Should baptists be part of the free masonry?

[CF1]

I myself am a subject of Masonic aid having been born premature and staying in the incubator 32 days, reported of having died by the hospital 12 days after birth, now I have a granddaughter who has likewise received Masonic aid. She is now nearly three months old and was due on Nov. 19, 2011. By the Grace of God alone she and I are alive today because of the work of Freemasonry.

It appears you are heavily biased by your experiences and relationships in the Masons, rather than by Scriptural Truth. This seems to be a very dangerous position on which to base your conclusions.

You should believe that God gave you spiritual life and love for God, which is a greater gift than your physical life. God may have used an ungodly organization like the Masons to accomplish his work in your physical life, just like God uses greedy hospitals, bent on profits, to accomplish Gods work, but the thanksgiving should only go to God, not the greedy hospital, and not to a man-centered humanistic organization.

Please pray and meditate on this:
2 Corinthians 10:5

5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ


Why would any Christian even remotely want to involve themselves in organizations that raise themselves up against Christ?

• Secrets
• Oaths
• Calling positions "Worshipful Master" !!!
• Reports of demonic activity at higher levels that must be kept secret

If you can't see how this is blasphemous to God, you have serious error in your thinking and need to re-visit your conclusions.

The Lord is our ONLY Master and jealous for our worship.

Deuteronomy 4:24
English Standard Version (ESV)
24For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Typical Masonic Oath

Taken by 3rd Degree Freemasons – (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1964 A.D.)
The blindfolded candidate kneels at the altar, places both hands on the volume of sacred law, the square and compass, and repeats after the worshipful master:
I, _________, of my own free will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God, and this Worshipful Lodge, erected to Him and dedicated to the holy St. John, do hereby and hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, that I will hail, ever conceal, and never reveal any of the secrets, arts, parts, point or points, of the Master Mason's Degree, to any person or persons whomsoever, except that it be a true and lawful brother of this Degree, or in a regularly constituted Lodge of Master Masons, nor unto him, or them, until by strict trial, due examination, or lawful information, I shall have found him, or them, as lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself. I furthermore promise and swear, that I will stand to and abide by all laws, rules, and regulations of the Master Masons Degree, and of the Lodge of which I may hereafter become a member, as far as the same shall come to my knowledge; and that I will ever maintain and support the Constitution, laws, and edicts of the Grand Lodge under which the same shall be holden. Further, that I will acknowledge and obey all due signs and summons sent to me from a Master Masons' Lodge, or given me by a brother of that Degree, if within the length of my cable tow. Further, that I will always aid and assist all poor, distressed, worthy Master Masons, their widows and orphans, knowing them to be such, as far as their necessities may require, and my ability permit, without material injury to myself and family. Further, that I will keep a worthy brother Master Mason's secrets inviolable, when communicated to and received by me as such, murder and treason excepted. Further, that I will not aid, nor be present at, the initiation, passing, or raising of a woman, an old man in his dotage, a young man in his nonage, an atheist, a madman, or fool, knowing them to be such. Further, that I will not sit in a Lodge of Clandestine-made Masons, nor converse on the subject of Masonry with a clandestine-made Mason, nor one who has been expelled or suspended from a Lodge, while under that sentence, knowing him or them to be such. Further, I will not cheat, wrong, nor defraud a Master Masons' Lodge, nor a brother of this Degree, knowingly, nor supplant him in any of his laudable undertakings, but will give him due and timely notice, that he may ward off all danger. Further, that I will not knowingly strike a brother Master Mason, or otherwise do him personal violence in anger, except in the necessary defense of my family or property. Further, that I will not have illegal carnal intercourse with a Master Mason's wife, his mother, sister, or daughter knowing them to be such, nor suffer the same to be done by others, if in my power to prevent. Further, that I will not give the Grand Masonic word, in any other manner or form than that in which I shall receive it, and then in a low breath. Further, that I will not give the Grand Hailing Sign of distress except in case of the most imminent danger, in a just and lawful Lodge, or for the benefit of instruction; and if ever I should see it given, or hear the words accompanying it, by a worthy brother in distress, I will fly to his relief, if there is a greater probability of saving his life than losing my own. All this I most solemnly, sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steady resolution to perform the same, without any hesitation, myself, under no less penalty than that of having my body severed in two, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered before the four winds of heaven, that no more remembrance might be had of so vile and wicked a wretch as I would be, should I ever, knowingly, violate this my Master Mason's obligation. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.

