I am quite sure the Masons are on a damage control mission.
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Should baptists be part of the free masonry?
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I am quite sure the Masons are on a damage control mission.
convicted1
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I am quite sure the Masons are on a damage control mission.
Well, Apostle Paul wrote about offending weaker Brethern. If this causes division amongst them, they should be willing to leave this organization, don't you think?
Well, Apostle Paul wrote about offending weaker Brethern. If this causes division amongst them, they should be willing to leave this organization, don't you think?
The church should address it scripturally guided by Matt 18:15-18
convicted1
Guest
The church should address it scripturally guided by Matt 18:15-18
AMEN!! An accord!! Hallelujah!!
An explanation
Quote:
"God, the Supreme Father, has two sons, the elder Satanael, the younger Jesus. To Satanael, who sat on the right hand of God, belonged the right of governing the celestial world, but filled with pride, he rebelled against his Father and fell from Heaven. Then, aided by the companions of his fall, he created the visible world, image of the celestial, having like the other its sun, moon, and stars, and last he created man and the serpent which became his minister. Later Christ came to earth in order to show men the way to Heaven, but His death was ineffectual, for even by descending into Hell He could not wrest the power from Satanael, i.e., Satan. This belief in the impotence of Christ and the necessity therefore for placating Satan, not only "the Prince of this world," but its creator, led to the further doctrine that Satan, being all-powerful, should be adored ((Morals and Dogma, 63). "
How do Masons explain this?
-------------------------
First let us understand, that I am only one man. I do not speak for any Masonic body, even my own lodge. I am, however a student of Freemasonry, having spent 29 years in the Craft, and I have read extensively on the subject.
It is important for any student of Freemasonry, either a Mason, or someone opposed to Freemasonry, that Albert Pike does not speak for Freemasonry. He never did, and he never will. Albert Pike was a 'self-educated' man, similar to Abraham Lincoln. He taught himself Hebrew and Sanskrit, and other subjects including law and philosophy. He practiced law, even though he never attended a law school, nor was he admitted to the bar. (similar to Lincoln). He never attended any military school, but he served in the Confederate army as a general. In fact ,he is the only Confederate general officer, to be buried in Washington DC.
He wrote extensively, and his "magnum opus" is "Morals and Dogma". Actually this is an abbreviated title. The complete title is: "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry". The book is an attempt to codify and explain some Masonic philosophy, most especially Pike's own interpretations.
The most important page in the entire book, is (in my opinion) the introductory page, where Pike clearly states, that the contents of the book are his own opinions, and anyone is free to agree or disagree. Furthermore, the book was never accepted as official policy by the Scottish Rite, nor any Masonic organization, anywhere.
Certainly, Pike had some ideas that were influenced by Satanism, and luciferianism. No doubt. But his concepts of "lucifer" as the "Light-bearer" are certainly not satanic.
All I can say is: Read the book at your own discretion. DO NOT apply any of Pike's beliefs to Freemasonry. Pike never did! No Masonic organization ever accepted the book as official. So if a person who is opposed to Freemasonry adopts the text, he is going off in a direction, without merit.
How do Masons explain this?
Quote:
"God, the Supreme Father, has two sons, the elder Satanael, the younger Jesus. To Satanael, who sat on the right hand of God, belonged the right of governing the celestial world, but filled with pride, he rebelled against his Father and fell from Heaven. Then, aided by the companions of his fall, he created the visible world, image of the celestial, having like the other its sun, moon, and stars, and last he created man and the serpent which became his minister. Later Christ came to earth in order to show men the way to Heaven, but His death was ineffectual, for even by descending into Hell He could not wrest the power from Satanael, i.e., Satan. This belief in the impotence of Christ and the necessity therefore for placating Satan, not only "the Prince of this world," but its creator, led to the further doctrine that Satan, being all-powerful, should be adored ((Morals and Dogma, 63). "
How do Masons explain this?
-------------------------
First let us understand, that I am only one man. I do not speak for any Masonic body, even my own lodge. I am, however a student of Freemasonry, having spent 29 years in the Craft, and I have read extensively on the subject.
