Featured Should Christians Pray for the Lost?

I understand the position perfectly. What you refuse to acknowledge is there is a glaring conflict with the two above aspects of your position. An open minded person would admit that your interpretation sets up an illogical position.

 

I guess it depends on what logical standpoint you are coming from. If you are saying we must understand all the ways of God, then yes, it seems illogical. But if you are are coming from the standpoint of we must trust God in all He says and do all he commands, then it is not.

 

Ok. We now agree.

 

Whew! Glad that is over brother!

 

It's a mystery.

#6.

 

I'm glad you non-calvinists fully understand the ways of God......

 

This is in response to the OP only, I have not looked through the 7 or so pages of responses.

The missing element, in my opinion, is "how are we to pray for the lost?" Certainly we see from the above we are to pray our governmental authority allows us to live in peace as we act as ambassadors of Christ in the ministry of reconciliation. And we are to pray for more labors, which would include that we train more believers to serve Christ, and pray that our mentoring yields productive fruit.

But are we to pray God will put non-believers into His kingdom? Nope. Our prayers should focus on being effective witnesses, and enabling others to be effective witnesses. Or so it seems to me.

 

#4. YOU BELIEVE THIS (insert strawman argument)

 

Perhaps, but not biblical!

 

How so? God chooses out His own elect, and then He uses prayers and them getting the Gospel message to bring their salvation to pass!

 

I didn't say that is what you believed. Apparently you don't get sarcasm.

 

I have always wondered why the newer generation of Calvinists have been so reluctant to admit the logical fallacies the older Calvinists readily admitted.

 

Well if you just say Calvinism is illogical, like you did earlier, I don't even think older Calvinists will admit to that. You have to be more nuanced than that.

 

You admit the paradox.

 

We were talking about praying for the lost and how it related to Calvinism. The context was there.
The older Calvinists, even in debate, would readily cede some points in Calvinism do not perfectly harmonize with some scriptures. They always argued that as a whole Calvinism better harmonized with Scripture than alternate theologies. It seems that now most Calvinists see Calvinism as perfect and label any who disagree as "ignorant".

 

I did. Christ sets the example.


[Jhn 17:6-19 ESV] 6 "I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.

[Mar 6:10-11 ESV] 10 And he said to them, "Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you depart from there. 11 And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them."

I see no expression of ongoing concern for those who will not listen - no prays.

[Mar 16:15-16 ESV] 15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Christ instructed his Disciples to go, not to stay and setup camp, or build health clinics or schools. Or, you guessed it, no pray meetings for their salvation.

 

Then I guess Paul was in the wrong when he prayed for the lost?

 

So we stay on the same page, provide the scripture supporting your position.

 

Romans 10:1 for starters.