 

[matt wade]

Brother Matt,
I answered you in truth. I can choose to post the oath. However I will not post the oath. The oath is not hidden and is made available if you or others wish to find it. Many who have found it present it out of context leaving off words and attempt to make it to read as if it opposes God or Christ or Christianity.

You asked me if I can post the oath, well, I can, it is no secret as some believe. But I choose not to post it.

You admit that the copies I find online may leave off words and attempt to make it read differently.

This can be easily remedied. Simply post the oath in its fullness for us to read and consider. For one that claims there are no secrets in Masonry, you sure seem to be holding the oath secret.

I'm ready and willing to approach the oath with an open mind and fairness. I simply need you to post it and verify its accuracy so that I can be sure I am considering the full and proper oath.

 

[Frogman]

Brother Matt,
I said you can find full copies online, what you are accustomed to reading presented by those in opposition are fraudulent in their biased attempt to sway your passions such that they leave off or highlight portions of the oath so as to make it to appear to read something that it does not.

As far as any concerned of my Spiritual well-being, I was born of God long before I knew of the Masons or masonic teachings, I was Blessed of God to have had my life preserved through aid of masonic works.

I was also born of God long before I came to repentance and faith and submitted to Baptist baptism.

Christ does not give the order of our Eternal Life to be based upon any corruptible man made written creed of faith and order, but upon the word 'except ye be born again ye cannot see nor enter'

Paul further tells us that if any man possesses not the Spirit of Christ, then he is none of his.

You brethren continually react to what you only partly know of.

Brother Matt, go back and read what I really wrote to you and if you are interested in truth quit trying to play the 'I oppose Masonry' game by misrepresenting what is stated.

I said you can find the oath online given fully, you can find the oath at Barnes and Noble, given fully, you can also find it given online given by those who's only interest in truth is that they may glory in your flesh in presenting to you 1/2 truths, omissions, misrepresentations, falsifications, yet lay all these charges to the foot of Masons and Masonry.

bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

You admit that the copies I find online may leave off words and attempt to make it read differently.

This can be easily remedied. Simply post the oath in its fullness for us to read and consider. For one that claims there are no secrets in Masonry, you sure seem to be holding the oath secret.

I'm ready and willing to approach the oath with an open mind and fairness. I simply need you to post it and verify its accuracy so that I can be sure I am considering the full and proper oath.

You have no interest in real truth only in glorification in the flesh. So regardless of what I would 'verify' to you as truth you would not receive it as truth. This is why we are said to be born of the incorruptible word which is the LOGOS, the Eternal Son of God and not to be born of the corruptible word which is in the hands of man wrestled to suit their own fanciful desire and glory in their own flesh, who maketh you to differ?

Do you trust in God through Christ? Or do you trust in your trust of your creed of confession? Paul says righteousness is first in the heart, if you do not understand this you would not understand Masonry even if I lay out and verified its entire teaching.

bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

CF1
The LORD is my only Master, I am free from bondage to any and all men. If you will read the oath you posted according to truth you will see that there.

The title worshipful master is not elevating any man over, above nor against Christ. It is a title of recognition of a man who has been counted worthy to serve the Lodge in the capacity as moderator.

But you wouldn't know this because your sight is blinded by the flesh and you cannot see afar off from anything more than your own thoughts. If you are under the impression that the word of God is bound by your particular creed or faith and order, then you ought to at least have the decency to present a document of Baptist origin rather than of RCC wherein the first spirit of greed and jealousy rose up by the flesh of man to purpose to defy, defame, and destroy the work and works of Masons and Masonry.

You guys just prove what I have already stated, you have no interest in true history in which factual knowledge may be established. How could I confirm anything to be true concerning Masonry, in one instance you have one who's word is not bound by any and in another you have one who's word is bound by his conscience, you choose to not believe my word though I have spoken to you in truth and instead you choose to believe the word of one who knowing the teachings of Masonry still was only willing to give you half the truth in order to arouse your passion against it.

What in this oath is in opposition to either Christ or God? Nothing except by your own imaginations of evil.

bro. Dallas

 

[matt wade]

It's evident to me that you are trying to hide something. Someone with nothing to hide doesn't talk so much about nothing. I'm done here, I think you've proven the point that Masonry is not something any honest person (Christian or not) should be involved in.

 

[freeatlast]

No because Scripture clearly teaches us this foundation standeth sure, God knoweth them that are his.

It doesn't matter what I receive intellectually that does not make me a child of God nor does that make me a non-child of God. What makes any person a child of God is the witness of the Spirit of Adoption having been sent into his/her heart crying ABBA, Father.