It is important for any student of Freemasonry, either a Mason, or someone opposed to Freemasonry, that Albert Pike does not speak for Freemasonry. He never did, and he never will. Albert Pike was a 'self-educated' man, similar to Abraham Lincoln. He taught himself Hebrew and Sanskrit, and other subjects including law and philosophy. He practiced law, even though he never attended a law school, nor was he admitted to the bar. (similar to Lincoln). He never attended any military school, but he served in the Confederate army as a general. In fact ,he is the only Confederate general officer, to be buried in Washington DC.
He wrote extensively, and his "magnum opus" is "Morals and Dogma". Actually this is an abbreviated title. The complete title is: "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry". The book is an attempt to codify and explain some Masonic philosophy, most especially Pike's own interpretations.
The most important page in the entire book, is (in my opinion) the introductory page, where Pike clearly states, that the contents of the book are his own opinions, and anyone is free to agree or disagree. Furthermore, the book was never accepted as official policy by the Scottish Rite, nor any Masonic organization, anywhere.
Certainly, Pike had some ideas that were influenced by Satanism, and luciferianism. No doubt. But his concepts of "lucifer" as the "Light-bearer" are certainly not satanic.
All I can say is: Read the book at your own discretion. DO NOT apply any of Pike's beliefs to Freemasonry. Pike never did! No Masonic organization ever accepted the book as official. So if a person who is opposed to Freemasonry adopts the text, he is going off in a direction, without merit.
The Main library of the Supreme council 33 degrees is dedicated to Albert Pike and the following words, referencing him, are posted in bronze on the wall:
"He has lived. The fruits of his labors live after him. - Albert Pike, 33° "
In this library they keep Pike's personal collection of books.
In the atrium there is a bust of Pike.
So let's not pretend Pike is not held in high esteem and looked up to among free masons.
"He has lived. The fruits of his labors live after him. - Albert Pike, 33° "
In this library they keep Pike's personal collection of books.
In the atrium there is a bust of Pike.
So let's not pretend Pike is not held in high esteem and looked up to among free masons.
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Clarifications
Then worship your God in the manner you see fit, and according to the dictates of your conscience. And give others the same right.
It appears you are heavily biased by your experiences and relationships in the Masons, rather than by Scriptural Truth. This seems to be a very dangerous position on which to base your conclusions.
==(from cemab4y) I admit wholeheartedly, that my understanding of Freemasonry is heavily influenced by my personal relationships and experiences. I am a Mason, My late father was a Mason. Both of my Grandfathers were Masons. My great-uncle was a 33rd. My best friend, a retired Baptist minister is a Knight Cross Court of Honor Mason, and a Knight York Cross court of honor Mason. Some of the finest men I have ever known are (or were) Freemasons. I have been a Mason for 29 years, and I have visited lodges in 13 states, Washington DC, and five foreign countries.
I have also studied the Holy Bible for over 5 decades. I have completed college-level courses in New Testament and old testament literature. I have studied comparative religions, including Islam and Buddhism. I have found no conflict between Freemasonry, and the truths that are promulgated in religious texts, including the Holy Bible and the Holy Qu'Ran.
You should believe that God gave you spiritual life and love for God, which is a greater gift than your physical life. God may have used an ungodly organization like the Masons to accomplish his work in your physical life, just like God uses greedy hospitals, bent on profits, to accomplish Gods work, but the thanksgiving should only go to God, not the greedy hospital, and not to a man-centered humanistic organization.
==I have no problem with any man believing that his spiritual life comes from the same Creator, which designed his physical life. But where do you get off calling Freemasonry "ungodly"? The fact is you are quite correct in defining Freemasonry as a secular, man-made organization, which in fact, it is. Masonry makes no claim of divine origination, and bends over backwards to proclaim that it is not a religion.
You are quite correct in labeling Freemasonry as "man-centered", which is exactly what it is. Freemasonry was created by men, for men. It is a brotherhood of men, under the fatherhood of God.
The medical programs sponsored by Freemasons, and masonically-affiliated organizations (like the Shrine hospitals, and the Scottish Rite hospitals), are operated as free charitable institutions. No one is ever charged for treatment in a Shriner's hospital, and insurance is not accepted.
Freemasonry is a place, where men from many different religious backgrounds and faith traditions can meet as brothers and equals. And our charitable and humanitarian efforts continue to relieve human suffering, and work for the benefit of all mankind. I feel that our medical research, and our free hospital programs, are in the finest traditions of religious work, extending all the way back to the Nazarene, who restored sight to the blind, cured the lepers, and caused the crippled to walk again.
