Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

[robycop3]

John MacArthur said it was the Shekinah Glory and I agree. Besides, I don"t believe in deep time, as you know.

Sorry, captain, but the "deep time" fact has been proven. Light, radio waves, electricity, etc. all move at the same maximum speed of over 185K miles/second. Nothing natural moves faster. Those rays/waves can be slowed down, but not sped up past that max.

Proof? When men walked on the moon, it took ablut 1.5 seconds for a radio signal to travel either way. So, the farther an object is from us, the longer it takes its light or radio waves to reach us.

God allowed man to discover the speeda light for a reason. And the Andromeda galaxy, our closest galactic neighbor, is so far away it takes light from it over a million years to reach us. Now, there's simply NO disproving that FACT!

God, being eternal & having always existed, has had plentya time to make His plans & execute them. There's simply no Scriptural reference to God's Shekinah glory being shown us from space. The magi, who were astrologers, said it was a star, & I believe they knew a star when they saw one.

 

[church mouse guy]

Sorry, captain, but the "deep time" fact has been proven. Light, radio waves, electricity, etc. all move at the same maximum speed of over 185K miles/second. Nothing natural moves faster. Those rays/waves can be slowed down, but not sped up past that max.

Proof? When men walked on the moon, it took ablut 1.5 seconds for a radio signal to travel either way. So, the farther an object is from us, the longer it takes its light or radio waves to reach us.

God allowed man to discover the speeda light for a reason. And the Andromeda galaxy, our closest galactic neighbor, is so far away it takes light from it over a million years to reach us. Now, there's simply NO disproving that FACT!

God, being eternal & having always existed, has had plentya time to make His plans & execute them. There's simply no Scriptural reference to God's Shekinah glory being shown us from space. The magi, who were astrologers, said it was a star, & I believe they knew a star when they saw one.

There are answers to all your points about deep time. In a nutshell there is no proof of uniformitarianism because there are no records. God probably created the universe fully mature. The animals and Adam and Eve would have needed full-grown plants for food. Some think that Adam sinned after only a couple of days.

Another interesting question raised by Creation.com is that the star moved from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. Moses knew what guided the Jews in the wilderness; the wise men had to call what guided them a star as they were heathen, no?

 

[shodan]

The yearly "always winter and never Christmas" thread~!

 

[church mouse guy]

The yearly "always winter and never Christmas" thread~!

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

 

[Revmitchell]

Christ-mass unmistakenly has its roots in baal worship which predominated the Roman religion at the time Baal (sun worship) worship was renamed "Christmas" in order to keep paganized Christians from leaving the apostate churches of that day. The essence of Christmas was established in ancient Babel and then universally distributed so that it is practiced world wide (from the middle east to the far east - china) with varying traditions that have been added.

If you were living at the time that Baal worship (sun worship) was simply renamed "Christmas" would you still practice it? Why or why not? Many believe that the centrality of a tree (evergreen, palm, etc.) as an object of worship (thus gifts at its base) was included in its ancient observance (Jer. 10:1-9).

Does a change in name change what something is? For example, does taking up the title "Christian" make a person different? Where does God approve of Christianizing pagan types of worship?

You guys have to stop with this myth. It's just not true.

 

[robycop3]

There are answers to all your points about deep time.

But no CORRECT ones.

God has left us proof of earth's great age all over. I live near one such proof - the APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS. Geologists have determined from their inner layers & bases that they once stood as high as the Rockies. It took a great deal of time to erode them down to their present sizes. They're all deeply covered in soil; any force powerful enough to have eroded them quickly woulda washed away all detritus & soil from them.

Same for the Grand Canyon. Any force strong enough to have cut it quickly woulda washed away EVERYTHING, there wouldn't be a canyon; there'd be a huge valley with a flat bottom.

And mosta us have split open lumps of coal & found the fossils of many extinct plants & of those that haven't grown for millions of years in areas where the coal came from. For instance, West Virginia bituminous coal often contains fossils of tropical plants!

Remember, God has greatly increased our knowledge in these end times & He's allowed us to discover FACTS about the planet right under our feet. He has allowed us to discover the speeda light, land on the moon, measure the distances to many stars, among other things. He did not cause us to discover those things to deceive ourselves!

In a nutshell there is no proof of uniformitarianism because there are no records. God probably created the universe fully mature.