Now, the very evidence that such a person would even erroneously come to think they are able to serve God through a 'works' system is evidence of their having been born of this Spirit, for this reason, Peter was sent to Cornelius.

We ought to not pay lip service to Grace, but attempt to bind the word of God such that we make Christ to teach that except a man believe he can't see nor enter into the kingdom of heaven. The true statement of Christ is that except that ye be born again...Paul said too that if ye are made to feel after him, then seek him...any person who fears God possesses the beginning of wisdom, even in an erroneous religious system of 'works' which is also found among many Christian groups, even among some Baptists, is denying Grace, for Paul said it is either by grace or works, and if grace, then works are no more but if by works, then grace is no more.

The child of God does not seek God because he/she knows the gospel or has heard the gospel. A child of God seeks God because they are his child and he has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into their hearts.

So no, there is no danger of any one of whom God gave to Christ and for whom Christ redeemed (bought with the price of His blood and now they belong to him in error or truth) failing of receiving the earnest of the inheritance which is the Spirit despite of their depth of knowledge or understanding.

We are not called in the Gospel to make sheep, but to feed the sheep and thereby to make disciples, or students of Christ. In the same way you speak toward one entering Masonry under a false hope it is just as likely that one could enter into the church under a false hope, but Paul clearly tells us in several places (Heb. 10 is one) that we are not of those who believe this, but we believe unto the saving (preservation) of the soul. This preservation is of and by the Free Grace of God upon ALL for whom Christ died and is not related to their works of obedience, righteousness nor any other work, or we ought to lay aside Grace and all speak that which we mean, that the only way we may receive eternal life is by works we have done and continue in doing (perseverance).

No, there is no such danger of a none elect being falsely led to believe he is a child by error, nor is there any danger of the elect being deceived for they hold this witness within themselves, IF it is needful that we justify each other, then we have no need of Christ and he is died in vain.

Our justification is by Free Grace, by Christ's resurrection and living forever having died and now living, by His blood and finally, but timely, by our faith.

Justifying faith is toward peace with God in hearing, believing and living according to the fact of a hope in God which that faith is the substance of our already standing in such Grace that God will be merciful, faith is the realization of the hope of all the OT saints that the promised seed WILL come, and the realization of all under the gospel dispensation that He has come.

Now, if the body of doctrine that I follow is that which determines my Eternal Life, then Paul clearly told Timothy to take heed to himself and to his doctrine that in so doing he would both save himself and his hearers, so then it is not Christ, but the preacher who eternally saves according to the message he preaches?

Of course this is error, but many believe this whether they know they do or not, thus they are continually binding God's dear children in the spirit of bondage to fear rather than showing them their deliverer and deliverance from bondage to the fear of death.

Now, do you believe that Eternal Life is by works? Paul was telling Timothy to take heed because that salvation under consideration is a gospel salvation in the knowledge of our now possessing peace with God through the reconciliation of Christ in the offering of His body once for all. There is no other offering we may bring to atone for our sins, not even faith in a proper body of doctrine for we each believe or know only in part, so then all we are able to bring is a peace/fellowship offering through Christ.

Apart from this we will have no true experiential knowledge or Rest in Christ, but we may very well be children of the King by the witness of the Spirit of His life in us.

bro. Dallas

I fear for you as that kind of belief is vey dangerous.

 

[Frogman]

Luke 18:9-17 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Consider the true meaning of these passages. If you stop short as to whether the Pharisee failed of eternal justification then you will have the stone of stumbling upon which you Brethren are tripping.

As I said, you have no need to fear for me. I possessed the witness of God by His Spirit long before I possessed faith, repentance and obedience to the Him in the Gospel, it is by that witness that teaches that ALL Life, natural and Spiritual is first present, then experienced. My child did not become my child because he/she believed themselves to be my child, but by birth. The same is true of the child of God. We are His by birth and not by any measure of belief in that are we made his child. Believing gives to us the power to become (to realize) this fact of our position in Christ as heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.

If ye can't understand such simple earthly things in analogy to the heavenly eternal spiritual truth how are ye teachers in Israel? By fear and bondage to the spirit of fear of death under the Law? Know ye not that ye are made free from the law of sin and death by the Life of Christ Jesus?

bro. Dallas
:tonofbricks::1_grouphug:

 

[CF1]

Only the Word of God and prayer has power. We are weak and needy. But He and His Word are strong.