Please pray and meditate on this:
2 Corinthians 10:5
5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ
Why would any Christian even remotely want to involve themselves in organizations that raise themselves up against Christ?
==How could any reasonable man, consider that Masonic organizations raise themselves up against any religious philosopher?
- Secrets
==There are no secrets in Freemasonry. All of the policies, philosophies and goals of the organization(s), are clearly broadcast to all the world. We even hire publicists, and hold open houses, and publish books and pamphlets so that anyone can learn everything there is to know about Freemasonry. The only secret in Freemasonry, is that there are no secrets.
- Oaths
==This has been covered extensively. I swore an oath when I enlisted in the Air Force, when I went to work for the federal government, when I gave testimony in court, and when I pay my taxes. I swore an oath when I joined Freemasonry. I cherish those oaths. Anyone who has a problem with swearing oaths, should not join the military, should not go to work for the federal government, should never give witness in court, and should not pay their taxes. My wife swore an oath when she became a citizen of the USA, she is a Christian. Should she repudiate that oath, and return to Russia? And I swore solemn vows(oaths) when I married her. Should I renounce those vows as "un-Christian" and divorce her?
- Calling positions "Worshipful Master" !!!
==Again, covered extensively. The title "worshipful" is an honorific. It is taken from the old English "worchyppe", and translates into modern-day English as "honorable". You can read a Wycliffe Bible, and the commandment reads "Worchyppe thy fathir and thy mothir". In England and Canada today, judges are addressed as "your worship".
And "master" is an honorific title, which translates as "President" or "presiding officer". In the USA Merchant Marine, the commander of a ship is referred to as the "master" of the ship.
So "worshipful Master" translates to "Honorable President". Get real .
- Reports of demonic activity at higher levels that must be kept secret
==What is this crud? I am a 32d degree Mason. There is no "demonic"activity at any higher level. You are bordering on slander here.
If you can't see how this is blasphemous to God, you have serious error in your thinking and need to re-visit your conclusions.
==If you CAN see, how friendship, morality, brotherly love, truth, ethics, rectitude of conduct, tolerance, and relief to the poor, the sick, the widow, and the orphan, is "blasphemous", please give me a toke on whatever it is you are smoking.
The Lord is our ONLY Master and jealous for our worship.
Deuteronomy 4:24
English Standard Version (ESV)
24For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
Then worship your God in the manner you see fit, and according to the dictates of your conscience. And give others the same right.
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"Morals and Dogma" is given to those who reach the 32nd level.
Prove it. Not being mean or sarcastic, I would just like to see your proof.
Clarifications
Then worship your God in the manner you see fit, and according to the dictates of your conscience. And give others the same right.
It appears you are heavily biased by your experiences and relationships in the Masons, rather than by Scriptural Truth. This seems to be a very dangerous position on which to base your conclusions.
==(from cemab4y) I admit wholeheartedly, that my understanding of Freemasonry is heavily influenced by my personal relationships and experiences. I am a Mason, My late father was a Mason. Both of my Grandfathers were Masons. My great-uncle was a 33rd. My best friend, a retired Baptist minister is a Knight Cross Court of Honor Mason, and a Knight York Cross court of honor Mason. Some of the finest men I have ever known are (or were) Freemasons. I have been a Mason for 29 years, and I have visited lodges in 13 states, Washington DC, and five foreign countries.
I have also studied the Holy Bible for over 5 decades. I have completed college-level courses in New Testament and old testament literature. I have studied comparative religions, including Islam and Buddhism. I have found no conflict between Freemasonry, and the truths that are promulgated in religious texts, including the Holy Bible and the Holy Qu'Ran.
You should believe that God gave you spiritual life and love for God, which is a greater gift than your physical life. God may have used an ungodly organization like the Masons to accomplish his work in your physical life, just like God uses greedy hospitals, bent on profits, to accomplish Gods work, but the thanksgiving should only go to God, not the greedy hospital, and not to a man-centered humanistic organization.
==I have no problem with any man believing that his spiritual life comes from the same Creator, which designed his physical life. But where do you get off calling Freemasonry "ungodly"? The fact is you are quite correct in defining Freemasonry as a secular, man-made organization, which in fact, it is. Masonry makes no claim of divine origination, and bends over backwards to proclaim that it is not a religion.