The animals and Adam and Eve would have needed full-grown plants for food. Some think that Adam sinned after only a couple of days.

Evidence shows otherwise. There are stars being formed even now, and there are stars of all different ages close enough to be observed. AND, GOD IS STILL CREATING SPECIES OF PLANT/ANIMAL LIFE!

Now, while God likely created A & E, & all life fully mature so it could reproduce, eat, & be eaten, remember, Scripture sez the earth was without form and empty, but that the Holy Spirit moved over the face of THE DEEP, which shows earth was already here. And there's no denying that dinosaurs & many other animals & plants existed before man did.

Another interesting question raised by Creation.com is that the star moved from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. Moses knew what guided the Jews in the wilderness; the wise men had to call what guided them a star as they were heathen, no?

The distance between Jerusalem & Bethlehem is only 5.52 miles. And there's a lotta difference between God's Shekinah glory and a star. Since the magi were astrologers, they certainly knew a star when they saw one.

 

[church mouse guy]

But no CORRECT ones.

God has left us proof of earth's great age all over. I live near one such proof - the APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS. Geologists have determined from their inner layers & bases that they once stood as high as the Rockies. It took a great deal of time to erode them down to their present sizes. They're all deeply covered in soil; any force powerful enough to have eroded them quickly woulda washed away all detritus & soil from them.

Same for the Grand Canyon. Any force strong enough to have cut it quickly woulda washed away EVERYTHING, there wouldn't be a canyon; there'd be a huge valley with a flat bottom.

And mosta us have split open lumps of coal & found the fossils of many extinct plants & of those that haven't grown for millions of years in areas where the coal came from. For instance, West Virginia bituminous coal often contains fossils of tropical plants!

Remember, God has greatly increased our knowledge in these end times & He's allowed us to discover FACTS about the planet right under our feet. He has allowed us to discover the speeda light, land on the moon, measure the distances to many stars, among other things. He did not cause us to discover those things to deceive ourselves!



Evidence shows otherwise. There are stars being formed even now, and there are stars of all different ages close enough to be observed. AND, GOD IS STILL CREATING SPECIES OF PLANT/ANIMAL LIFE!

Now, while God likely created A & E, & all life fully mature so it could reproduce, eat, & be eaten, remember, Scripture sez the earth was without form and empty, but that the Holy Spirit moved over the face of THE DEEP, which shows earth was already here. And there's no denying that dinosaurs & many other animals & plants existed before man did.



The distance between Jerusalem & Bethlehem is only 5.52 miles. And there's a lotta difference between God's Shekinah glory and a star. Since the magi were astrologers, they certainly knew a star when they saw one.

Do you believe in the Genesis Flood?

So how do stars move south from the north when the earth spins east-west? Would that be a miracle?

 

[robycop3]

Do you believe in the Genesis Flood?

Yes. There's evidence of it found all over earth, such as seashells near the summit of Mt. Everest.

So how do stars move south from the north when the earth spins east-west? Would that be a miracle?

The angle from which we view the stars changes as earth revolves around the sun. just as it changes as earth rotates on its axis. these motions of earth make it appear to us that the sun & stars are moving, as, due to relativity, we don't feel those motions, as we are undergoing the same motions also. If you're driving a vehicle at 80 MPH on a windless day & you open a window, it seema an 80 MPH wind is blowing by outside. If you have a fly buzzing around in your vehicle as you drive 80 MPH with all windows up & you pass a stationary pedestrian, if he/she could see that fly, it'd appear to be flying at 80 MPH, which no fly can do. Same with our relative view of the stars at different timesa year.

Now, howda YOU explain the disappearance of many animals such as dinosaurs, woolly mammoths, which were better-equipped to survive than today's elephants, or "cave bears", which were better-equipped than today's bears, when Noah took male & female of EVERY land animal into the ark?

 

[church mouse guy]

Yes. There's evidence of it found all over earth, such as seashells near the summit of Mt. Everest.




The angle from which we view the stars changes as earth revolves around the sun. just as it changes as earth rotates on its axis. these motions of earth make it appear to us that the sun & stars are moving, as, due to relativity, we don't feel those motions, as we are undergoing the same motions also. If you're driving a vehicle at 80 MPH on a windless day & you open a window, it seema an 80 MPH wind is blowing by outside. If you have a fly buzzing around in your vehicle as you drive 80 MPH with all windows up & you pass a stationary pedestrian, if he/she could see that fly, it'd appear to be flying at 80 MPH, which no fly can do. Same with our relative view of the stars at different timesa year.

