Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

[church mouse guy]

Actually, those animals were destroyed before God made the present world arrangement. And while we've been focusing on mammoths & elephants, there's no accounting for the MILLIONS of species that are extinct that man apparently never saw. To have taken a pair of EVERY ONE of them aboard the ark woulda required an ark the size of a city.

As for the Grand canyon's sedimentary layer, there's evidence (not opinion or guesswork) that the area was covered by aeas at least 3 times, with Noah's flood being the topmost one. it's the only one where remains of modern life have been found.

And yes, people useta believe the earth was young til they found evidence showing otherwise. They also useta bellieve t5he earth was flat, & that the celestial objects revolved around us. Funny what a little FACT-FINDING can do!

And I believe that you believe God has always existed, as I do. It'd really be a stretch to believe He sat around twiddling His thumbs for a googolplex of a googolplex of our years til one day He decided to create a physical universe.

While you're to be congratulated & praised for trying to defend your beliefs, there's simply too much EVIDENCE against a young earth, (as opposed to imagination, opinion, & guesswork) such as the slow mountain erosion, objects in the sky being so far away it takes their light millions of years to reach us, and the FACT that over 99% of all species of life that's ever lived on earth is extinct, and was so before man coulda seen it. Nice try, but no cigar!

You would have a difficult time presenting any history that Christians believed that the earth was flat, or anyone else for that matter.

Also, you lack Scripture to prove you point. Science and Scripture align. Genesis is history. Our Lord Jesus Christ said that Adam and Eve were present at the beginning of creation, just as Genesis teaches:

Mark 10:6 (KJV) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

You have not accounted for the Great Unconformity that is found worldwide. And why would God destroy the world multiple times with floods when He promised after the first Flood that He would never again use water, but it will be fire next time.

 

[robycop3]

You would have a difficult time presenting any history that Christians believed that the earth was flat, or anyone else for that matter.

Not at all. Virtually every civilization believed it til the Greex of the 6th century BC proved otherwise by sailing ships over the horizon both ways in sight of crowds.

Also, you lack Scripture to prove you point. Science and Scripture align. Genesis is history. Our Lord Jesus Christ said that Adam and Eve were present at the beginning of creation, just as Genesis teaches:

Mark 10:6 (KJV) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Yes, from the beginning of the creation of this present arrangement. He made male and female in prehistoric life as well.

You have not accounted for the Great Unconformity that is found worldwide. And why would God destroy the world multiple times with floods when He promised after the first Flood that He would never again use water, but it will be fire next time.

The Great Unconfromity is simply gaps between different types of rock layers, where one type ends & another begins.It supports an OLD earth much-more than a young earth. It's different all over the world. Living in Appalachia, I can see such gaps every time I travel a road cut thru a hill. While the Appalachians & Alleghenies are quite-old, there's evidence across the continent of older mountain ranges that have been completely eroded away.

"Young-earthers" use SELECTIVE "EVIDENCE", while ignoring the mountains of REAL evidence that prove them wrong. Remember, the first verses of Genesis show God was then preparing to work on an EXISTING EARTH. His Spirit moved over the face of THE DEEP.

While God coulda made everything INSTANTLY, there's massive evidence that he didn't, and He's left us mucho evidence to see that. Time for you young-earthers to take an unbiased look at that evidence!

 

[church mouse guy]

Not at all. Virtually every civilization believed it til the Greex of the 6th century BC proved otherwise by sailing ships over the horizon both ways in sight of crowds.



Yes, from the beginning of the creation of this present arrangement. He made male and female in prehistoric life as well.





The Great Unconfromity is simply gaps between different types of rock layers, where one type ends & another begins.It supports an OLD earth much-more than a young earth. It's different all over the world. Living in Appalachia, I can see such gaps every time I travel a road cut thru a hill. While the Appalachians & Alleghenies are quite-old, there's evidence across the continent of older mountain ranges that have been completely eroded away.