You are quite correct in labeling Freemasonry as "man-centered", which is exactly what it is. Freemasonry was created by men, for men. It is a brotherhood of men, under the fatherhood of God.
The medical programs sponsored by Freemasons, and masonically-affiliated organizations (like the Shrine hospitals, and the Scottish Rite hospitals), are operated as free charitable institutions. No one is ever charged for treatment in a Shriner's hospital, and insurance is not accepted.
Freemasonry is a place, where men from many different religious backgrounds and faith traditions can meet as brothers and equals. And our charitable and humanitarian efforts continue to relieve human suffering, and work for the benefit of all mankind. I feel that our medical research, and our free hospital programs, are in the finest traditions of religious work, extending all the way back to the Nazarene, who restored sight to the blind, cured the lepers, and caused the crippled to walk again.
Please pray and meditate on this:
2 Corinthians 10:5
5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ
Why would any Christian even remotely want to involve themselves in organizations that raise themselves up against Christ?
==How could any reasonable man, consider that Masonic organizations raise themselves up against any religious philosopher?
- Secrets
==There are no secrets in Freemasonry. All of the policies, philosophies and goals of the organization(s), are clearly broadcast to all the world. We even hire publicists, and hold open houses, and publish books and pamphlets so that anyone can learn everything there is to know about Freemasonry. The only secret in Freemasonry, is that there are no secrets.
- Oaths
==This has been covered extensively. I swore an oath when I enlisted in the Air Force, when I went to work for the federal government, when I gave testimony in court, and when I pay my taxes. I swore an oath when I joined Freemasonry. I cherish those oaths. Anyone who has a problem with swearing oaths, should not join the military, should not go to work for the federal government, should never give witness in court, and should not pay their taxes. My wife swore an oath when she became a citizen of the USA, she is a Christian. Should she repudiate that oath, and return to Russia? And I swore solemn vows(oaths) when I married her. Should I renounce those vows as "un-Christian" and divorce her?
- Calling positions "Worshipful Master" !!!
==Again, covered extensively. The title "worshipful" is an honorific. It is taken from the old English "worchyppe", and translates into modern-day English as "honorable". You can read a Wycliffe Bible, and the commandment reads "Worchyppe thy fathir and thy mothir". In England and Canada today, judges are addressed as "your worship".
And "master" is an honorific title, which translates as "President" or "presiding officer". In the USA Merchant Marine, the commander of a ship is referred to as the "master" of the ship.
So "worshipful Master" translates to "Honorable President". Get real .
- Reports of demonic activity at higher levels that must be kept secret
==What is this crud? I am a 32d degree Mason. There is no "demonic"activity at any higher level. You are bordering on slander here.
If you can't see how this is blasphemous to God, you have serious error in your thinking and need to re-visit your conclusions.
==If you CAN see, how friendship, morality, brotherly love, truth, ethics, rectitude of conduct, tolerance, and relief to the poor, the sick, the widow, and the orphan, is "blasphemous", please give me a toke on whatever it is you are smoking.
The Lord is our ONLY Master and jealous for our worship.
Deuteronomy 4:24
English Standard Version (ESV)
24For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
Then worship your God in the manner you see fit, and according to the dictates of your conscience. And give others the same right.
There are lodges named after Albert Pike
http://lodge.albertpikedemolay.org/
http://albertpikelodge303.org/
http://www.albertpike117.com/
http://www.albertpike33.org/
http://lodge.albertpikedemolay.org/
http://albertpikelodge303.org/
http://www.albertpike117.com/
http://www.albertpike33.org/
The EA oath
==I posted it twice. I verify that the oath I posted is the "real deal". I even provided the URL. You can also buy "Duncan's Ritual", and "Look to the East!" from Amazon.com and read it there.
You admit that the copies I find online may leave off words and attempt to make it read differently.
(from cemab4y) I have posted the EA oath twice. It is complete, without errors, omissions, or deletions or additions. How many times do you need it? It is exactly the oath that I took in 1982, when I took the EA oath. I have seen in administered many times.
This can be easily remedied. Simply post the oath in its fullness for us to read and consider. For one that claims there are no secrets in Masonry, you sure seem to be holding the oath secret.
