Should baptists be part of the free masonry?

[Frogman]

worshipful master is a title of the moderator of the Lodge meetings. It is a title and not used as though he is a substitute for Christ.

You brethren have been told this repeatedly but you ignore truth because you don't want the truth because you have or know that historically Baptists have defamed many otherwise sound men of God by their erroneous view of masonry and church membership.

bro. Dallas

 

[preacher4truth]

Brother Preacher4Truth,
I pointed out the clear statement of the Riggs' document which was provided as a Biblical statement proving to us the error of Masonry. IN that statement that man makes a clear statement founded upon works, if that does not make good Solid Baptists sick at there stomachs then I fail to see how Masonry (which is reported truthfully to you with sources) to NOT be a religion seeking to undermine Christ nor the church in the intent of providing Eternal Life to men or among men, yet it is thought funny to attack my posts (running on)? As though to make me discredited and shamed upon the way that I write?

I can write much better, you still would not understand because your opposition to Masonry is settled in superstition, misapplied, uncontextual statements rather than truth.

You cannot oppose Masonry from Truth, so you receive documents written by men who's opening statement is designed to both inject fear and passion in his readers by stating that "ANY REAL CHRISTIAN" wants to be right in what is believed so that heaven will be his eternal home.

These are his words of works to earn Eternal Life and you want me to believe he has written a sound work of proof for opposing Masonry. Yet my posts sicken you guys?

bro. Dallas

My turning from the lodge isn't from writings, it's from being there.

I've already opposed it from Truth; His name is Jesus and I left it when I got saved. The teaching that men are good? False doctrine. Calling one or another "worshipful master" or "master?" False doctrine.

 

[preacher4truth]

worshipful master is a title of the moderator of the Lodge meetings. Dallas

Which is unbiblical.

 

[Frogman]

Yes AmyG,
Christ taught Nicodemus that except ye be born again ye cannot see nor enter into the Kingdom of God.

This makes Spiritual Birth (life in Christ) to be prior to faith (experience in Christ).

That is what I am saying.

bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

Which is unbiblical.

See, Masonry is not a church, Masonry is not a religion. It is not seeking to replace these things in your life nor my own. It is a separate distinct institute which is not seeking to usurp authority from your local church.

I know masons who have missed and continue to miss meetings because they had a deacons meeting, they had some other church activity; no mason, no officer, no group ostracized them when they returned.

Masonry expects you to support your local church.

Your opposition to masonry is not from any concern rather than misunderstanding and bias. You cannot oppose it by scripture or else you would have successfully done that. Every opposition to Masonry draws upon the passionate emotional response of the audience or as Mr. Riggs' document shows, fear of NOT obtaining a home in eternal heaven if they are not 'right', didn't Paul tell us that at the present time we see and know only in part?

How can any one of us KNOW all truth? If this is a condition for eternal life there will be one man to have heaven as his eternal home and he is the man Christ Jesus.

bro. Dallas

 

[webdog]

worshipful master is a title of the moderator of the Lodge meetings. It is a title and not used as though he is a substitute for Christ.

You brethren have been told this repeatedly but you ignore truth because you don't want the truth because you have or know that historically Baptists have defamed many otherwise sound men of God by their erroneous view of masonry and church membership.

bro. Dallas

So you are implying we should just overlook such a blasphemous title? What, was Jehovah Jira and the Messiah already taken?

 

[Frogman]

So you are implying we should just overlook such a blasphemous title? What, was Jehovah Jira and the Messiah already taken?

I am not implying anything. This is not a title of any degree of worship. If you will look up the Etymology of the word 'worshipful', you perhaps will be able to understand the history and usage of the word. It is retained in masonry because of the time period in which Speculative Masonry became organized.

Otherwise, the word is still used to address city officials in England, judges, and also in Canada too.

It is not a title of address toward 'worship' as we worship the Godhead, but a title of respect indicating one's position in the body of the lodge as moderator of meetings.

It is that alone and simply no more. Anything you add to it is according to your own imagination.

bro. Dallas

 

[Dr. Bob]

We will allow the thread to continue only IF there is an attempt at actual understanding and not just baseless attack.

Think I will begin "snipping" posts that seem to come from intentionally misunderstanding or mistating beliefs/postions. Let's try to keep this at a sane level, folks.