"Young-earthers" use SELECTIVE "EVIDENCE", while ignoring the mountains of REAL evidence that prove them wrong. Remember, the first verses of Genesis show God was then preparing to work on an EXISTING EARTH. His Spirit moved over the face of THE DEEP.

While God coulda made everything INSTANTLY, there's massive evidence that he didn't, and He's left us mucho evidence to see that. Time for you young-earthers to take an unbiased look at that evidence!

There was no known life before Creation except that that was recorded in John Chapter One. That is sheer speculation by old earthers, who originate with Deists and atheists and pagan Greeks and Hinduism.

YECs examine all evidence. Old Earthers are the ones having trouble reconciling the physical universe with science. Science has marched on past Darwin and millions and millions of years but old earthers are entrenched in a vested interest that they do not want to examine on the issues, as they have had their outlook for millions and millions of years.

Even the SBC doesn't want a discussion. AiG went to a debate meeting sponsored by Dr. Richard Land. He accused AiG of calling it a debate until they showed him saved screen shots of his naming the event. Both Dr. Land and Dr. Norman Geisler are old earthers.

The Great Unconformity is where Noah's Flood beveled the rock down to the granite core and then deposited thousands of feet of sediments on top. We know from events such as Mt. St. Helens that these things happen rapidly.

The face of the deep refers to the fact that the earth was a ball of water before God called the land forth.

Genesis 1:2 (KJV) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 

[robycop3]

There was no known life before Creation except that that was recorded in John Chapter One. That is sheer speculation by old earthers, who originate with Deists and atheists and pagan Greeks and Hinduism.

Yes, almost life of the previous arrangement before this one was extinct. Only a few critters survived, most of them fish, such as the coelacanth. or water critters such as alligators, as well as some insects such as roacher & dragonflies.

YECs examine all evidence. Old Earthers are the ones having trouble reconciling the physical universe with science. Science has marched on past Darwin and millions and millions of years but old earthers are entrenched in a vested interest that they do not want to examine on the issues, as they have had their outlook for millions and millions of years.

"Examining" , but not COMPREHENDING, instead applying imagination, opinion, & guesswork to it.

Even the SBC doesn't want a discussion. AiG went to a debate meeting sponsored by Dr. Richard Land. He accused AiG of calling it a debate until they showed him saved screen shots of his naming the event. Both Dr. Land and Dr. Norman Geisler are old earthers.

The Great Unconformity is where Noah's Flood beveled the rock down to the granite core and then deposited thousands of feet of sediments on top. We know from events such as Mt. St. Helens that these things happen rapidly.

There are SEVERAL unconformity layers seen in the Grand Canyon alone, let alone in other gorges & mountains where roads have been cut.

The face of the deep refers to the fact that the earth was a ball of water before God called the land forth.

Genesis 1:2 (KJV) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Yes, but it ALREADY EXISTED. You conveniently skip that fact.

Sorry, but you YECs are bringing a knife to a gun fight.

 

[Covenanter]

I haven't read the thread, but I wanted to post on the topic. It all depends how we celebrate. We can celebrate as a family, as a church family, with the opportunities provided by special services & holiday time. I hate the emphasis of so many occasions on snow & Santa Claus - I liked the idea of him becoming a Calvinist & only giving to good children!

At a Carol Service this evening, the preacher introduced "O come all ye faithful" saying words to the effect of "You don't have to be faithful... "

I suggest the alternative -

O come all you sinners,
weary, heavy laden,
come to the Saviour born at Bethlehem.
Come in repentance,
find new life in Jesus,​

O come let us adore him...​

 

[church mouse guy]

Yes, almost life of the previous arrangement before this one was extinct. Only a few critters survived, most of them fish, such as the coelacanth. or water critters such as alligators, as well as some insects such as roacher & dragonflies.



"Examining" , but not COMPREHENDING, instead applying imagination, opinion, & guesswork to it.



There are SEVERAL unconformity layers seen in the Grand Canyon alone, let alone in other gorges & mountains where roads have been cut.



Yes, but it ALREADY EXISTED. You conveniently skip that fact.