I'm ready and willing to approach the oath with an open mind and fairness. I simply need you to post it and verify its accuracy so that I can be sure I am considering the full and proper oath.
==I posted it twice. I verify that the oath I posted is the "real deal". I even provided the URL. You can also buy "Duncan's Ritual", and "Look to the East!" from Amazon.com and read it there.
Let's talk
(from cemab4y): I will talk your ears right off about Masonry. I will reveal everything, and withhold nothing. I will answer every question to the best of my ability, and if I do not know the answer, I will direct you a reputable source. There are over 100 (one hundred) appendant and concordant bodies and organizations affiliated with Freemasonry, and I am not an expert on all of them! Some of the appendants are very well-known, like the Shriners. Some are very obscure, like the Royal Order of Quetzlcoatl.
Masonry is founded on truth, rectitude of conduct, and morality. I am an honest man, and I am proud to be associated with Freemasonry. My only regret is that I did not join earlier (I was 28).
If you have a question, then fire away!
It's evident to me that you are trying to hide something. Someone with nothing to hide doesn't talk so much about nothing. I'm done here, I think you've proven the point that Masonry is not something any honest person (Christian or not) should be involved in.
(from cemab4y): I will talk your ears right off about Masonry. I will reveal everything, and withhold nothing. I will answer every question to the best of my ability, and if I do not know the answer, I will direct you a reputable source. There are over 100 (one hundred) appendant and concordant bodies and organizations affiliated with Freemasonry, and I am not an expert on all of them! Some of the appendants are very well-known, like the Shriners. Some are very obscure, like the Royal Order of Quetzlcoatl.
Masonry is founded on truth, rectitude of conduct, and morality. I am an honest man, and I am proud to be associated with Freemasonry. My only regret is that I did not join earlier (I was 28).
If you have a question, then fire away!
Albert Pike, one of my favorite Freemasons
I live in suburban Washington DC. I have been to the House of the Temple many times, I am a Scottish Rite Mason (32d degree, Alexandria VA Scottish Rite bodies).
Albert Pike is one of my favorite Freemasons. He is indeed held in high esteem, and "looked up" to by Freemasons. Especially by the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction.
The Main library of the Supreme council 33 degrees is dedicated to Albert Pike and the following words, referencing him, are posted in bronze on the wall:
"He has lived. The fruits of his labors live after him. - Albert Pike, 33° "
In this library they keep Pike's personal collection of books.
In the atrium there is a bust of Pike.
So let's not pretend Pike is not held in high esteem and looked up to among free masons.
I live in suburban Washington DC. I have been to the House of the Temple many times, I am a Scottish Rite Mason (32d degree, Alexandria VA Scottish Rite bodies).
Albert Pike is one of my favorite Freemasons. He is indeed held in high esteem, and "looked up" to by Freemasons. Especially by the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction.
No it is not
I took the Scottish Rite degrees (4th through 32d) in Alexandria, VA in 1988. I was not given a copy of "Morals and Dogma". As part of my initiation fee, I was presented with a copy of "Clausen's Commentaries on Morals and Dogma", by Henry Clausen. see http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O8671E/?tag=baptis04-20
I have attended many Scottish Rite "reunions" (where the Scottish Rite degrees are conferred), in the intervening years, and I have NEVER seen any newly made 32d degree Mason be presented with "Morals and Dogma". The book has been out of print for over half a century, and copies are rare.
Your statement is false.
'"Morals and Dogma" is given to those who reach the 32nd level.
I took the Scottish Rite degrees (4th through 32d) in Alexandria, VA in 1988. I was not given a copy of "Morals and Dogma". As part of my initiation fee, I was presented with a copy of "Clausen's Commentaries on Morals and Dogma", by Henry Clausen. see http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O8671E/?tag=baptis04-20
I have attended many Scottish Rite "reunions" (where the Scottish Rite degrees are conferred), in the intervening years, and I have NEVER seen any newly made 32d degree Mason be presented with "Morals and Dogma". The book has been out of print for over half a century, and copies are rare.
Your statement is false.
more clarification
In speaking of the "symbolic" blood oaths that Masons take Albert Pike said the following:
==The statements here, relate to symbolism, not the oaths. The oaths are real, and meant to be taken seriously. Only the penalty phase is "symbolic", and the penalty is meant to impress upon the candidate the seriousness of the undertaking.