 

[dcorbett]

My Dad was a 3rd degree Mason, my uncle was a 33rd degree. My Dad was a Southern Baptist Deacon from his mid 30s until the day he went to be with the Lord. But I honestly don't know that he ever knew what Masons actually believe!! He joined because that is what men did in the deep south in the 50's.

I was in Job's Daughters - and I am a majority member, I never went "up the line" because that requires a girl to drop pretty much everything else in her life, and I wasn't about to drop band and choir and all the other activities I did.

Later, I helped the Bethel here, but as an adult, I began to see that fraternal organizations are not a good thing - Mormon girls were inducted into the Bethel, based on their "Christian beliefs" as well as Catholic girls.
Since we were under the Masonic umbrella (along with Eastern Star, Demolay, and Rainbow girls) I can only assume that those groups also honor mormons and catholics as Christians. And THAT cannot be good.
I have disassociated myself from fraternal groups as a result.

It reeks of one world religion in my book.

 

[cemab4y]

Clearing this up.

So you are implying we should just overlook such a blasphemous title? What, was Jehovah Jira and the Messiah already taken?

Let's settle this once and for all. The title "Worshipful", is an honorific title. See this from dictionary.com

worshipful (ˈwɜːʃɪpfʊl)

— adj
1. feeling or showing reverence or adoration
2. chiefly ( Brit ) ( often capital ) a title used to address or refer to various people or bodies of distinguished rank, such as mayors and certain ancient companies of the City of London

'worshipfully

— adv

'worshipfulness

— n


Origin:
1250–1300; Middle English; see worship, -ful
=========

"Worshipful" is from middle English, and in the Masonic use, means only a title of respect. In Canada and England, judges are addressed as "your worship" instead of "your honor". And if you read a Wycliffe translation of the Bible, you will read "Worchyppe thy fathir and thy mothir". In Middle English Worship(ful) equals respect or honor.

So get over it.

and

The word "Master" from dictionary.com

master[mas-ter, mah-ster]   Origin mas·ter   /ˈmæstər, ˈmɑstər/ Show Spelled[mas-ter, mah-ster] Show IPA
noun
1. a person with the ability or power to use, control, or dispose of something: a master of six languages; to be master of one's fate.
2. an owner of a slave, animal, etc.
3. an employer of workers or servants.
4. the male head of a household.
Origin:
before 900; Middle English maistre, maister, Old English magister < Latin; akin to magnus great

--
In Masonry, the term "Master" indicates an elected position, of the director or president of the lodge. Similar to the US Merchant Marine, the captain of a ship is called the "master".

So, in Masonry, the term "Worshipful Master" means "Honorable Chapter President". This is the usage and lexicography of the title.

There is no "blashpemy" in this title. Many of the terminology and instructional terms in Freemasonry, come from Middle English, and from a time, before there was widespread literacy. When you pull some these words and phrases, out of context, and import a 21st century understanding of English on top of them, it is easy to get confused and misdirected.

The phraseology and terminology of Freemasonry, is charmingly baroque. That is part of the appeal, and part of the methodology of instruction.

So, Let's put this one to bed, shall we?

 

[Frogman]

Love that quote from Thomas Jefferson, it is amazing how a deist could speak such depth of truth.

Appreciate your testimony Sis. However, I have never found anything in Masonry to be intended toward a one world order of either religion or government.

We do not even speak of religious beliefs beyond a common belief in the Living God who established a Covenant with the House of David to write his law upon the hearts of all his people.

I am a Primitive Baptist in faith and doctrine. I am not Primitive in Practice because my home church excluded me because of my Masonic affiliation. Many good sound Primitive Baptist Elders have labored with me to show me the error of Masonry, but sadly each of these, those who expressed their anti-masonic feelings from a position of Grace and Love, still presented their positions from misunderstandings of the purpose of Masonry.

Masonry clearly states that it has no intention to separate any man who joins them of his own free will from continuing to support and attend his local church.

What is it the great commission has given us to do? Are we to go into all the world and make sheep?

I don't believe the scripture teaches this but instead that we are to preach the gospel to every creature knowing that the sheep are known of Christ. Their belief of the gospel message brings to them gospel salvation, but does not justify them eternally in the sight of God.

Masonry does not seek to justify any in the eternal sight of God. There is the problem most seem to have with Masonry. It is an organization based on good works. It is not an organization seeking to show men a way to heaven by their works. No man can come to Masonry without having a prior faith in God, unless he lies from the beginning of his initiation. If this is the case, then he is not a mason anyway. And this is the reason for the secrecy to detect any who would only come to the organization out of curiosity or thoughts of social gain.

