Featured Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

The question is does something original
Intention affix permanent morality to thay custom? I believe no.

If you say yes, I would tell you that to be consistent you have to stop a large amount of wedding customs since many of them were pagan in origin.

 

Well, ACTUALLY, Easter comes from the German ostern, "eastern". it was an old fest practiced by Germanic tribes in the days of Constantine, 300s AD, complete with a legend of egg-laying bunnies, prompting new bonnets for the ladies & treats for the kiddies. Some missionaries from Constantine worked the story of Jesus' death & resurrection into this observance, and...VOILA! Easter was born!

 

While Scripture is silent on the date of Jesus' birth, we can take some hints from the fact that shepherds were still tending sheep outside. While winters are milder in that part of the world than in most of the USA, sheep were generally kept mostly in from late October til mid-March. I'll venture to say Jesus was born in early or mid-October.

Why was Dec, 25 chosen as His birth date? From what I've been able to find, many peoples did, & still do, observe the long shadows from the sun at sunrise & sunset. They've known when the solstices occur for a long time.

Many people have marked places where the shadows reach their most-northern or southern points each year. They knew that Dec. 21 is the winter solstice, but the first discernible retreat of the shadows southward isn't seen til the 25th. thus, this date took on special meaning. A very popular Roman holiday of Dec. 25 was dies solis invicti nati (“day of the birth of the unconquered sun”), based upon the beginning of the sun's retreat to the north.

A Christian historian named Sextus Julius Africanus was the first prominent to call Dec. 25 Jesus' birthday in 221 AD. This date soon became universally accepted, with many Catholix christianizing the the Roman holiday.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with observing the FACT of Jesus' birth, & having a cheerful holiday to promote happiness and break the monotony of winter weather...long as we remember that JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON!

 

Luk 2:11
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Luk 2:12
And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Luk 2:13
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luk 2:14
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Luk 2:15¶
And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.

The angels celebrated,,, so the question is timing?

 

Well, there you go - direct from the Scriptures. Now how can any self respecting Sola Scripturist believe those words and then deny the Christmas celebration?

 

OKAY.....
Eostre,( Easter derives from), Ostara, it's all the same, ostern your point? It is all depends upon spelling feminine , masculine..

There is a belief that the name “Easter” originates from an ancient Anglo-Saxon goddess of the dawn named “Eastre”, “Eostre”, or “Ostara”. Ostern does mean "eastern" masculine and yes Easter is English. In any case it does derive from the name of a feminine goddess. Ostern simply means eastern that is not to denote it means a goddess. There was NO male god of the east in this pagan worship. They had other gods obviously which were male but she (Eostre) is replaced by Christ, is my point as have all pagan gods. They have been demoted in essence in the consciousness of men who formerly gave glory to these pseudo gods, which are actually just demons.

 

Are you speaking as to the name (Origins) of the days of the week?

 

I am not denying scripture just questioning when it might occur. We do not know the exact date but celebrate a birthday anyway.

 

Timing:

It has been researched by many astronomers -who look back in antiquity to the records of various cultures, the events cosmically around Christ' birth. Some have deduced that the Star of Bethlehem was actually either a comet or Nova event with their leanings more toward Nova. Why? Well according to Chinese and Syrian observations during the time of Christ's birth they noted that around , I believe it was 4 or 5BC, a light was witnessed in the heavens which began in the Month of March .

They , based on this and the weather from December thru Feb. in Bethlehem believe it is any where from March to May that Christ was born. Why, because it would be too cold and rainy for the shepherds to have been sleeping in the fields with their flocks. The months of March to May where actually the birthing periods for the sheep.

This Nova or comet event to me is important based on the historical accounts of the Census in Israel decreed by Caesar Augustus . There has been much debate concerning the aligning of Luke's account and the Jewish historian Josephus whose dates seem to be messed up. This has only been debated actually over the past 100 yrs.

Anyway, historians with the help of astronomers, have been able , in their estimation , to align everything. The wise men believed that such a great celestial event denoted a great birth, on earth. Along with their study of prophecy they went forth to see this great sight.

The advisors of Herod had no idea what the event meant , it was the arrival of the wise men and their caravan which alarmed them.

The 4-5 BC Chinese star is often associated with the Star of Bethlehem due to the coincidence in dates and the time of year that it was observed. As such it is interesting to examine its visibility, based on what little is known about it from the contemporary chronicles, combining them with weather data and other astronomical information.