Sorry, but you YECs are bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Only talking about the Great Unconformity.

The Bible mentions no world before Creation and Jesus said that Adam and Eve were present at Creation.

 

[robycop3]

Only talking about the Great Unconformity.

The Bible mentions no world before Creation and Jesus said that Adam and Eve were present at Creation.

OF COURSE they were present at their own creation ! !

No mention of the world before God created the present arrangement because there were no people to worship Him in Jurassic Park.

 

[church mouse guy]

OF COURSE they were present at their own creation ! !

No mention of the world before God created the present arrangement because there were no people to worship Him in Jurassic Park.

Amigo, Adam and Eve were present at the Creation, according to Jesus. I forget the name of the school of thought that you represent but I think that there is a classification for it. One of the problems with deep time is that it is not deep enough for all to transpire that the old earthers have postulated the last 200 years, huh?

 

[church mouse guy]

I haven't read the thread, but I wanted to post on the topic. It all depends how we celebrate. We can celebrate as a family, as a church family, with the opportunities provided by special services & holiday time. I hate the emphasis of so many occasions on snow & Santa Claus - I liked the idea of him becoming a Calvinist & only giving to good children!

At a Carol Service this evening, the preacher introduced "O come all ye faithful" saying words to the effect of "You don't have to be faithful... "

I suggest the alternative -

O come all you sinners,
weary, heavy laden,
come to the Saviour born at Bethlehem.
Come in repentance,
find new life in Jesus,
O come let us adore him...​

Thank you!

My friend at the car dealership where I had some routine work done on my big old SUV with 4 wheel drive for snowy rural areas surprised me by installing a free trial of satellite radio so I have been listening to Southern Gospel Christmas music for two weeks. I was even able to stream it on my computer and my cell phone. Hopefully, I can keep it if it is around five dollars a month for the first year.

My favorite Christmas song for many decades was O Holy Night. Then in the 1990s I heard the Bluegrass Song O Beautiful Star of Bethlehem and it became my favorite. Here it is sung in a church by the Queen of Bluegrass Music Rhonda Vincent:

And then I wanted to ask you if you had ever seen the old Australian movie from 1947 set during World War II because there is a British boy in the movie who was sent there for safety. It is about children who were dismissed from school for the holiday but who did not go straight home as they should have but took the long way and run into some horse thieves. It is called Bush Christmas. Here is the preview:

 

[robycop3]

Amigo, Adam and Eve were present at the Creation, according to Jesus. I forget the name of the school of thought that you represent but I think that there is a classification for it. One of the problems with deep time is that it is not deep enough for all to transpire that the old earthers have postulated the last 200 years, huh?

Yes, A&E were present at their own creation! No-brainer there!

Another indicator of old earth: large coral reefs. Even the healthiest such reef grows very slowly, and even as one such as the Great barrier reef grew at max rate all its existence, it has to be at least 25K years old.

Again, that's only one indicator of an old earth. That's a FACT, not opinion & guesswork such as YEs use.

 

[Covenanter]

Thank you!

My friend at the car dealership where I had some routine work done on my big old SUV with 4 wheel drive for snowy rural areas surprised me by installing a free trial of satellite radio so I have been listening to Southern Gospel Christmas music for two weeks. I was even able to stream it on my computer and my cell phone. Hopefully, I can keep it if it is around five dollars a month for the first year.

My favorite Christmas song for many decades was O Holy Night. Then in the 1990s I heard the Bluegrass Song O Beautiful Star of Bethlehem and it became my favorite. Here it is sung in a church by the Queen of Bluegrass Music Rhonda Vincent:


And then I wanted to ask you if you had ever seen the old Australian movie from 1947 set during World War II because there is a British boy in the movie who was sent there for safety. It is about children who were dismissed from school for the holiday but who did not go straight home as they should have but took the long way and run into some horse thieves. It is called Bush Christmas. Here is the preview:

Thanks, I will watch after Christmas - we will be away a few days. I am not familiar with either. Where we are, radio reception - including digital is poor so I listen to tapes - I've made a huge collection over the years. Music & radio programmes. The only consitent radio quality is through the TV. I'll have to enquire about satelite radio.