As much as masonry accepts men based on their faith in God, even Christ tells us through the disciples this same thing (John 14:1) let not your heart be troubled, ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Now, if a man chooses to leave masonry that is his freedom to do. Masons do not bother with him, he comes into masonry of his own will, he leaves of his own will.

You'd be surprised how many apply for membership yet never return when they learn there is no other secret to masonry except the work they do selflessly for others.

Masons are taught morals but these are morals that IF they have a faith in God they already know having the law of God written on their hearts without hands.

Masons are taught to serve their fellowman regardless of his station in life or religious affiliations or political connections. In some ways it is a manifestation of the Christian spirit, but it in no way seeks to separate men from their conscience to God.

In fact, when I applied for membership they visited my home and interviewed my wife and children and if they had found my wife opposed my entry into masonry they would not have accepted me. They are not about division, they are not about religious debates, they are about giving of themselves, time and any Blessings that God has blessed them with in this life to help those who are in need.

This is the work of Masons in Masonry.

Politically speaking there are Masons of varying political philosophies, there is no way we can even get members of the same party to agree in Congress so how could we get nearly 5,000,000 members world wide to agree on an universal one world government?

In fact, the truth concerning the history of masonry politically and religiously is that the order they helped to establish in the world is the democratic order we now see where as the Pope and European Kings grew jealous of their imagined wealth and power to travel across borders to work on building projects, most often for Kings and Popes, and these guys whom they supported to build great cathedrals and castles first turned on them and denounced them because of greed and jealousy.

Masonry then became 'speculative' the 'secrecy' became necessary to hide themselves from men who opposed their local bodies which enjoyed the freedom to freely travel across borders.

Now it has come down to our contemporary time and people still oppose the work of speculative masonry for the same reasons.

I find it odd that you claim a Catholic or Mormon may be unsaved. I understand they may not be Christian in the definition of the term, yet how do we know a person is unsaved? What are we discussing, Eternal Salvation or Gospel Timely salvation in repentance and faith in Christ?

See, if it is God who writes his law on the hearts of his people, then our efforts to get them 'saved' is limited to gospel salvation in an experience of time. Our efforts never extend beyond a timely conditional salvation because the only offering possible for any man to obtain eternal life is the body of Christ Jesus. There is no other offering any man can bring, whether it be a work of faith in true knowledge or in weakness and possessing little or even no truth which causes a person to be born again.

I have already shown, but here I will show with the scripture:

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

If we make this salvation to be Eternal Life here in this passage, then we effectively remove Christ from the work of redemption and set that work in the hands of the preacher, this is what Paul is stating here.

First, that Timothy's action will save himself.

Second that Timothy's action will save his hearers.

Now, if this is salvation unto eternal life, then that which is elsewhere called a free gift immediately becomes based upon the work of the preacher first, then the work of the hearer secondary.

This is why I can remain a Baptist and a Mason. I know that it is God upon whom the foundation of eternal life stands and not man.

I have been excluded from the Old Line Primitive Baptists, I continue to serve the Lord in a body of Sovereign Grace Landmark Baptists who know my masonic affiliation and do not oppose it. Though many of the Lord's people have forsaken me because of this timely affiliation, I have not forsaken the Lord for a false religious teaching.

Masonry has no intent of interfering with my preaching what I receive to be truth nor my support of any local body which I may attend or be invited to do that.

It is also odd that many who have personally labored with me on the grounds of Masonry being an evil religious body have also told me they do not oppose the 'good' works of Masonry, in fact, they have assured me they have often given money in support of the work of Shriners. They are without reply when I ask them how they can adamantly oppose something they would financially support?

See? Too many who oppose Masonry speak against masonry out of misunderstanding rather than knowledge of their imagined agenda or goals.

These goals are simply unrelated to political or religious power or concerns.

bro. Dallas

 

[dcorbett]

Appreciate your testimony Sis. However, I have never found anything in Masonry to be intended toward a one world order of either religion or government.

but it includes all faiths that believe in "God" and I put quotes around His name because many doctrinal differences about The Lord God come into play amongst the various religions within the masonic groups.

We do not even speak of religious beliefs beyond a common belief in the Living God who established a Covenant with the House of David to write his law upon the hearts of all his people.

Mormons believe that God is just a man who was elevated, and that good mormon men can be gods of their own worlds.....so they don't believe in
The One True God. Catholics worship the saints as if they are gods, and the pope before the current pope wanted to elevate Mary to the title of co-redemptrix, so how can catholics claim to know the One True LIving God?