Luke’s comment that shepherds were in the mountains around Bethlehem tending their flocks by night is totally inconsistent with the Nativity having taken place in winter. The weather in Jerusalem, which is 6km north of Bethlehem and at similar altitude, is cool and humid between October and March; moderate frosts and heavy snowfall are by no means unknown. A comparison with shepherds that use traditional methods in the central plateau of Spain, where the altitude and climatic conditions are similar, suggests that night-time vigil is a feature of lambing time in spring and possibly of summer if there are large predators such as wolves in the region of the pastures.
Chronology

The evidence that King Herod the Great died in late March or early April 4BC is generally regarded as conclusive. Thus , it is thus generally supposed, that the birth of Jesus took place between one and three years beforehand, between 7 and 5BC. This date is also coherent with the known date of a census that was ordered by Caesar Augustus in 8BC. We also know from an inscription called the “Lapis Venetus” (above left) that Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, legate of the emperor in Syria, carried out a census for Augustus, although the date is not given.

Comet Theory:
The Chinese description of the Star


If we accept mid to late March 5BC as the most likely date of the Nativity, we discover that there is an interesting coincidence in date with one of the very few Chinese records that exist from the period between 1BC and 20BC.


The records dated 10BC and 12BC are both known to be of Comet Halley. The former is a so-called “ghost record” with a date error. However, the Chinese records allow us to get an excellent idea of the movement and brightness of Comet Halley in 12BC
The chronicle, the “Ch'ien-han-shu” states that:


"In the second year of the period of Ch'ien-p'ing, second month, a hui-hsing appeared in Ch'ien-niu for more than 70 days"


This record can be translated as:


“During the interval between March 10th and April 7th of 5 BC, a comet that was visible for more than 70 days appeared close to Alpha and Beta Capricornii”
The visibility of the Nova Bethlehem from Persia


It is now widely assumed that the Magi were not Babylonian (as had been widely believed previously, although not based on any solid evidence), but instead Zoroastrian priests from northern Persia. Thus we must assume that the Magi initially saw Nova Bethlehem from there. However, we also know from Matthew’s account that the Magi were able to see the nova on their journey from Jerusalem to Bethlehem.


First we will calculate its visibility from Persia around the time that it was first sighted. As the first observation comes close to the Spring Equinox the time of morning twilight in Persia changes rapidly at this time. Astronomers define three types of twilight:


· Astronomical, when the upper limb of the Sun is 18º below the horizon. This is the moment when the horizon first begins to brighten although the zenith is dark.


· Nautical, when the upper limb of the Sun is 12º below the horizon. This is used by the navy as the moment for dawn action stations and in the army for the dawn stand-to. At this point the eastern horizon is bright and light is extending up towards the zenith.


· Civil, when the upper limb of the Sun is 6º below the horizon. Better known to drivers as “lighting up time”, this is when effectively the transition from day to night occurs.


The local time of twilight in Tehran was:


Tehran

Nautical twilight

Astronomical twilight

March 1st 5BC

06:13

05:44

March 15th 5BC

05:53

05:24

April 1st 5BC

05:27

04:57


The (very approximate) hypothetical position of the nova at 5am local time in Tehran on March 1st 5BC would have been:





The nova would have appeared low in the east or southeast in the pre-dawn sky. The earlier the date that the nova appeared and the further to the south that it was located, the later it would rise and the lower it would be in the sky at dawn.


If it appeared close to the star SAO 144144, dimly visible near the centre of the circle as a magnitude 6.5 star, its circumstances would have been:


Date

Astronomical twilight

Altitude

Azimuth

Time of rising

March 1st 5BC

05:44

28º

133º

03:01

March 15th 5BC

05:24

33º

142º

02:06

April 1st 5BC

04:59

37º

152º

01:03


In contrast, had it appeared alongside Alpha Capricornii, it would have been significantly lower in the sky and would have risen a quarter of an hour later.


Date

Astronomical twilight

Altitude

Azimuth

Time of rising

March 1st 5BC

05:44

24º

135º

03:17

March 15th 5BC

05:24

29º

143º

02:22

April 1st 5BC

04:59

33º

153º

01:20


From Medea, in the north of Persia, the presumed home of the Magi, the duration of twilight would have been a little longer, the altitude of the nova a few degrees lower and the time of rising another 15-20 minutes later.


However, this cannot explain a much-commented problem with the nova: unless the nova appeared at least a month earlier than the Ch'ien-han-shu suggests, it is hard to square its position in the sky as a heliacal rising according to the modern translation of Matthew. The nova would have been seen in the east in the pre-dawn sky, but would have reached a significant altitude by that time.

I believe personally, it was both a comet and Star Nova, which occurred during the Birth of Christ. Just like the Sept. 23rd 2017 sign was preceded by many other cosmic events, and many are to continue after.

This is not all definitive , this is simply my observation.