Quote:
"Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819)
==Again, this is Pike's personal interpretation. (He is wrong, by the way). The "symbols" described here, are the symbols used in Masonic instruction. And, again he is wrong. In the introductory page of M&D, Pike states clearly that anyone is free to disagree with his(Pike's) interpretations and opinions. I disagree with this statement.
"There must always be a commonplace interpretation for the mass of initiates, of the symbols that are eloquent to the Adepts." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819) [The "Adept" are Thirty-Third Degree and above.]
==All of the symbolism in Masonry is clearly explained to the new Mason, and all Masons are encouraged to continue with their studies of Masonic symbolism.
You do not have a proper understanding of the word 'adept'. In Masonic parlance, an 'adept' is a person who is knowledgeable about Freemasonry. It has no bearing on his degree completion.
And you do not understand about the 33rd degree. The 33rd degree is an "honorary" degree, awarded to less than 1% of Scottish Rite Masons. It is given in recognition of service to the Scottish Rite, and/or service to Craft Masonry. It has no "currency", or particular instructive value. It is like an honorary Ph.D. degree proferred by a university to a celebrity.
In speaking of the "symbolic" blood oaths that Masons take Albert Pike said the following:
In speaking of the "symbolic" blood oaths that Masons take Albert Pike said the following:
==The statements here, relate to symbolism, not the oaths. The oaths are real, and meant to be taken seriously. Only the penalty phase is "symbolic", and the penalty is meant to impress upon the candidate the seriousness of the undertaking.
Quote:
"Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819)
==Again, this is Pike's personal interpretation. (He is wrong, by the way). The "symbols" described here, are the symbols used in Masonic instruction. And, again he is wrong. In the introductory page of M&D, Pike states clearly that anyone is free to disagree with his(Pike's) interpretations and opinions. I disagree with this statement.
"There must always be a commonplace interpretation for the mass of initiates, of the symbols that are eloquent to the Adepts." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819) [The "Adept" are Thirty-Third Degree and above.]
==All of the symbolism in Masonry is clearly explained to the new Mason, and all Masons are encouraged to continue with their studies of Masonic symbolism.
You do not have a proper understanding of the word 'adept'. In Masonic parlance, an 'adept' is a person who is knowledgeable about Freemasonry. It has no bearing on his degree completion.
And you do not understand about the 33rd degree. The 33rd degree is an "honorary" degree, awarded to less than 1% of Scottish Rite Masons. It is given in recognition of service to the Scottish Rite, and/or service to Craft Masonry. It has no "currency", or particular instructive value. It is like an honorary Ph.D. degree proferred by a university to a celebrity.
This is a hoax
On 14 July, 1889 Albert Pike issued his instructions to the twenty-three Supreme Councils of the world, recorded by A.C. De La Rive in Za Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerle Universelle (page 588). The following is a brief excerpt from his speech.
"That which we must say to the crowd is — We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition."
"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees — The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferic doctrine." (Ibid., 220).
==============
==The quote you cite here is a hoax perpretrated by a notorious plagiarist and pornographer, who wrote this document, under the pen name of Leo Taxil.
This hoax continues to be perpretrated on anti-masonic sites.
If you want the documented historical background of this hoax, please see the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax
--
Masonry is in no way a religion. It was found not to be a religion, by the Supreme Court of the state of Nebraska in the case of Lawrence v. Scottish Rite Building, 1922.
Masonry is a religion that should be avoided.
On 14 July, 1889 Albert Pike issued his instructions to the twenty-three Supreme Councils of the world, recorded by A.C. De La Rive in Za Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerle Universelle (page 588). The following is a brief excerpt from his speech.
"That which we must say to the crowd is — We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition."
"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees — The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferic doctrine." (Ibid., 220).
==============
==The quote you cite here is a hoax perpretrated by a notorious plagiarist and pornographer, who wrote this document, under the pen name of Leo Taxil.
This hoax continues to be perpretrated on anti-masonic sites.
If you want the documented historical background of this hoax, please see the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax
--
Masonry is in no way a religion. It was found not to be a religion, by the Supreme Court of the state of Nebraska in the case of Lawrence v. Scottish Rite Building, 1922.
