Should Christians strongly support the SECOND AMENDMENT?

[just-want-peace]

...over the years, how many Empires did the Lord utterly destroy through war? Love your enemies? Of course you can love your enemies while at the same time planting one right between the eyes.

When seconds count the cops are only minutes away and if you're in doubt, empty a magazine. The only thing to worry about other than some thug breaking down your door is a liberal, bleeding heart DA seeking re-election.

I like your thought process!!:thumbs:

 

[go2church]

You certainly have a lot in you.

Yeah, I noticed. You have only made fun of those who have.

I asked a question, and none of you will answer. Draw a picture of that.

I stand by what I said. Anyone who would allow themselves or their family to be victimized, without any thought of fighting back, because they think it's what God wants is a fool. Stupid. Nobody has been able to show otherwise.

So, no to the pictures? You sure?

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you, the not defending the family part. I wouldn't call nonviolence stupid, foolish.

 

[go2church]

And you have failed miserably.

So don't tak the Bible literally?

 

[corndogggy]

Yup. The most twisted scripture in the N.T.

If your daughter is being raped, you gonna offer the other one ? Your wife is getting harassed by some thug, you gonna tell her to be "good" to him ?

Strangely, there is really only one passage in the Bible that is an actual instruction on how to react in a self defense situation, and, it happens to involve a wife.

Basically if somebody attacks you, you're losing the struggle, and your wife grabs the balls of the attacker... you're supposed to chop your wife's hand off.

I'm not making this crap up. Deuteronomy 25:11-12. Everybody go look it up and tell me how I'm twisting it so badly.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Bro. Curtis - I am not suggesting that. In fact, I believe we do have a right to defend ourselves. I was pointing out that some people say we shouldn't.

I wasn't directing that towards you, but thanx for the answer. I agree.

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

i notice that you dodge the question by asking me the same.

My answer: If someone attacks my family, they have become my enemy because of their predatory actions. As for loving my enemy, i am also commanded to love my wife. I will side with my innocent wife.

You seem to equate love with tolerance for an aggressor's violence inflicted on the innocent. Defense is not revenge.

I answered, now it is your turn.

amen brother!

 

[righteousdude2]

Are you suggesting Christians should SUBMIT to being victimized ?

I've been a victim numerous times in my life .... but if it's at all possible, I want the perp to be the victim of justice.

I make good use of Closed-Circuit Television Survielance system in and around my home!

My wife and I will never, by the grace of God, be WILLING victims of crime. The times I was victimized came by people vandalizing my car, home, or stealing something when I was out and away from the home and car!

 

[HAMel]

I have never been the victim of a home invasion but did fall victim to an armed robbery back in the 1970's. The guy got five years for it.

At my age I'm too old to wrestle around with the young bucks. The old adage, "Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you."

I went to a machine shop a few years ago and had steel brackets made so that I can "bar" the door at night. Utilized lag bolts and installed them in the studs of the door. Someone might tear the door down but I'll at least have time to get the 20. gauge.

There is no excuse for allowing either yourself or one's family to fall victim if there's anything you can do about it.

 

[corndogggy]

I went to a machine shop a few years ago and had steel brackets made so that I can "bar" the door at night. Utilized lag bolts and installed them in the studs of the door. Someone might tear the door down but I'll at least have time to get the 20. gauge.

Doors don't scare me as much as windows. At least you have to work at doors. Windows, a brick or crow-bar in hand renders them useless, just smash and crawl through.

Had a home security guy come try to sell me an alarm, he kept going on about the door and magnetic window sensors that go off if you raise the window. I said dude, if I were going to break in here, I'd smash this front porch window, step right in, and I wouldn't hear a peep out of your alarm. He was kind of speechless, really didn't know what to say. Pretty stupid.

Even if the windows has jagged edges and is higher up, just bring a thick blanket to throw over the sill and it just doesn't matter at all.

 

[HAMel]

corndoggy, doors, windows..., what I am seeking is noise just prior to entry. Enough time to grab my shooting iron. Usually a clown will try the door first as most door frames are made of soft pine and bust right apart.

 

[RLBosley]

Yup. The most twisted scripture in the N.T.

If your daughter is being raped, you gonna offer the other one ? Your wife is getting harassed by some thug, you gonna tell her to be "good" to him ?

And this is why it's impossible to actually discuss this topic here. None of the pro-self defense folks are even willing to actually have a discussion. Instead they are simply too devoted to their own opinion that they must ridicule and strawman the opposing view. Completely pointless.

EDIT: I should have said "few" not "None" as a couple are actually engaging in conversation. I read what I quoted above and angrily posted what I said. Sorry. To those who are actually engaging in conversation, thank you.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Ridicule and straw man ? I'm trying to come up with a scenario where you will actually say it's OK to defend yourself, because the anti-crowd is awful short on yes or no answers.

