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Should baptists be part of the free masonry?

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cemab4y

New Member
more info

His name is Charles E. Martin, and he has been here for a while, since "06" according to his join date.

My name is Charles E. Martin. I have been on this board for many years.



As of now he has only posted 8 posts and he gives his name in one of the very old ones.
I know this guy from CARM forums (another Christian site like this one)and he is a die hard Mason.


I am indeed a Mason. I am a 3rd degree Master Mason, and I have completed the 32d degree of the Scottish Rite. I am a Shriner (inactive).



You can find him under the cult section at CARM.

This is not correct. You may NOT find me under the "cult" section. Freemasonry is listed under the "cult" section on CARM. Just because Freemasonry is there, does not mean that I am listed there!



One thing I have noticed about him, He is dedicated and the more you speak out against the lodge the more he speaks out for it.


Absolutely. The only response to incorrect speech, is correct speech. There are many misconceptions and falsehoods floating around about Freemasonry.

As for me personally, I once was a mason, but since left. I will say this for it, If a person is not going to become a Christian, then masonry is a good alternative. I mean if one is not going to come to Christ then we would want our fellow citizens to live a good moral life style before they die and go to hell. That's not saying just because one is a mason they are lost, as even many "so called Christians" will split hell wide open, but who knows, they might actually read the Bible they take an oath on and get saved.

What got me out was the oaths, and Charles may remember me when I say this. If one takes a death oath to kill someone for revealing secretes (which they do), that would make him a murderer and if he takes the oath with no real intentions of going through with carrying the oath out, that makes him a liar.

This is some twisted logic. No Mason ever takes an oath, symbolic or otherwise to "kill someone". This never happens. The Masonic oath states that the Mason will suffer the symbolic penalty. I have been a Mason for 29 years, and I have never taken an oath to "kill" anyone. Your point is totally flawed.

You are pushing a "non sequitir" , like saying "A dog has four legs, and a table has four legs, therefore dog is a table".





Of which neither inherit the kingdom of God.
My question to any mason is, Where does the Bible teach the believer to murder, lie, or take a death oath?

The answer to this is never. I have studied the Bible for many decades, and read it through. No "believer" is ever enjoined to do any of these. Furthermore, none of these activities have any application with respect to Freemasonry.

Freemasonry teaches Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth. No mason is taught to "murder" anyone. No Mason is taught to lie, No Mason is taught to take a "death oath". The penalties in Freemasonry, are symbolic only, and never invoked. Your statement is therefore, moot.





So should any Christian be involved with the Masons or other lodges? My answer to me is, NO!


I do not follow your reasoning. Your claims (lying, murdering, death oaths) are meaningless, and moot. Therefore your question has no validity.

Is there anything in Christian teaching, that specifically enjoins Christians from being Freemasons? I have not seen it. If you have some specific Scripture, or other Christian teaching that forbids Freemasonry, I would like to see it.
 

mandym

New Member
"God, the Supreme Father, has two sons, the elder Satanael, the younger Jesus. To Satanael, who sat on the right hand of God, belonged the right of governing the celestial world, but filled with pride, he rebelled against his Father and fell from Heaven. Then, aided by the companions of his fall, he created the visible world, image of the celestial, having like the other its sun, moon, and stars, and last he created man and the serpent which became his minister. Later Christ came to earth in order to show men the way to Heaven, but His death was ineffectual, for even by descending into Hell He could not wrest the power from Satanael, i.e., Satan. This belief in the impotence of Christ and the necessity therefore for placating Satan, not only "the Prince of this world," but its creator, led to the further doctrine that Satan, being all-powerful, should be adored ((Morals and Dogma, 63). "
On 14 July, 1889 Albert Pike issued his instructions to the twenty-three Supreme Councils of the world, recorded by A.C. De La Rive in Za Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerle Universelle (page 588). The following is a brief excerpt from his speech.

"That which we must say to the crowd is — We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition."

"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees — The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferic doctrine." (Ibid., 220).

Masonry is a religion that should be avoided.
 

cemab4y

New Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I take it you are in support of Masonry. Yes?

I Charles E. Martin, am very much in support of Freemasonry. Absolutely.

As for the plucking out of the offending eye, cutting off of offending hand/foot, I do take that literal. My question is, where is the murdering and lying?