Now, howda YOU explain the disappearance of many animals such as dinosaurs, woolly mammoths, which were better-equipped to survive than today's elephants, or "cave bears", which were better-equipped than today's bears, when Noah took male & female of EVERY land animal into the ark?

If something is inside a car going 80 MPH, that something is also going 80 MPH. I don't know about others on this board where the subject has been debated before, but MacArthur taught Shekinah Glory twenty years ago on television and I agree with him although I picked up the star theory from a big-city planetarium when I was a child. Also, Answers in Genesis (AiG), the world's largest apologetics ministry at this time teaches Shekinah Glory.

Matthew 2:9 (KJV) When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.


"...Two details in Matthew are of special interest. First, the text implies that only the Magi saw the star. Comets, conjunctions, and exploding stars would be visible to everyone on Earth. Second, the star went before the Magi, and led them from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. This is a distance of about six miles, in a direction from north to south. However, not only does every natural object in the sky move from east to west due to the Earth’s rotation, but it is difficult to imagine how a natural light could lead the way to a particular house.

"The conclusion is that the Star of Bethlehem cannot be explained by science! It was a temporary and supernatural light. After all, was not the first Christmas a time of miracles? God has often used special, heavenly lights to guide His people, such as the glory that filled the tabernacle (Exod. 40:34-38) and the temple (1 Kings 8:10) and that shone upon the apostle Paul (Acts 9:3). Such visible signs of God’s presence are known as the Shekinah Glory, or dwelling place of God. This special light is a visible manifestation of divine majesty. The great mystery of the first Christmas is not the origin of its special star. It is the question of why the Magi were chosen to follow the light to the Messiah, and why we are given the same invitation today."

What Was the Star of Bethlehem?

As for the dinosaurs, AiG teaches that they were on the Ark. However, afterwards the world was greatly changed and they did not adapt and may have been purposely hunted down and killed by men because of the threat that they posed.

On the issue of the Woolly Mammoth, Young Earth Creations have the best explanation for it. Essentially, they believe that it was trapped in dust storms like those of the American Dust Bowl or worse but associated with the Ice Age.

The Mammoth and the Ice Age

 

[Jennifer Marie]

Being born and raised in a Christian home, my brother and I knew of the idea of Santa and the Easter bunny up until a certain point. I can't ever recall my mom saying "yes, they are real." She would remind us of the true Spirit of the season and why we celebrate. How sad is it that the word "Christmas" is associated with false idols, greed, commercialism, money, and spoiling the child, and Easter is associated with a magic rabbit that leaves chocolate everywhere. (if you're a rabbit owner, there's a joke in there ).

I think Satan will use his power to put a spin on things to pull us away from God but we know what we believe is true and that there's a true, living God and He will protect us in this sinful world. It's just sad that I can look around and none of the people seem to be God-fearing anymore.

 

[robycop3]

If something is inside a car going 80 MPH, that something is also going 80 MPH. I don't know about others on this board where the subject has been debated before, but MacArthur taught Shekinah Glory twenty years ago on television and I agree with him although I picked up the star theory from a big-city planetarium when I was a child. Also, Answers in Genesis (AiG), the world's largest apologetics ministry at this time teaches Shekinah Glory.

Matthew 2:9 (KJV) When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.


"...Two details in Matthew are of special interest. First, the text implies that only the Magi saw the star. Comets, conjunctions, and exploding stars would be visible to everyone on Earth. Second, the star went before the Magi, and led them from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. This is a distance of about six miles, in a direction from north to south. However, not only does every natural object in the sky move from east to west due to the Earth’s rotation, but it is difficult to imagine how a natural light could lead the way to a particular house.

"The conclusion is that the Star of Bethlehem cannot be explained by science! It was a temporary and supernatural light. After all, was not the first Christmas a time of miracles? God has often used special, heavenly lights to guide His people, such as the glory that filled the tabernacle (Exod. 40:34-38) and the temple (1 Kings 8:10) and that shone upon the apostle Paul (Acts 9:3). Such visible signs of God’s presence are known as the Shekinah Glory, or dwelling place of God. This special light is a visible manifestation of divine majesty. The great mystery of the first Christmas is not the origin of its special star. It is the question of why the Magi were chosen to follow the light to the Messiah, and why we are given the same invitation today."

