Should Christians STRONGLY support the 2ND AMENDMENT?

[Bunyon]

"If it was He would have saved everyone wouldn't He?"--------------------------------------------

It would be impossible for me to save my child from drowning if he fought and kicked and stabed to keep me off. He only saves the willing, but that does not mean his heart is not just as willing to save the unwilling if they would allow him to.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
Someone asked me what makes it right for a nation. In all honesty, I don't think God ever intended for us to spend all our time trying to kill each other - in war or otherwise. I realize that there are times in the old testament when war was condoned. However - it also said, "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth," but Christ said, that's wrong.

How much plainer can He be than that?

We answer to Christ.

The "eye for an eye" thing was a call to justice, because people were taking an arm, leg, and life for an eye. So God said was making things fair:

If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death.
18'(P)The one who takes the life of an animal shall make it good, life for life.

19'If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him:

20(Q)fracture for fracture, (R)eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

21'Thus the one who kills an animal shall make it good, but (S)the one who kills a man shall be put to death.

22'There shall be (T)one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God.'"
Lev. 24.17-22

Jesus did not say it was wrong, because this was from God, but said that we should go beyond that fairness to even not resist evil at all. He was calling us to a higher standard that went beyond the eye for eye standard.

AZ)You have heard that it was said, '(BA)AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'

39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but (BB)whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

40"If anyone wants to sue you and take your [g]shirt, let him have your [h]coat also.

41"Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.

42"(BC)Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
Matt. 5.38-42

 

[Bunyon]

So Marcia,

Sould the Christians in the Sudan who are having thair children raped and killed go not just one mile but go two with their persecutors? Is this your advice to a Sudanese mother who has lost several children already and had others maimed?

 

[TexasSky]

Hardsheller,

No, I don't think all soldiers are killers.
I do think that all soldiers have a responsibility, to God and country, to question their orders at certain times.

In Germany the orders were to destroy millions of people simply because they were Jewish. I think anyone who followed those orders without question was wrong.

In Vietnam there were men who killed the innocent, knowing they were killing innocents, because they didn't want to question the insane CO's of their units. Those men were wrong.

There are very, very, very few wars that I consider "just." MOST wars are about greed and hate.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Well thankyou for your reply KingJames.Brother sister I don't know,I could be wrong but most of the folks I know think of America as a lady probably from that Statue of Liberty.
I know we Americans complain about our government and many other things down here that is for us to df course you may complain but it is as an outsider looking in.I have traveled a bit ,lived in Europe and many parts of Asia and see how other countries run thier governments and take care of thier people firsthand so I do get a little irritatede when they spend so much time worrying about what we are doing instead of fixing thier own problems.By the way Americans know we are'nt perfect but we have been working at a constant rate for several hundered years to get better and better.

 

[OCC]

No problem Plaid Old Bill. I am in a different position than most Canadians in regards to commenting on your country. I live two blocks from the busiest border crossing between our countries. What goes on there, affects me. So I'm not your typical guy from the Yukon Territory talking about the United States. Plus, my girlfriend is American.

 

[Bunyon]

Frankly, both countries have problems and we christians can cross boarders and work together to make things better, hopfully.

 

[OCC]

Yes, both countries have problems. I always find a problem with my country but still love it. I am not unpatriotic for finding a problem with it. Not saying you have called me that Bunyon...but I see that done to others.

 

[Bunyon]

Well we are dealing with hard issues, and in the intrest of communication we all want to be straight foward and not wast verbage on being pc. But we should keep in mind that there is a point. Better understanding and communication.
I cannot fathom how you and some of the other Canadains feel as you do about free speech and gun control, but as I feel you are a real christian, I feel hearing your side is important. I also feel we Americans will follow you in many of these issue, so looking to the future, your imput and information and challanges are valuble to me.

 

[OCC]

Thank you Bunyon. I appreciate that. I think it all goes to social environment as you are growing up. You are taught that it is ok...we are taught that it is wrong. Even defending yourself here on the Baptist Board is wrong. lol

God bless you.

 

[buckster75]

A scourge (from the Italian scoriada, ultimately from the Latin excoriare [to flay] and corium [skin]), comprises a whip or lash, especially one used for the infliction of punishment.

sounds like a weapon to me.

 

[Mercury]

I don't think looking into the etymology of an English word is a good way to determine the meaning of the Greek word it translates. The only exception would be words that are transliterated from Greek, which is not the case here.

In any case, nobody has disputed that Jesus made a whip, and that whips can be used as weapons. What is lacking is any evidence that Jesus whipped people.

Jesus used the whip to drive our either beasts or beasts and people. From the account, we can be pretty sure which it is. After this act, Jesus overturned tables, scattered coins, and told those who sold doves to take their stuff out of the temple. Now, since he was talking to at least some of these people after he had driven out people or animals with the whip, it would appear that it was primarily animals he drove out. The people were still there. The people he told to leave and take their stuff with them.

It's quite a stretch to use this passage to support violent acts against people.

[ October 01, 2005, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: Mercury ]

 

[buckster75]

my greek dictionary actually says it come from the latin root.

and you need to look at the Word. he drove people out first then animals.

and I never said He used His weapon on people

 

[Mercury]

Originally posted by buckster75:
and you need to look at the Word. he drove people out first then animals.

He drove out people and animals. If the account is chronological (as I assumed in my last post), then Jesus spoke forcefully to the merchants telling them to leave with their goods at the end of the incident. As for who or what Jesus drove out with the whip, the ESV says "he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen" and the NIV says he "drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle". Whether people were included in this appears to be something that is ambiguous in the Greek, so how it is rendered in English is an interpretation. Even if Jesus' use of the whip did scare people (and not just animals) out of the temple, no clear indication is given that Jesus hurt or even touched anyone in this incident.

and I never said He used His weapon on people

If your point is that a whip could possibly be a weapon, even though there's no indication Jesus used it as such, I've repeatedly agreed with that. It is also quite likely that at some point Jesus used a knife to prepare food, so I doubt the John 2 incident was the only time Jesus held in his hand something that could be dangerous. If that's what you're looking to show, I don't think you'll find much disagreement.

 

[Hardsheller]

Baptists should stronly support the 2nd Amendment because we are the one denomination that stresses Freedom and Liberty.

In fact our forefathers in Virginia were instrumental in getting the Founding Fathers to include a Bill of Rights into the Constitution.

 

[buckster75]

KJV John 2:15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen;

the them is refering the people from the previous verse.

 

[mioque]

Should Christians STRONGLY support the 2ND AMENDMENT?

Possibly if they were AMERICAN Christians.
After all why would I support a part of the constitution of a country somewhere far away?
Makes little sense.

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Brethren,

What about the argument that the Antichrist will come when there is no longer any armed citizenry?

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Our weapons will be useless against the Anti-Christ. The only hope we would have is the power of the Holy Ghost. There is NO theological reason for us to have guns.

 

[Gold Dragon]

I don't have a problem with Christians who strongly support the 2nd ammendment. I do have a problem with Christians trying to say that it is biblical in origin.

I do support and encourage those Christians seeking to solve problems between people with dialogue and reconciliation instead of violence first. I do admire pacifist/non-resistance Christians drawing their example from Christ's words and the martyrs of early Christianity, even though I do not subscribe to those doctrines necessarily.