Too, If you read a little farther down Jesus addresses oaths as well. He says, let your communications be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh evil.

== You are reading something that is not there. Christians swear oaths all the time, and there is no specific Biblical injunction against swearing oaths.

-I swore an oath, when I enlisted in the Air Force.

-I swore an oath, when I went to work for the US Government as a civilian.

-I swore an oath, when I gave testimony in court.

-I swear a (civil) oath, every time, I fill out my federal income taxes (under penalty of perjury).

-My wife swore an oath, when she was naturalized a US Citizen.

The statements of Jesus, do not preclude Christians from swearing oaths, the lesson is that people should not swear falsely (commit perjury), and all of our communications should be truthful.





The blood oaths taken by masons end in murder.
This is so utterly false, that you should be ashamed of speaking it. The penalties are SYMBOLIC only, and never invoked. Shame on you.





Do tell where we Christians are told to murder our fellow believers because they told something that was going on in the church house?




I would like to see this as well! Christian doctors are entrusted with medical secrets about their patients. If they disclose confidential information, unlawfully, they are subject to criminal prosecution, and losing their medical license! BTW- Doctors swear the Hippocratic oath.

Christian Lawyers can be prosecuted for unlawfully disclosing confidential information, and they can be disbarred. BTW- Lawyers swear an oath, when they are admitted to the bar.


 

cemab4y

New Member
Clarification

So, what I am getting from this post is that you are ok with someone swearing to kill someone else, as long as the others turn him in?

( I was at Leatherneck in August, I am at Kabul Airport now)

Come on. You are not getting it at all.

There is no "murder" in Freemasonry. That is absurd beyond belief. No one is going to join a club, that would risk getting a life sentence. Ridiculous beyond belief. No one swears to kill anyone. Look up the oaths on the internet! I posted the Entered Apprentice oath.

If a Freemason commits a misdemeanor or a felony, he should turn himself in. (this is not in the oath). Freemasonry teaches rectitude of conduct, and morality. If a Freemason knows of another Freemason, who has committed a crime, he should immediately turn that person in to law enforcement.





BTW: You took an oath when you enlisted. (So did I). How do you reconcile your oath of enlistment, with the (alleged) Biblical injuction against swearing oaths?
 

cemab4y

New Member
clarification

Kinda sounds like it, huh?


I do not think we, as CHRISTians, should do anything that is done in secret. In a funeral of a mason, there are parts of their ceremony that any and all can witness. And then there's another part that no one outside of masons, that can witness.......seems kinda creepy, if ya ask me....

Really? I worked with highly classified material, when I was in the Air Force. All my work was done in secret, because of national security. The Coca-Cola company keeps the formula for their soda pop a secret, even from the federal government.

The Masonic funeral is held openly, for all to see. None of it is withheld from the public.

Lodge meetings are closed to members only. Just like the board meetings of the Ford Motor Company are closed to the board members. So What?



 

cemab4y

New Member
more

You either don't understand or you don't want to understand, I think the latter.

The point is, You take an oath to kill someone, whether you actually do it or not is irrelevant, but it is because you DO NOT carry out the SWORN oath, that makes you a liar. In other words you went into an oath with no intentions of keeping it from the beginning.

Quit thumping that tub. NO ONE takes an oath to kill anyone. So your premise is false. Only the individual whose hands are on the Bible, takes the oath. The oaths are readily visible on the internet. There is nothing about killing anyone.

The duties set forth in the oath, are very numerous and weighty, but none of them will ever conflict with the duties that the Mason owes to his Neighbor, his God, his family, his country, or himself.

I took the (multiple) Masonic oaths, with every intention of keeping them in letter and in spirit. I have been a Mason for 29 years, and I have done so.

SO MOTE IT BE!


 

cemab4y

New Member
Good questions

Many are focusing on the oaths and that is fine as I do agree with them, but I have a different question. Let's say that a lost person enters the lodge for acceptance.

What do you mean by "lost"?



They have to accept a supreme being no matter who or what they call him according to be received.

A candidate for Freemasonry, must already believe in the Supreme Being, prior to even petitioning (applying for) Freemasonry. NO atheist can be made a Mason.