 

[robycop3]

Thanks, I will watch after Christmas - we will be away a few days. I am not familiar with either. Where we are, radio reception - including digital is poor so I listen to tapes - I've made a huge collection over the years. Music & radio programmes. The only consitent radio quality is through the TV. I'll have to enquire about satelite radio.

Some SR is great; other is porn.

Can't be of much help, as I have the musical ability of a turtle, & our church doesn't do music. The pastor sometimes plays a recording of "Just As I Am" or "The Old Rugged Cross" during altar call, but that's about it for us. No Christmas music.

 

[church mouse guy]

Yes, A&E were present at their own creation! No-brainer there!

Another indicator of old earth: large coral reefs. Even the healthiest such reef grows very slowly, and even as one such as the Great barrier reef grew at max rate all its existence, it has to be at least 25K years old.

Again, that's only one indicator of an old earth. That's a FACT, not opinion & guesswork such as YEs use.

So you don't believe Jesus?

 

[church mouse guy]

Thanks, I will watch after Christmas - we will be away a few days. I am not familiar with either. Where we are, radio reception - including digital is poor so I listen to tapes - I've made a huge collection over the years. Music & radio programmes. The only consitent radio quality is through the TV. I'll have to enquire about satelite radio.

Oh, it is Sirius radio. It is commercial free. We have the same kind of thing on cable tv. My friend installed on my SUV while it was being serviced. I had it when I worked downtown but it became expensive. The introductory offers are cheap. It merged with XM radio.

 

[Salty]

Apparently this thread has gotten way off base from the OP which stated:
Should Christians celebrate Christmas? Creation Ministries International in Canada presents a weekly television magazine program that recently was broadcast under the title Is Christmas based on pagan traditions?

Lets get back to the OP

 

[church mouse guy]

Apparently this thread has gotten way off base from the OP which stated:
Should Christians celebrate Christmas? Creation Ministries International in Canada presents a weekly television magazine program that recently was broadcast under the title Is Christmas based on pagan traditions?

Lets get back to the OP

Oh, the problem is that I used a young earth source and the overwhelming majority is old earth so people objected to the source. The same thing happened on my thread about commercial Christmas snacks--almost no one talked about them. I was worried when I posted that the Canadian YEC source would be impeached or rejected out of hand and it was, wasn't it? The problem was that that was the only source I found that discussed all the issues succinctly. So then the annual debate about the Star arose.

I don't think old earthers deal with the issues as much as they did in the past. I mean all of this information goes way back and comes from their sources in the last two hundred years. People just rejected CMI.

 

[robycop3]

So you don't believe Jesus?

OF COURSE I do. Don'tcha believe A&E were present at their own creation soon as it happened?

 

[church mouse guy]

OF COURSE I do. Don'tcha believe A&E were present at their own creation soon as it happened?

Yeah, I don't know how millions and millions of years got assigned before A & E. What are we looking at: 4.5 billion years?

 

[robycop3]

Yeah, I don't know how millions and millions of years got assigned before A & E. What are we looking at: 4.5 billion years?

EASY! There are many clues & mucho evidence indicating such. I've presented just a tiny portion of them.

Now, how did all that evidence get there? BY GOD'S PROVIDENCE, of course. And it's by His providence that we are able to decipher those clues. remember, God said that in the last days, knowledge & travel will greatly increase.

Luke 19:40 He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”

And in this case the very stones "cried out" evidence for us.(Yes, I realize jesus was not speaking about this in that Scripture!)

 

[robycop3]

Back to the THEME of the thread:

Observing Christmas is up to the individual. One should follow Paul's guideline & not criticize anyone else who observes, non-observes, or observes differently from you, according to that person's own beliefs.

While jews don't observe it, the merchants among them certainly take advantage of the season, as they do in Bethlehem.