What Was the Star of Bethlehem?

As for the dinosaurs, AiG teaches that they were on the Ark. However, afterwards the world was greatly changed and they did not adapt and may have been purposely hunted down and killed by men because of the threat that they posed.

On the issue of the Woolly Mammoth, Young Earth Creations have the best explanation for it. Essentially, they believe that it was trapped in dust storms like those of the American Dust Bowl or worse but associated with the Ice Age.

The Mammoth and the Ice Age

Well, actually, remember some mammoths have been found largely intact in Siberia. These carcasses were largely intact, and meat from some of them has even been sold in the USA!

These mammoths were found with GRASS in their mouths & digestive tracts, and grass has not grown in that part of the world within man's memory. Also, the memmoths had DIED ON THEIR FEET, SUDDENLY, & the condition of their bodies show they were QUICK-FROZEN, and THAT was the apparent cause of death. They showed no sign of distress, seeming to have been unaware of any danger beforehand. And they appear to have been frozen by a cold far-greater than is found even in northern Siberia.

There's a theory that the north pole axis was once in Greenland. If one takes a globe & turns it so Greenland is at the top, one can see Siberia woulda been in the temperate zone. that same theory also says that earth's rotation was suddenly disturbed, moving both its rotational axis and magnetic poles. Besides the mammoths, another piece of evidence for this theory is that frozen plants have been found in the depths of the soil of Antaectica, species of plants that cannot live there now.

Part of the theory says that this disturbance of rotation caused some of the super-cold upper atmosphere th be hurled to the earth's surface in places, just a few miles in circumference, as mammoth bodies are only found in a few small areas in Siberia, but the shift in the axis placed much of Siberia above the Arctic Circle, keeping the mammoths frozen.

But at any rate, this is just a theory, but the mammoth bodies & frozen Antarctic plants are REAL!

 

[church mouse guy]

Well, actually, remember some mammoths have been found largely intact in Siberia. These carcasses were largely intact, and meat from some of them has even been sold in the USA!

These mammoths were found with GRASS in their mouths & digestive tracts, and grass has not grown in that part of the world within man's memory. Also, the memmoths had DIED ON THEIR FEET, SUDDENLY, & the condition of their bodies show they were QUICK-FROZEN, and THAT was the apparent cause of death. They showed no sign of distress, seeming to have been unaware of any danger beforehand. And they appear to have been frozen by a cold far-greater than is found even in northern Siberia.

There's a theory that the north pole axis was once in Greenland. If one takes a globe & turns it so Greenland is at the top, one can see Siberia woulda been in the temperate zone. that same theory also says that earth's rotation was suddenly disturbed, moving both its rotational axis and magnetic poles. Besides the mammoths, another piece of evidence for this theory is that frozen plants have been found in the depths of the soil of Antaectica, species of plants that cannot live there now.

Part of the theory says that this disturbance of rotation caused some of the super-cold upper atmosphere th be hurled to the earth's surface in places, just a few miles in circumference, as mammoth bodies are only found in a few small areas in Siberia, but the shift in the axis placed much of Siberia above the Arctic Circle, keeping the mammoths frozen.

But at any rate, this is just a theory, but the mammoth bodies & frozen Antarctic plants are REAL!

The link that I gave you above discusses all of those issues.

 

[robycop3]

The link that I gave you above discusses all of those issues.

But, when looked at with science & common sense, those answers are mostly wrong. Remember, God didn't cause us to discover those facts in order to deceive ourselves.

The great age of the earth is discerned by the evidence of events such as those I mentioned earlier that simply could NOT have occurred in only 6K years. The Bible shows us earth was already here when God made it into what it now is, as His spirit moved over THE FACE OF THE DEEP.

The La Brea tar pits near Los Angeles, CA contain the remains of hundreds of animals that are now extinct, & were better-equipped to survive than are many of today's species. Also, there are animals there that could not live in that area's present climate.

And there's no evidence that earlier creatures such as most known species of dinos were here when man first was. However, many peoples that didn't know of each other's existence "back in the day" have dragon legends they could not have picked up from elsewhere.

there's simply too much opinion and guesswork on that link vs. proven facts from elsewhere.

 

[robycop3]

But, when looked at with science & common sense, those answers are mostly wrong. Remember, God didn't cause us to discover those facts in order to deceive ourselves.