Would you agree that during the ceremony and the statements and claims made by the person called the “most worshipful master” and the head “Deacon” that the person could easily end up thinking they have been accepted by God because for their deeds?

The language and titles used in Freemasonry, are taken from Old English, and could conceivably cause confusion. The presiding officer of a lodge is called the "Worshipful Master". This does not mean he is "worshipped", the term is only a title of respect. There are two deacons, Junior and Senior. Their duties are ceremonial, and must not be confused with "deacons" in a church.

Masonry is NOT concerned with the individual Mason's "acceptance" by the Deity. This is a concern for the individual's religion, and Masonry is not a religion.









In other words because of the ritual they go through and the words spoken in the ritual they are taught a works type salvation (them being accepted by God) even though salvation is not mentioned.


--Way off base, mister. NOTHING in Masonry teaches a "salvation" works-based or otherwise. You will not find salvation in a Masonic lodge, it is not there! If anyone seeks salvation in our Fraternity, they will be disappointed and come up empty-handed. Not there.

You are quite correct, that 'salvation' is not mentioned. And for a very good reason, it is not there.
 

Baptist4life

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"God, the Supreme Father, has two sons, the elder Satanael, the younger Jesus. To Satanael, who sat on the right hand of God, belonged the right of governing the celestial world, but filled with pride, he rebelled against his Father and fell from Heaven. Then, aided by the companions of his fall, he created the visible world, image of the celestial, having like the other its sun, moon, and stars, and last he created man and the serpent which became his minister. Later Christ came to earth in order to show men the way to Heaven, but His death was ineffectual, for even by descending into Hell He could not wrest the power from Satanael, i.e., Satan. This belief in the impotence of Christ and the necessity therefore for placating Satan, not only "the Prince of this world," but its creator, led to the further doctrine that Satan, being all-powerful, should be adored ((Morals and Dogma, 63). "

How do Masons explain this?
 

mandym

New Member
In speaking of the "symbolic" blood oaths that Masons take Albert Pike said the following:

"Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819)

"There must always be a commonplace interpretation for the mass of initiates, of the symbols that are eloquent to the Adepts." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819) [The "Adept" are Thirty-Third Degree and above.]
 

mandym

New Member
--Way off base, mister. NOTHING in Masonry teaches a "salvation" works-based or otherwise. You will not find salvation in a Masonic lodge, it is not there! If anyone seeks salvation in our Fraternity, they will be disappointed and come up empty-handed. Not there.

You are quite correct, that 'salvation' is not mentioned. And for a very good reason, it is not there.


Wrong

"The symbolism of the Master's Degree, as we have it now, is necessarily restricted to the First Temple and to the present life; although it reaches a climax in the assurance of a future life all without the aid of the Bible, God, Jesus Christ or the church." (John A. Hertel Company, "The Masonic Bible,' pages 10-11)
 

mandym

New Member
Freemasonry is an occult:

"The masonic doctrine of the unity of God teaches that: (1) The names of the different nature gods (Brahma, Baal, Om, On, Dagon, Osiris, Allah, Molech, and Shango), along with Jehovah, all denote the generative (reproductive) principle in nature. (2) All religions are essentially the same in their ideas of the divine. (3) It is for this express purpose that the simple Mason is instructed to look upon every man's religion as his own." (C. F. McQuaig and James D. Shaw, "The Masonic Report," page 8)

"What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything? Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons." (1 Corinthians 10:19-21)
 

mandym

New Member
For those who do not know here is the oath in question:


"I do most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without the least equivocation, mental reservation, or self evasion of mind in me whatever; binding myself under no less penalty than to have my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by the roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea at low watermark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours; so help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same." (Captain Morgan, "Freemasonry Exposed," pages 21-22.)
 

mandym

New Member
Masons are taught to hide their crimes:


"You must conceal all the crimes of your brother Masons, except murder and treason, and these only at your own option, and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him. Prevaricate [falsify], don't tell the whole truth in his case, keep his secrets, forget the most important points. It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations, and remember if you live up to your obligation strictly, you'll be free from sin." (Edmond Ronayne, "Masonic Handbook," page 183)
 

mandym

New Member
At the highest level a Mason must swear allegiance to the lodge above God and everyone else.