Ridicule and straw man ?:laugh:

Which side ?

 

[RLBosley]

Translation: "I am totally ignorant of the history of Israel and the political climate at the time of Christ and as I am too lazy to educate myself I will just post a meaningless blurb without any foundation or facts."

So when you get called out for reading your own idea into the text you choose to ridicule and mock? Alright then...

Please point out a single part of that passage that says one word about self defense.

Okay, so someone is attacking your family. You are supposed to love the attacker. What do you do? Do you lay down and just let the attacker kill you? Do you tell your children to just let the attacker beat them, since retaliating obviously means you hate them? I don't mean these to sound snarky or sarcastic. This is a genuine topic to discuss.

The best option is to get away. If that means I must take the attack on myself while my wife and daughter get away then so be it. Again I'm not sure how things like tazers or pepper spray or other non lethal items like that fit in, but regardless I would not kill them.

Inference from scriptural evidence aside, I can see where you are coming from, though we obviously disagree. I believe we should strive for nonviolence, but I don't believe it means we should just allow the world to steamroll us. If Christians are not allowed to defend themselves or their families from harm, then we're right back to square one.

You said earlier that emotion plays a small part, but then you define violence has causing harm or death. We can play legalistic tug-of-war all day on terminology. To me, violence requires malice aforethought. If someone is charging at you and your family firing a gun and the only recourse you have for protecting your loved ones is firing a gun back at that person, I don't really see how that can be held against someone as a hateful act. I can see how the notion of "love," as you have defined it, can be missing from that scenario. But we also have to be honest and say that the absence of love does not equal the abundance of hate. Most humans are simply apathetic to what goes on around them.

But again the command isn't just to not hate, but to actively show love for enemies. I don't believe that most who defend themselves hate their attacker, though some certainly do. Most simply want to preserve themselves/their family.

I notice that you dodge the question by asking me the same.

My answer: If someone attacks my family, they have become my enemy because of their predatory actions. As for loving my enemy, I am also commanded to love my Wife. I will side with my innocent Wife.

You seem to equate love with tolerance for an aggressor's violence inflicted on the innocent. Defense is not revenge.

I answered, now it is your turn.

It isn't an issue of who do you love more. It's an issue of how do you love both. You can't simply "side" with one side against the other. We are commanded to love both. To side with one is to be directly disobeying Christ regarding the other.

What you and, others, are saying seems to boil down to saying, "I see what Jesus is saying, and it's nice and all, but it simply isn't practical enough for real life."

 

[RLBosley]

Ridicule and straw man ? I'm trying to come up with a scenario where you will actually say it's OK to defend yourself, because the anti-crowd is awful short on yes or no answers.

Ridicule and straw man ?:laugh:

Which side ?

Then you haven't been paying attention. And yes, your entire post I quoted was nothing but straw.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I've been paying attention. Your stance is a ridiculous one. There. Now you know I've been paying attention.

You can boil that down to whatever you wish.

 

[RLBosley]

I've been paying attention. Your stance is a ridiculous one. There. Now you know I've been paying attention.

You can boil that down to whatever you wish.

Like I said, it's utterly pointless to discuss this with some people... Not even willing to try.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Well then don't. Best option is to get away. I also noticed you never really answered until after, and then you told me I wasn't paying attention, too. Nice to just slip that in like it had been there. Pretty sneaky. Perhaps you are the one not worth talking to…...

I'm glad for the people who would face the bad guys. I praise God for them.

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

And this is why it's impossible to actually discuss this topic here. None of the pro-self defense folks are even willing to actually have a discussion. Instead they are simply too devoted to their own opinion that they must ridicule and strawman the opposing view. Completely pointless.

EDIT: I should have said "few" not "None" as a couple are actually engaging in conversation. I read what I quoted above and angrily posted what I said. Sorry. To those who are actually engaging in conversation, thank you.

Just asking, have you ever fired a BB gun? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

What an odd line of reasoning.

This thread is becoming borderline absurd.

As it does when one side comes in unhappy with the other side.

 

[RLBosley]

Just asking, have you ever fired a BB gun? :smilewinkgrin:

:laugh:
I have indeed.

Off the top of my head I've shot:
BB Gun
Pellet Gun

Shotguns:
.410 Shotgun
12 Guage (singleshot, pump and auto)
20 Guage
16 Guage (old school double barrel. MAN was my arm sore the next day!)

Rifles:
.22
30-30
30.06
AR-15
M-16
SKS
Mosin Nagant
K98 Mauser

Handguns:
.22
.38 revolver (several. My dad's favorite)
9mm (several)
.40
.45

I'm probably missing a few