Masonry clearly states that it has no intention to separate any man who joins them of his own free will from continuing to support and attend his local church.
What is it the great commission has given us to do? Are we to go into all the world and make sheep?

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

I don't believe the scripture teaches this but instead that we are to preach the gospel to every creature knowing that the sheep are known of Christ. Their belief of the gospel message brings to them gospel salvation, but does not justify them eternally in the sight of God.

I have a musician friend that thinks he can play in bars and witness to
the lost on band breaks. No, no, no, no. His testimony is right out the door, I don't care what he says.

Masons are taught to serve their fellowman regardless of his station in life or religious affiliations or political connections. In some ways it is a manifestation of the Christian spirit, but it in no way seeks to separate men from their conscience to God.

I just don't see the necessity of being part of this group. You can do
service to your fellow man through your own church afflilation!

 

[cemab4y]

SBC and freemasonry

"Should a Baptist be a Mason?????" One word answer.... No.

Why not? The Southern Baptist Convention conducted a year-long study, and concluded that the decision should be left up to the individual man. The SBC did not forbid Masonic membership. The SBC committee spent one year and over $100,000. If they found no problem with Baptist in the Fraternity, what is your objection? Be specific.

see http://watch.pair.com/sbc.html

 

[cemab4y]

glad to answer

but it includes all faiths that believe in "God" and I put quotes around His name because many doctrinal differences about The Lord God come into play amongst the various religions within the masonic groups.


--(from cemab4y) . Only an avowed atheist cannot be made a Mason. Men of many different faith traditions and religious backgrounds participate. It is quite true, that the individual conception of the Deity, varies wildly between different men who are Masons.


Mormons believe that God is just a man who was elevated, and that good mormon men can be gods of their own worlds.....so they don't believe in
The One True God. Catholics worship the saints as if they are gods, and the pope before the current pope wanted to elevate Mary to the title of co-redemptrix, so how can catholics claim to know the One True LIving God?


--Mormons believe many different concepts that are at variance with mainstream Protestant theology. Catholics believe concepts that are also at variance with Protestant theology. That was the reason for the Protestant reformation. I am not a Roman Catholic, and I am not qualified to determine how a Catholic person can conceive of the Deity. That is between the individual man and his conscience.


2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,



I have a musician friend that thinks he can play in bars and witness to
the lost on band breaks. No, no, no, no. His testimony is right out the door, I don't care what he says.

--I believe you. I do not get the connection to Freemasonry.



I just don't see the necessity of being part of this group. You can do
service to your fellow man through your own church afflilation!

If you do not see why a man would want to participate in Freemasonry, that is up to you. Many men enjoy the friendship, the camaraderie, and the opportunity for self-improvement, which is offered by Freemasonry. And if a person can provide humanitarian service through his/her religious affiliation, that is terrific.

"The problems of this world, are too great for any one religion to solve"- Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The purpose Driven life.

 

[Jerome]

The SBC committee spent one year and over $100,000. . . .they found no problem with Baptist in the Fraternity

Huh?

They found no problem?

http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/faqs.asp#19

In its 1993 report, the SBC stated that there were aspects of Freemasonry that are incompatible with Christianity. The main conclusion of the report states:

We conclude that many tenets and teachings of Freemasonry are not compatible with Christianity or Southern Baptist doctrine.

 

[preacher4truth]

I find it of interest that others are told they are misrepresenting Masons, when I am not seeing that happening at all.

Secondly, we are to worship none but Whom folks? Is Scripture not clear enough here? Yet, look at the extent the masons will go to protect the titles they give one another, i.e. "worshipful master" and posts are developed to justify this unscriptural practice.

Then again, we are being told that we should watch we don't misrepresent this? Why is this being protected like one is protecting God's Word? I wish I could say I see the same protection and warnings flying into threads protecting the Word of God being attacked as I see it happening here to protect this practice that is not Biblical. What, are we to protect this teaching because someone who is in it is our friend and holds a position and warn others they had better be careful!? For what specifically? I can understand the warning to never call into question ones salvation, but I can also see the need to call out this masonic teaching that is unscriptural, and if doing this part is wrong, then that is just ridiculous. Sure, mark me and single me out for my post. I have spoken the truth.

 

[glfredrick]

Huh?