The great age of the earth is discerned by the evidence of events such as those I mentioned earlier that simply could NOT have occurred in only 6K years. The Bible shows us earth was already here when God made it into what it now is, as His spirit moved over THE FACE OF THE DEEP.

The La Brea tar pits near Los Angeles, CA contain the remains of hundreds of animals that are now extinct, & were better-equipped to survive than are many of today's species. Also, there are animals there that could not live in that area's present climate.

And there's no evidence that earlier creatures such as most known species of dinos were here when man first was. However, many peoples that didn't know of each other's existence "back in the day" have dragon legends they could not have picked up from elsewhere.

there's simply too much opinion and guesswork on that link vs. proven facts from elsewhere.

So, if we believe Scripture as originally written, free of man-made private interps & poor translations, we see earth was in place before God made it into its present configuration. We see there are many species of plants & animals that have not existed since before God made man. We see most areas of earth once had a different climate than they now have. We see events such as the formation of coal & the fossilization of plant/animal remains that simply could NOT have happened rapidly. Every time we travel a road cut thru a hill or mountain we see bent and wavy rocks that could NOT have been bent quickly without breaking. We see the Appalachian Mountains eroded away, largely covered with soil that could not be there had those mountains been quickly eroded.

Again, these are FACTS-not guesswork nor imagination-that God has allowed us to find, not to deceive us, but to enlighten us & show proof of His existence & power.

And again, the magi who sought young Jesus were astrologers from northern Persia who studied the stars every night, and certainly knew a star when they saw one. There's a possibility their ancestors heard the Messiah prophecy frrom Ishmael, who'd heard it from Abraham. Most likely, God first gave it to Abe, who'd passed it to Ish & Ike, who'd passed it to Jake, as, on his deathbed, Jake spoke of Shiloh to his sons as if they'd heard of Shiloh earlier. The magi were almost certainly Zoroastrians, and as such, believed in one god (but not the TRUE God) and a coming Messiah. Zoroaster could well have gotten his beliefs handed down from Ishmael, although they were distorted from worship of the REAL God. BUT THE MAGI CERTAINLY KNEW THE DIFFERENT HEAVENLY OBJECTS APART! As Scripture says the object they saw was a star, it certainly appeared to be a star, and remember, the Chinese saw a new star at the same time that lasted about 3 years.

 

[church mouse guy]

But, when looked at with science & common sense, those answers are mostly wrong. Remember, God didn't cause us to discover those facts in order to deceive ourselves.

The great age of the earth is discerned by the evidence of events such as those I mentioned earlier that simply could NOT have occurred in only 6K years. The Bible shows us earth was already here when God made it into what it now is, as His spirit moved over THE FACE OF THE DEEP.

The La Brea tar pits near Los Angeles, CA contain the remains of hundreds of animals that are now extinct, & were better-equipped to survive than are many of today's species. Also, there are animals there that could not live in that area's present climate.

And there's no evidence that earlier creatures such as most known species of dinos were here when man first was. However, many peoples that didn't know of each other's existence "back in the day" have dragon legends they could not have picked up from elsewhere.

there's simply too much opinion and guesswork on that link vs. proven facts from elsewhere.

I really don't follow you. Michael Oard is expert in geology, geophysics, glaciology, and geomorphology as well as meteorology. What specifically do you disagree with him about?

The face of the deep refers to waters. How do you explain Job 40:15-24?

 

[church mouse guy]

So, if we believe Scripture as originally written, free of man-made private interps & poor translations, we see earth was in place before God made it into its present configuration. We see there are many species of plants & animals that have not existed since before God made man. We see most areas of earth once had a different climate than they now have. We see events such as the formation of coal & the fossilization of plant/animal remains that simply could NOT have happened rapidly. Every time we travel a road cut thru a hill or mountain we see bent and wavy rocks that could NOT have been bent quickly without breaking. We see the Appalachian Mountains eroded away, largely covered with soil that could not be there had those mountains been quickly eroded.

Again, these are FACTS-not guesswork nor imagination-that God has allowed us to find, not to deceive us, but to enlighten us & show proof of His existence & power.