"We then swore true allegiance to the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree, above all other allegiances, and swore never to recognize any other brother as being a member of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry unless he also recognizes the supreme authority of 'this Supreme Council.' . . . There were some extremely prominent men there that day, including a Scandinavian King, two former presidents of the United States, an internationally prominent evangelist, two other internationally prominent clergymen, and a very high official of the federal government, the one who actually presented me with the certificate of the 33rd Degree." (Jim Shaw and Tom McKenney, "The Deadly Deception," pages 104-105)
 

Baptist4life

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"The symbolism of the Master's Degree, as we have it now, is necessarily restricted to the First Temple and to the present life; although it reaches a climax in the assurance of a future life all without the aid of the Bible, God, Jesus Christ or the church." (John A. Hertel Company, "The Masonic Bible,' pages 10-11)

I would think THAT would cause any Christian to FLEE Masonry.
 

Frogman

<img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
The Scripture teaches that except ye be born again ye cannot see or enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Nowhere is there a teaching in Scripture that states that except ye believe ye cannot be born again.

In fact in context of John 3 Christ stated that if ye believe not ye are condemned already.

This is speaking of a timely or experiential condemnation.

It is in the same concept as stating to the Pharisees that they compass the earth to make one proselyte and in making him, they make him two fold more a child of hell than they themselves.

Brother Charles it is good to meet you.

Brethren, you are reading things written by a man, Albert Pike. Although he has been presented as the mouth of all masons, a little study of his history and the limitations of his scholarship will reveal to you the truth concerning his writings in the book Morals and Dogma. A book reputed to be the Bible of all Masons, yet I have never even seen one much less to have read it. I was initiated in Feb. 06, passed in Apr. and raised to the sublime degree of master mason in July 06. I entered into York Rite Masonry in Sept. 08 in Maysville, KY. I am a member of the York Rite Royal Arch Masonic chapter in Glasgow, KY. after my work in Maysville ended and I was laid off I returned with my family to my home of Glasgow. I am currently within the degrees of York Rite Council of the Grand Council of KY of Royal and Select and Super Excellent Master Masons. I am awaiting opportunity to enter further into the completion of the York Rite by elevating to the Knights Templar.

All that Brother Charles has written to you from the beginning of his very excellent post of information is true and correct and represents the sole purpose of Masonry either at the Blue Lodge level, in the 3 degrees of Masonry, which is the ground and completion of all Speculative Masonry, or in the further degrees.

There is no secret with held from brethren of lesser degrees from within the supposed 'higher' degrees because the 'lesser' degrees are the ground of those suspected to be higher. The secrets on Masonry consist only in recognition of another Mason and if he so chooses not even another Mason will know him to be a Brother.

The whole teaching of Masonry receives members of all faiths based on a hope of God in His mercy to redeem a people for His name sake. This is the hope of which the faith of ALL Christians rests as Paul teaches us in Hebrews 11.

It is of no concern to me whether you support masonry or whether you oppose it or whether you are indifferent, but what does concern me is that you would base your opposition upon partial truth that is purposed to only excite your emotional passions.

It has already been shown to you that each of us are under the 'oath' to Christ to perform a 'blood' oath in any offense of sight, action or walk in plucking out our eye, cutting off our hand or foot for any offense particular to that. Yet this is not an oath taken literally but given for the impression of the serious nature of our profession of faith in Christ in that it is impossible that offense may come, but it were better that for he through whom the offense comes not to have been born or to have a millstone tied about his neck and he cast into the sea.

Which of us perform this oath of blood and death in the disciplinary actions of either our personal walk before Christ or our collective congregational worship of Him?

I have been to many baptism, but I have never been to a body performing unhappy but sometimes needful disciplinary action in which the offender had a millstone tied about his neck and we cast him into the sea, yet the scripture says it would be better for such a thing to befall this offender?

Zeal is a good thing when rightly applied. When applied in error we often find ourselves even in opposition to God.

God is not weak and his arm is not shortened that he cannot save his people. This is the redemption we have in Christ. Not all are able, for varying circumstances to 'come' to faith. But all will come to Christ being born of his Spirit and of all these not one will fail to be brought with Christ when he delivers up the Kingdom to His Father and ours.