 

but what WE know as Easter came from that German fest. As I said, it included a legend of egg-laying bunnies, with new headgear for the women, treats for the kiddies, & hot-cross buns. Now, I don't know if ostern is male or female, but it doesn't matter, as it's not a living thing.

 

I do not know if this is considered to be off topic, I find this video very interesting maybe some here have already seen it?

Since I introduced some Chinese accounts concerning the Star of Bethlehem, this coincides with that. Merry Christmas!

 

Not anymore! It is about the ONLY GOD OF THE EAST , CHRIST, The Rising Son. Why this would bother you is beyond me, unless you are of one of those jezebel churches that just does not get what is happening? All the thoughts of the mind are being lead captive to Christ. Christ is a God of fertility, "Christ please help me , heal me ,make me no longer barren". He is the God of all needs, He crushes all deities under His feet and commands all worship for the Body of Christ in His Name, of His name, by His name.
Ostern is masculine. In the parts I come from we say Buona Pasqua! Good Passover! For death has truly passed over those in Christ and He is the Passover Lamb. My point, I am not going to attack English speaking people for saying Happy Easter, because Christ is the God of the east . And based on that, they say it based on this premise of thought.

As for the secular heart, that is their problem. If they think it is about a bunny rising from the east and setting in the west, again, their problem. If they think this is not straight up stupid OH WELL! God is the judge of men's hearts, not me.
So, your point?

 

(Original post snipped for bervity)

Quirinius was de-facto ruler of the Judea area the first time from C. 6 BC to C. 3 BC as he was there to lead a fight against a tribe called the Homonadenses. His force subdued them, then he hung around to negotiate a peace with them & to see that they intended to abide by it.

As for Jesus' death date, that one's easy! He underwent His "passion" on the first day of passover, which was on Wednesday in 27 AD. Thus, He was in the tomb Thursday, Friday, & Saturday, being resurrected before Sunday began. (The Sabbath beginning at sunset Wednesday was a "High Sabbath", the first of the two Holy Congregation days of Passover Week. A High Sabbath can fall on any day of the week. That's why Wednesday was the "Preparation Day" in which all ordinary chores were completed so only essential work was done on the High Sabbath day, same as for the normal weekly Sabbath.) So, this puts Jesus' birth in 6 BC

Now, as for Augustus Caesar's decree that all the Roman world should be taxed...the Romans kept very-detailed records of taxes & censuses ordered by the Caesars or the Senate. There's simply NO record that Augie issued any such order. However, the usual taxing authority was the local governor, and it's well-known that Quirinius had Augie's complete trust & therefore he could order things such as taxes or censuses in Caesar's name, unquestioned. So, it's quite likely that Quirinius ordered the census/tax of Scripture in Augie's name. Remember, Q was the area's governor the first time C.6 to C. 3 BC.

Then, it's been pretty well established that Herod died in 4 BC, not long after being visited by the magi & ordering the murder of all Jewish male babies 2 years old or younger. And the magi said they'd first seen their guiding star 2 years earlier. It's also been fairly-well established that the magi were Zoroastrian astrologers from northern Persia & would have an intimate knowledge of the sky & how to navigate by the stars. And the prophecy of the Messiah had been given to the Persians by the Jews while they were under Persian rule. (Not known how a star became part of that prophecy.)

So, it's likely Jesus was born in 6 BC & died/was resurrected in 27 AD. But we should simply be thankful that He came to be punished & die an unimaginably-painful death for OUR sins! (He took enough physical abuse to have killed an ordinary person several times!)

 

My point is that there was no Christian rite called Easter for a good while after the resurrection of Jesus. And I don't believe it started out as pagan; I believe it was merely secular at first til the resurrection story was worked in.

 

Sacrificial lambs were in the fields all year.

We have a better account of the year from the destruction of Jerusalem and Jesus comments in the Talmud and the identification from the Crucifixion.

Why did Jesus have a star?

 

I do not believe I said it was ever part of the the original gospel story. But for sure, Christ as a conqueror is. And the fact ,that it is through Him , all thoughts are brought into submission for centuries and decades to come is true ,to the end of the age and the complete establishment of His Kingdom. Christianity transcends time and all men's worship is being and has been conquered by Him and are RIGHTFULLY given unto Him. He has changed the minds of men. No one is disputing there was a pagan practice, I am disputing that you assert that today it is a pagan practice to say Happy Easter. There was NO Happy Easter before . There was the worship of Eostre, Period! Again Easter is masculine and refers to the Rising Sun, Christ TRULY IS, PERIOD! He is the Sun which clothes the woman of REV.12, PERIOD. Symbolism can denote a truth concerning ones power and authority. PERIOD!

You seem to want to just simply condemn those who call themselves Christian and use the term Happy Easter, PERIOD!