And again, the magi who sought young Jesus were astrologers from northern Persia who studied the stars every night, and certainly knew a star when they saw one. There's a possibility their ancestors heard the Messiah prophecy frrom Ishmael, who'd heard it from Abraham. Most likely, God first gave it to Abe, who'd passed it to Ish & Ike, who'd passed it to Jake, as, on his deathbed, Jake spoke of Shiloh to his sons as if they'd heard of Shiloh earlier. The magi were almost certainly Zoroastrians, and as such, believed in one god (but not the TRUE God) and a coming Messiah. Zoroaster could well have gotten his beliefs handed down from Ishmael, although they were distorted from worship of the REAL God. BUT THE MAGI CERTAINLY KNEW THE DIFFERENT HEAVENLY OBJECTS APART! As Scripture says the object they saw was a star, it certainly appeared to be a star, and remember, the Chinese saw a new star at the same time that lasted about 3 years.

Except that you have no explanation as to how it moved fron north to south and why King Herod didn't see it.

 

[rlvaughn]

Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

Following the spirit of Romans 14:5, I believe Christians and Christian families can individually celebrate Christmas, but need to keep the non-biblical elements (of which there are many) out of church.

 

[robycop3]

I really don't follow you. Michael Oard is expert in geology, geophysics, glaciology, and geomorphology as well as meteorology. What specifically do you disagree with him about?

For one, the killing of the preserved mammoths by dust storms. Those that were found largely intact showed no signs of distress at their deaths. It appears something almost-instantly killed them, without warning. I'm not ruling out some electrical event, but a dust storm wouldn't've killed them so quickly, & they would have shown some signs of distress, or some escape attempt, and their mouths & lungs woulda been fulla dust.

As for ice ages, there's evidence that four of them have occurred, with some mini-ages in between. There may well have been such an age after the flood, but one thing against this is that God told Noah & crew to be fruitful & multiply, and animals quickly spread all over earth.

While Prof. Oard has done some commendable research, he's so-focused on trying to establish a "young earth" that he's overlooked some equally-painstaking research by others, & has added his imagination to the FACTS.

The face of the deep refers to waters. How do you explain Job 40:15-24?

I'm not at all saying there weren't meny species of animals that didn't become extinct after the flood. behemoth may well have been one. There's no known critter now fitting its description, especially an herbivore with a large, powerful tail. It coulda been a megatherium, the largest of the ground sloths, which could reach 20 feet in length, able to stand 15 ft. high, was a herbivore, & had a fairly-short, but powerful tail. There's no explanation as to why this well-adapted creature became extinct.

As for leviathan, I believe it was either a salt-water croc, which can grow to well over 20 ft. long, or some aquatic sauropod such as tylosaurus that survived the flood. (It's unknown if tylo had scales.)

(BTW, did you know ancient alligators could reach a length of 50 feet, & the first horses were no bigger than collies? No specimans of either of those animals of those sizes have been seen by man at any time. Howdya explain those positively-verified FACTS?)

 

[robycop3]

Except that you have no explanation as to how it moved fron north to south and why King Herod didn't see it.

Howdya know Herod didn't see it? There's no evidence he was an astrologer, & therefore coulda seen it but not noted it. Same for most other people. They woulda noted it only if it'd been unusually bright, or was otherwise unusual in appearance for a star or planet. After the sun & moon, the brightest ordinary objects were,& are, Venus, Jupiter, & Mercury, with Sirius being the brightest star. All were well-known to most people. Almost certainly, the magi noted where the star first appeared in the sky in evening, concluded it was the Messiah's star, & set out to find Him. They knew to keep journeying toward the star, & noted it appeared more-overhead as they progressed. (They likely made their trip on camels, which usually aren't speed demons.) And, of course, God, wanting the magi to find Jesus, could well have intervened at that point & moved the star, planet, or whatever it was, directly over Joe & Mary's home.

As for what the light was, it coulda been a planet or large, bright asteroid. And it apparently wasn't significant to the Jews, as they also coulda found the home.

But I believe God's Shekinah glory woulda been much-brighter than any other object in the sky except the sun & moon.

 

[robycop3]

Following the spirit of Romans 14:5, I believe Christians and Christian families can individually celebrate Christmas, but need to keep the non-biblical elements (of which there are many) out of church.

A very good idea!

I get tickled at some of my neighbors trying to outdo each other with large, elaborate outdoor light and/or inflatable displays. But I'm pleased with one that has a "Nativity" scene, with the illuminated words, "THE REASON FOR THE SEASON".