They found no problem?

http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/faqs.asp#19

Indeed... The SBC cannot "dictate" to any member what it is that the member does, holds, believes, etc. Does not work that way, so it is no mystery that the "SBC" did not make a blanket statement against individuals who chose to associate with Masonic activities.

For all the "stuff" tossed against the SBC around here, one of the largest errors is that they are a top-down heirarchy that dictates to their members what they need to believe. The SBC is a bottom up congregational entity, where all the power resides in regeneratged believers at the local church level, who then cooperate with others of like faith and practice to accomplish larger tasks.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Towards the end of my parents lives they joined the Masons and Eastern Star.

They also changed. They rarely went to church, all of their spare time was taken up by lodge activities (especially when Mom became the Grand Matron), and they no longer associated with friends and family outside of the lodge.

It consumed them, and then they died. Because of the distance they put between me and the rest of the family before they died, we feel like there was unsettled words or business that was left unfinished. Now we'll never know.

I just can't picture my Dad putting on a robe, kneeling before the "Worshipful Master", bearing his chest and letting the WM put the point of a sword to it, all while my Father vows to let them slit his throat, ect, ect, and burn him up and then scatter his ashes to the four winds...(or some such) if he tells the secrets of the lodge.

It took some brainwashing for my Dad to submit to that, so, no, I have no use for masons.

John

 

[preacher4truth]

Towards the end of my parents lives they joined the Masons and Eastern Star.

They also changed. They rarely went to church, all of their spare time was taken up by lodge activities (especially when Mom became the Grand Matron), and they no longer associated with friends and family outside of the lodge.

It consumed them, and then they died. Because of the distance they put between me and the rest of the family before they died, we feel like there was unsettled words or business that was left unfinished. Now we'll never know.

I just can't picture my Dad putting on a robe, kneeling before the "Worshipful Master", bearing his chest and letting the WM put the point of a sword to it, all while my Father vows to let them slit his throat, ect, ect, and burn him up and then scatter his ashes to the four winds...(or some such) if he tells the secrets of the lodge.

It took some brainwashing for my Dad to submit to that, so, no, I have no use for masons.

John

I am sorry to hear this brother John.

I am glad I came out of this.

You may be interested in this site: http://emfj.org/

- Peace

 

[mandym]

Evidence that Free Masonry is an occult:

"The Masonic Initiate has long been in darkness, and now seeks to be brought to light" (Malcom C. Duncan, Masonic Ritual and Monitor, n.d., p.29)

"Masonry is of divine origin" (J. Blanchard, Scottish Rite Masonry Illustrated)

"Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instructions in religion...reward is the knowledge of the True God...Masonry is a worship...It is the universal, eternal immutable religion, such as God planted it in the heart of universal humanity" (Liturgy of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States, Part Two, pp. 167, 198-99).

"...the Bible, so rich in symbolism, is itself a symbol...It is a sovereign symbol of the Book of Faith, the Will of God as man has learned it in the midst of the years...Thus, by the very honor which Masonry pays to the Bible, it teaches us to revere every book of faith...joining hands with the man of Islam as he takes oath on the Koran, and with the Hindu as he makes covenant with God upon the book that he loves best (Joseph Fort Newton, The Bible in Masonry, p.5)

"The prevailing Masonic opinion is that the Bible is only a symbol of Divine Will, Law, or Revelation, and not that its contents are Divine Law, inspired, or revealed. So far, no responsible authority has held that a Freemason must believe the Bible or any part of it" (Henry Wilson Coil, Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, p. 520)

"The Hebrew books were written only to recall to memory the traditions; and they were written in Symbols unintelligible to the Profane [non-Masons]" (Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, pp. 744-45).

"There he stands without our portals, on the threshold of his new Masonic life, in darkness, helplessness and ignorance. Having been wandering amid the errors and covered over with the pollutions of the outer and profane world, he comes inquiringly to our door, seeking the new birth, and asking a withdrawal of the veil which conceals divine truth from his uninitiated sight." --Albert G. Mackey, Masonic Ritualist, p22-23

"You have entered a new world. Symbolically and spiritually you have been reborn. This started the moment you were prepared to become a Mason... The lodge becomes a symbol of the new world to which you have been reborn... You learn that your entrance is not a mere opening of a door. It is accomplished by forms, ceremonies, actions and words designed to impress upon you mind wise and serious truths. You know that this is not a frivolous event, but one of spiritual impressiveness." --Allen E. Roberts, The Craft and Its symbols, p3, 14-15