Luke 11:35
Therefore be careful lest the light in you be darkness.

Luke 22:53
When I was with you day after day in the temple, you did not lay hands on me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness."

John 3:19
And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

Romans 13:12
The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

2 Corinthians 10:4
For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.

Luke 9:5
And wherever they do not receive you, when you leave that town shake off the dust from your feet as a testimony against them."


Here is a book I recommend on Spiritual Warfare of anyone finds themself in need of it.

Believer's Guide to Spiritual Warfare

 

[Baptist4life]

Why is a Mason allowed to be a Baptist forum moderator, I'd like to know.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Why is a Mason allowed to be a Baptist forum moderator, I'd like to know.

Why are YOU allowed to post here? Better yet, why am I allowed to post here and be an Administrator?

We have great latitude in personal lives of each member on the BB. No two of us will agree on everything.

We have every sort of Baptist here. We have every age, sex, marital status, those who would NEVER be a Mason (such as myself) and others who are very much involved in the Lodge.

Someone may not like a member or a mod or an administrator or the owner of the BB being "x" or "y" of "z". You have an option - leave or stay.

But the first person who says Frogman isn't saved because he's a mason is going to find the door quickly.

 

[Luke2427]

You Brethren can read. You have chosen to only read what you already believe.

You have not and do not understand the history....


...oppose it from the position of this ignorance...

Welcome to baptistboard.

 

[preacher4truth]

I fear for you as that kind of belief is vey dangerous.

:thumbsup:

As a former member of Order of DeMolay, I speak from experience about the fact of the secretism. And believe me, these fellows aren't nearly as good as they want you to believe they are. Why? Because no one is! To me it was and is a flesh parade of "look how moral and how good I am." That's one thing they express often: their goodness.

I'll stick to the scriptural route, good works to be done through the church, in the name of Christ, not under the masonic symbolism or name. They can claim all they want they do it for Him and is His name, but I beg to differ, and this is simply not true. As glfredrick said this is akin to Babel, in a new package.

The local churches need to be more involved in these types of good works.

 

[Baptist4life]

Why are YOU allowed to post here? Better yet, why am I allowed to post here and be an Administrator?

We have great latitude in personal lives of each member on the BB. No two of us will agree on everything.

We have every sort of Baptist here. We have every age, sex, marital status, those who would NEVER be a Mason (such as myself) and others who are very much involved in the Lodge.

Someone may not like a member or a mod or an administrator or the owner of the BB being "x" or "y" of "z". You have an option - leave or stay.

But the first person who says Frogman isn't saved because he's a mason is going to find the door quickly.

Never was I insinuating that he wasn't saved! I was just asking because I've seen people reprimanded for posting here who weren't Baptist. That was all.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Never was I insinuating that he wasn't saved! I was just asking because I've seen people reprimanded for posting here who weren't Baptist. That was all.

No sweat, bro. Message was a "warning shot" to all on the thread as well . .

 

[cemab4y]

Plan on sticking around

Cemab4y, everything you just posted, you could say about the catholics. Would you want them to be integated into your baptist family, while holding to their RCC teachings? I trow not.


Me thinks you will not be here for long......just sayin'

I signed onto this board in 2006. I intend to stay. Just because I do not post a lot, does not mean that I do not read a lot of the items here.

I do not see a connection between Freemasonry and Catholicism. The Roman Catholic church leadership is vehemently opposed to Freemasonry. (one more reason for people to join, IMHO). The current pope, Benedict XVI (nee Joseph Ratzinger) is a former Hitler-youth, and he is probably the most anti-Masonic pope the RCC has had in the past two hundred years.

 

[cemab4y]

First, NO! A Christian cannot be a Mason and yet be faithful to God.


--Every Masonic lodge is erected to God, and dedicated to the Holy Saints John (St. John the Baptist, and St. John the Evangelist). Every Mason must believe in the Supreme Being (NO Atheist can be made a Mason). Most Masons find that their Masonic experience, increases their religious life, and their religious experience.



God is not about "anthropological" efforts to create utopia. That is antithetical to God on the highest order, and akin to the Tower of Babel.

No argument here. What does this have to with Freemasonry?

Second, you suggest that the Masons are not a secret society.