In relationship to the history of Albert Pike. He was raised in the 3rd degree and very soon and perhaps unprepared so, given the symbolic degrees of the Scottish Rite. He then was given the charge to write a work of instruction and history of the rites of Masonry. He faithfully poured himself into this study in preparation of doing all that his hand found to do with all the might provided him, yet he himself admits he had little or no understanding of the meaning of many of the symbols in masonry, so he sought it out according to the fact that masonry is not an intended substitute for Christ nor the Christian doctrine and church, but that by such application he might provide a body of knowledge to aid and assist the Brethren to bear in mind their moral duty to each other and to their fellow man irregardless of their particular faith and practice in matters of religion.

In the word of God the word "Lucifer" means bearer of light. NOW, if the predominant thought is that this word is the same as Lucifer, then that is a Christian application and not first to be found or used by Pike.

Who is the bearer of Light? Hint: You will find John the Apostle declare Him by witness of John the Baptist.

The great hindrance to Albert Pike is that he was limited in his knowledge and understanding of the symbols of masonry and he sought far and wide to make applications that would teach moral lessons, in order to improve the lives of masons and those they were able to daily help through their family, acquaintanceship etc. There is no dark religious undertone. All endeavors of masonry and among masons seek the blessing of God, the Eternal Living God who has created the universe and writes his laws into the hearts of his people according to his everlasting covenant, that His blessing be upon the timely work of masons and masonry.

Brethren, none have offended me. None have accused me. None have made me to feel censured or rebuked. I only answered in this thread in order to show truth. I did not answer to prove any man wrong. As I have said, whether it is right to speak such an 'high and sacred' oath and faithfully perform it before God under his watchcare, or whether it is right to denounce such an oath as evil based only upon partial truth, you must decide.

As for me, I am a Mason, I support the work of Masonry and none of my support of Masonry is for the intent that I may gain or indebt God to grant me eternal life.

bro. Dallas:wavey:
 
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cemab4y

New Member
The Entered Apprentice oath.

I'd like to speak from a position of truth on this subject. Frogman, can you post the oath so that we can all speak on it from equal ground?

(from cemab4y). I posted the Entered Apprentice oath, previously. Here it is again:

I, (name), of my own free will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God, and this Worshipful Lodge, erected to Him, and dedicated to the holy Sts. John, do hereby and hereon (Master presses his gavel on candidate's knuckles) most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, that I will always hail, ever conceal, and never reveal, any of the arts, parts, or points of the hidden mysteries of Ancient Free Masonry, which may have been, or hereafter shall be, at this time, or any future period, communicated to me, as such, to any person or persons whomsoever, except it be to a true and lawful brother Mason, or in a regularly constituted Lodge of Masons; nor unto him or them until, by strict trial, due examination, or lawful information, I shall have found him, or them, as lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself. I furthermore promise and swear that I will not print, paint, stamp, stain, cut, carve, mark, or engrave them, or cause the same to be done, on any thing movable or immovable, capable of receiving the least impression of a word, syllable, letter, or character, whereby the same may become legible or intelligible to any person under the canopy of heaven, and the secrets of Masonry thereby unlawfully obtained through my unworthiness.

All this I most solemnly, sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steadfast resolution to perform the same, without any mental reservation or secret evasion of mind whatever, binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea, at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly violate this my Entered Apprentice obligation. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same. (end of the oath)

---------

All of the oaths have been published in books, and on line for many years.

As far as speaking on "equal ground", that is problematic. Masonry is like the "ink-blot test" that you take in the psychologist's office. You see what you want to see. Some people see a satanist, cult, right out of the pit of hell. Some see a wonderful, educational and fraternal organization, that teaches fundamental lessons of truth, brotherly love, and relief to the poor, the sick, the widow, and the orphan. Some see an organization, that disbruses over $2.6 million dollars per day, to relieve human suffering, and provide free medical care to crippled and burned children, and enable thousands of deserving young people, to get the college education they deserve.

It is worth noting, that Adolf Hitler, Francisco Franco, Josef Stalin, and dictators and tyrants throughout history have hated freemasonry, and worked to crush the Fraternity. When you oppose Freemasonry, you walk with these monsters.