Well, Apostle Paul wrote about offending weaker Brethern. If this causes division amongst them, they should be willing to leave this organization, don't you think?
There is no offense among the Brethren in the churches on this question. I myself have been excluded from an OL PB body because I would not leave masonry. I accepted their local autonomous act of discipline and now serve the Lord where there is no acceptance of hateful superstition as truth.
bro. Dallas
Quote:
"God, the Supreme Father, has two sons, the elder Satanael, the younger Jesus. To Satanael, who sat on the right hand of God, belonged the right of governing the celestial world, but filled with pride, he rebelled against his Father and fell from Heaven. Then, aided by the companions of his fall, he created the visible world, image of the celestial, having like the other its sun, moon, and stars, and last he created man and the serpent which became his minister. Later Christ came to earth in order to show men the way to Heaven, but His death was ineffectual, for even by descending into Hell He could not wrest the power from Satanael, i.e., Satan. This belief in the impotence of Christ and the necessity therefore for placating Satan, not only "the Prince of this world," but its creator, led to the further doctrine that Satan, being all-powerful, should be adored ((Morals and Dogma, 63). "
How do Masons explain this?
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First let us understand, that I am only one man. I do not speak for any Masonic body, even my own lodge. I am, however a student of Freemasonry, having spent 29 years in the Craft, and I have read extensively on the subject.
It is important for any student of Freemasonry, either a Mason, or someone opposed to Freemasonry, that Albert Pike does not speak for Freemasonry. He never did, and he never will. Albert Pike was a 'self-educated' man, similar to Abraham Lincoln. He taught himself Hebrew and Sanskrit, and other subjects including law and philosophy. He practiced law, even though he never attended a law school, nor was he admitted to the bar. (similar to Lincoln). He never attended any military school, but he served in the Confederate army as a general. In fact ,he is the only Confederate general officer, to be buried in Washington DC.
He wrote extensively, and his "magnum opus" is "Morals and Dogma". Actually this is an abbreviated title. The complete title is: "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry". The book is an attempt to codify and explain some Masonic philosophy, most especially Pike's own interpretations.
The most important page in the entire book, is (in my opinion) the introductory page, where Pike clearly states, that the contents of the book are his own opinions, and anyone is free to agree or disagree. Furthermore, the book was never accepted as official policy by the Scottish Rite, nor any Masonic organization, anywhere.
Certainly, Pike had some ideas that were influenced by Satanism, and luciferianism. No doubt. But his concepts of "lucifer" as the "Light-bearer" are certainly not satanic.
All I can say is: Read the book at your own discretion. DO NOT apply any of Pike's beliefs to Freemasonry. Pike never did! No Masonic organization ever accepted the book as official. So if a person who is opposed to Freemasonry adopts the text, he is going off in a direction, without merit.
AMEN Brother cemab4y. I found the introductory pages to this work last night and read it for the first time and it struck me as odd that those who oppose masonry by pulling from Pike's work here always are careful to NOT include his prefatory remarks in which remarks the author of any work always gives his reason for writing and will as in Pike's case state that his work can be taken or left among its readers. No where have I ever seen this work of Pike to be supposed a definitive 'bible' for masons or masonry.
Thank you for your excellent posting on this subject.
May God Bless,
bro. Dallas
"Morals and Dogma" is given to those who reach the 32nd level.
Morals and Dogma is in the Public domain and is not with held from the view of any whether mason or non mason nor in regards to any degree.
You continually amaze me in the degree you will present opinion as unadulterated truth.
Masonry is declared in the opening pages of Pike's book to not be a religion nor an attempt to oppose any particular church or religious belief of any person. The purpose of gathering has been shown that there is no intent to 'be' a religious body, therefore masonry requires only a belief in God as such that the Everlasting Covenant of God states that HE will write His laws upon the hearts of his people, masonry has no argument with which any person receives this Law of God as written on their hearts to be manifested in a timely experience of faith and practice.
Otherwise the works that have been presented to you as true Masonic works already shown in this thread would by no measure be able to be accomplished because just like the people of God rather than coming together for the purpose of support of these efforts to be of service to our fellowman according to the principles of pure religion, we would be arguing amongst ourselves at every meeting and nothing would be accomplished as to the true purpose and intent of Masonry.
bro. Dallas
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