I stand on my statement. Masonry is not in any way a secret society. Secret Societies hide their existence. Masonry hires publicists to publicize our Fraternity. The Grand Lodge of Massachusetts holds two state-wide open houses each year, where every lodge in the state is open to the public. I do not leave my house, unless I am wearing my lodge ring. I have a Masonic license plate on my car, issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles. Masonic stickers are on my car windows. I have a Masonic "welcome mat" in front of my door. Masonic buildings are clearly marked, meetings times are published. Every Grand Lodge in the USA has a website, and many lodges have their own website. And you still insist that Freemasonry is a 'secret'. Get Real .



Please recite here on the board the pledge you took to become a member of the Lodge.

I will not recite the oath. But I did a "cut and paste" and here it is:

I, (name), of my own free will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God, and this Worshipful Lodge, erected to Him, and dedicated to the holy Sts. John, do hereby and hereon (Master presses his gavel on candidate's knuckles) most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, that I will always hail, ever conceal, and never reveal, any of the arts, parts, or points of the hidden mysteries of Ancient Free Masonry, which may have been, or hereafter shall be, at this time, or any future period, communicated to me, as such, to any person or persons whomsoever, except it be to a true and lawful brother Mason, or in a regularly constituted Lodge of Masons; nor unto him or them until, by strict trial, due examination, or lawful information, I shall have found him, or them, as lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself. I furthermore promise and swear that I will not print, paint, stamp, stain, cut, carve, mark, or engrave them, or cause the same to be done, on any thing movable or immovable, capable of receiving the least impression of a word, syllable, letter, or character, whereby the same may become legible or intelligible to any person under the canopy of heaven, and the secrets of Masonry thereby unlawfully obtained through my unworthiness.

All this I most solemnly, sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steadfast resolution to perform the same, without any mental reservation or secret evasion of mind whatever, binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea, at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly violate this my Entered Apprentice obligation. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same







Note that according to that (those) pledges, you will suffer an horrendous death for revealing them to the general public.

You are correct in stating that the Masoic Lodge are not Christian. One point for you.

The penalty is SYMBOLIC only, and is never invoked. The only punishments ever invoked are: Reprimand, Suspension, or expulsion.

 

[mandym]

The penalty is SYMBOLIC only, and is never invoked. The only punishments ever invoked are: Reprimand, Suspension, or expulsion.

Christians have no business being part of any organization that imposes such a penalty symbolically or otherwise.

 

[cemab4y]

clarification

Brother,
You know the masonic oath forbids any Mason from with holding information known of another Mason in any case of murder or treason. Why don't you tell us this truth?

You are not grasping the spirit and intention of the Masonic oaths. Every Mason is required to keep the secrets entrusted to him, by his brother Mason. This is the exact same, as a doctor being entrusted to keep the medical information of his patients secret. In Freemasonry, members are not required to keep the secrets of a brother, when murder and treason are involved. The keeping of such secrets is left to the discretion of the Mason.

I appreciate the fact that you have been there and that you know their teachings, I am just wandering why you would think it good and proper to not equate what you are not telling us as truth is not a lie?

I cannot speak for anyone else. I will be glad to tell anyone anything they wish to know about Freemasonry (provided of course, that I am knowledgeable about the topic). If I do not know the answer, I will guide you to the truth, by website or book,etc. Masonry has cardinal values: Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth.

The word of God teaches us that if we break one law we are guilty of all. So, why have you not told us how the great unbreakable Masonic oath states clearly that no Brother Mason may protect or hide information directly implicating the act of any other Brother in commission of an act of murder or treason?

Your understanding is flawed. As I stated: When a Mason is entrusted with the secrets of a Brother Mason, he is required to keep those secrets inviolable. When it comes to murder and treason, the keeping of the information, or divulging it, is left to the discretion of the Mason.

Why is that so hard to understand? If you desire to speak truth, speak the truth in full, speaking only that which provides a sense of knowledge, but removing from context or with holding other related information is the same as lying, why is that so hard to understand?

I will not lie to you. I will tell you the exact truth about Masonry. I am bound to do no less.

bro. Dallas

Feel free to ask any question you like. I will tell you the truth.

 

[cemab4y]

if this is what you feel

Christians have no business being part of any organization that imposes such a penalty symbolically or otherwise.

==If you feel this way, then Freemasonry is definetly not for you. Why do you feel this? Is there some Bible verse, or Christian teaching that teaches this?

The penalties in Freemasonry, are taken from Old Medieval penalties for treason. They are NEVER invoked, and are symbolic only. The meaning and purpose of the penalties, is to instill among the oath-taker, the symbolic pain he would feel, should he ever break the oath.

I say again: If the taking of such oaths are at variance with your religious or personal beliefs, then obviously, Masonry is not for you.