact use WMD's back then and before then, so why were we supposed to believe that they had a change of heart and stopped making the things and destroyed the stockpiles from back then? Bin Laden himself rose up during this time period because he was mad that we were over there and mad that Saudi was so dependent on us.

What does Bin Laden matter now that KSM has "confessed" to being the mastermind behind everything?

Ever since then there have been terrorist camps, embassy bombings, Navy ship bombings, attacks on our own soil, and all kinds of mess, most of which originated out of Afghanistan. So, I don't see how you can say that they never attacked us or threatened to do so. Both Iraq and Afghanistan, the governments or at least significant organizations in each, have in fact attacked our people, our interests, and our allies. Yet, you make them sound so innocent, as if we're a big bully picking on folks for no apparent reason.

We are the biggest bully on the block with a military presence in 150 out of 192 nations. Play by our rules and we'll leave ya alone, don't go with the program prepare to be 'Shock and Awed' and regime changed.

So, under your rules of engagement, I guess Israel should have just let the Hamas kill them however they felt like, any time they wanted, since it wasn't actually the official Palestinian government who was "officially" attacking Israel?

Aahh, you mean like if two soldiers are kidnapped by Hezbollah then you bomb major cities filled with civilians, that kind of thing?

No, if somebody picks a fight and pushes, the US and Israel is going to push back... just as it ought to be, no matter if it's a rogue organization, or the official government.

The U.S. and Israel? Are we one team now? Who's head coach?

Just because the official government didn't officially declare war doesn't mean that this is perfectly acceptable, especially if they're consciously harboring terrorist organizations who they undoubtedly know are trying to harm us, which is exactly what happened in Afghanistan.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Well Im sorry you don't accept that view, but I can't help it if you refuse to accept reality.

I know many soldiers who do indeed witness and carry the gospel to the countries where they are stationed.

I also know of many Christian soldiers involved right now in "military churches" on foreign soil where they are a huge asset to that ministry.

Are you saying that these soldiers wound not attend church in their home town? I would agree that a war is a good situation for evangelizing but so is Main Street and the second situation doesn't involve taking other human beings lives.

 

[bapmom]

Are you saying that these soldiers wound not attend church in their home town? I would agree that a war is a good situation for evangelizing but so is Main Street and the second situation doesn't involve taking other human beings lives.

How on this green earth do you get THIS from what I posted about soldiers witnessing where they are stationed?