George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Paul Revere, Andrew Jackson, and many (but not all) of the founding fathers, were Freemasons. They brought the lessons of freedom and tolerance into their personal lives, and their political philosophies. When you support Freemasonry, you are walking with these men.

Who do you walk with?
 

cemab4y

New Member
clarification

I would think THAT would cause any Christian to FLEE Masonry.

"The symbolism of the Master's Degree, as we have it now, is necessarily restricted to the First Temple and to the present life; although it reaches a climax in the assurance of a future life all without the aid of the Bible, God, Jesus Christ or the church." (John A. Hertel Company, "The Masonic Bible,' pages 10-11)

This is preposterous. First, there is no such thing as a "Masonic Bible". Masonry has no revealed scripture, none at all. There is no "Book of Mason". I am appalled that any thinking person, would assume that there is. Masonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. Masonry will in no way, prepare any individual for an afterlife. Masonry, wisely, avoids any religious debate. It does not state that all "religions are equal", but it clearly states that all men are equal.

Masonry makes no attempt to define "sin" or "salvation". A purpose of Masonry, is to assist men, in self-improvement. (There are other purposes and goals). Masons are taught brotherly love, relief, and truth. Friendship and morality are also taught. These concepts transcend religious difference. Even an atheist can be a moral man.

No mason has ever, nor will ever gain acceptance into a future life, through the teachings of Masonry. If any man ever approached me, and asked me to sponsor him in Masonry, so that he could get an afterlife, I would tell him that he was sadly mistaken, and misinformed. I would not assist him in petitioning the fraternity.
 

cemab4y

New Member
more misinformation

Masons are taught to hide their crimes:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Masons are taught to hide their crimes:



Quote:
"You must conceal all the crimes of your brother Masons, except murder and treason, and these only at your own option, and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him. Prevaricate [falsify], don't tell the whole truth in his case, keep his secrets, forget the most important points. It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations, and remember if you live up to your obligation strictly, you'll be free from sin." (Edmond Ronayne, "Masonic Handbook," page 183)

__________________
"Ex-military are bad for law enforcement as they tend to be brutal ......"~Freeatlast

This is so false, as to be disgusting. The quotation cited is from an obscure book, written in 1904. The writer, Edmond Ronayne, does not speak for all of Masonry, and his book was never adopted as official policy for any Masonic body anywhere.

The writing is mostly from the 19th century, and the terminology and prose is turgid, and totally inapplicable to Freemasonry. Certain words and phrases, are archaic and obsolete.

To get it in proper context:

Masons are indeed taught to keep the secrets of brother Masons. Just like a doctor is required to keep the professional confidences entrusted unto him. Masons are not required to keep a secret of a brother Mason, who is involved in treason or murder, these being left to his own discretion.

NO MASON IS TAUGHT to lie or commit perjury! This is preposterous, and beyond belief. On the contrary, Truth is one of the pillars of our Fraternity.

The book cited is available on line:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1425320155/?tag=baptis04-20

The problem with citing quotations from books such as this (including, Morals and Dogma), is that these authors are expressing their own opinions, however weird or bizarre they may be. Taking one little passage, totally out of context, will lead the reader down a path of misunderstanding.

Masonry is a serious subject, and it invites serious study.
 

cemab4y

New Member
getting fruit from the poisoned tree

At the highest level a Mason must swear allegiance to the lodge above God and everyone else.
Quote:
"We then swore true allegiance to the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree, above all other allegiances, and swore never to recognize any other brother as being a member of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry unless he also recognizes the supreme authority of 'this Supreme Council.' . . . There were some extremely prominent men there that day, including a Scandinavian King, two former presidents of the United States, an internationally prominent evangelist, two other internationally prominent clergymen, and a very high official of the federal government, the one who actually presented me with the certificate of the 33rd Degree." (Jim Shaw and Tom McKenney, "The Deadly Deception," pages 104-105)

__________________

The problem with this information is that it is totally false. In the first place, Tom McKenney was never a Mason. And in the second place, Jim Shaw was never a 33rd degree Mason. Any statements about the 33rd degree ceremony attributed to a man who never took the degree, is therefore meaningless.

See http://204.3.136.66/web/SRpublications/deHoyos-chapter5.htm
 
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