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Featured Should we partner with unbeleivers in Ministry Work??!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Havensdad, Sep 21, 2013.

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  1. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    I never ignore scripture, although you seem to take a rather expansive view of same, when it is convenient. And a very attenuated view when that is needed to fit your worldview. Where does scripture say not to partner with unbelievers? And don't bother with 2 Corinthians 6:14. There Paul is talking about a permanent relationship ("bound together" or "yoked together"). He doesn't want believers to be marrying unbelievers, perhaps not going into business with unbelievers. "Bound together" does not imply an ad hoc relationship.

    Tell me, Havensdad, if a Billy Graham crusade were coming to town and they invited Catholics, Methodists and Episcopalians to participate on the local steering committee, would you boycott the crusade?

    If your church were asked to help out at the Salvation Army soup kitchen would you accept?
     
    #21 Zenas, Sep 21, 2013
  2. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
    #22 quantumfaith, Sep 21, 2013
  3. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Short answer -Nope
    Long answer - No way
     
    #23 Allan, Sep 21, 2013
  4. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    Give this man the prize for brevity!
     
    #24 Herald, Sep 21, 2013
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We should not work with unbelievers in “ministry work.” We have different purposes – the Church is seeking to act as the body of Christ and share the gospel while the “world” is concerned about some social aspect of society. But often our path’s intersect, which I believe is OK. But our actual purpose is different.
     
    #25 JonC, Sep 21, 2013
  6. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Jon, then do feel "partnering" or participating with groups or people who are not specifically believers to accomplish some community service project is acceptable. I say Yes. I am happy to serve along side many others, hoping that I may possibly in some small way salt and light.
     
    #26 quantumfaith, Sep 21, 2013
  7. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    Where on EARTH do you get that idea? You need to actually read that chapter, instead of of parroting what some preacher told you. That whole chapter is about ministry work!!

    2Co 6:1 Working together with him, then, we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
    2Co 6:2 For he says, "In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you." Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
    2Co 6:3 We put no obstacle in anyone's way, so that no fault may be found with our ministry,
    2Co 6:4 but as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: by great endurance, in afflictions, hardships, calamities,
    2Co 6:5 beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, sleepless nights, hunger;
    2Co 6:6 by purity, knowledge, patience, kindness, the Holy Spirit, genuine love;
    2Co 6:7 by truthful speech, and the power of God; with the weapons of righteousness for the right hand and for the left;
    2Co 6:8 through honor and dishonor, through slander and praise. We are treated as impostors, and yet are true;
    2Co 6:9 as unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and behold, we live; as punished, and yet not killed;
    2Co 6:10 as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, yet possessing everything.
    2Co 6:11 We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians; our heart is wide open.
    2Co 6:12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted in your own affections.
    2Co 6:13 In return (I speak as to children) widen your hearts also.
    2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
    2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
    2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
    2Co 6:18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty."

    Being "yoked together" is a direct reference to ministry, to labor...

    Mat_11:29 TakeG142 myG3450 yokeG2218 uponG1909 you,


    Of COURSE I WOULDN'T!! Why on earth would I help Catholics lead others to hell? Now, Methodists are believers, and perhaps some Episcopalians are as well, so that would be different. But Catholics or Mormons?? Not a chance!

    That would depend upon many things. If their were catholics or mormons or Jehovah's witnesses allowed to work there and minister there, then NO, I would not. How on earth could any right minded Christian, help drag others to hell, by partnering with groups that blaspheme Christ, and teach damnable heresy?

    Now, if I were working with other CHRISTIAN denominations, and I was permitted to share my faith? Of course. That is "ministry."
     
    #27 Havensdad, Sep 21, 2013
  8. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    That would be a completely different topic...one worth pursuing...in another thread. :)
     
    #28 Havensdad, Sep 21, 2013
  9. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    FWIW, the Billy Graham Association does invite Catholics to participate in their crusades. So you would boycott a Billy Graham crusade. You would boycott the greatest evangelist of the 20th Century, who has probably lead more people to Christ than any man who ever lived. I just don't understand you people. You don't care about anything but your own man made dogma. You don't even go by the Bible. You make up doctrines and then try to find scripture to justify them.
     
    #29 Zenas, Sep 21, 2013
  10. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    Nothing "man made" about it. It is disgusting for you to be so disingenuous!!

    You just care more about what the world thinks, than what God thinks...


    2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
    2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?


    And your statement about Billy Graham is absolutely absurd....coaxing confessions of faith out of people, does not justify an unbiblical ministry practice.
     
    #30 Havensdad, Sep 21, 2013
  11. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I'm not offended. We think differently in a few things, this is another one.

    We partner with the world in so many things.
    I'm a member of my community.

    Would your community miss your church if it suddenly disappeared?

    I'm part of the world, but not "of it" - joining a group, even being a leader, limits me only as much as I let it.

    IMO the benefits far outweigh the costs - I'm able to witness the love of God and his saving grace to people I'd never see or meet otherwise.

    I'm only bound by my word, to participate as it fulfills the mutual purpose that we share.

    I'll try to share some scripture after Church - gotta run, setting up chairs for an outdoor baptism and church picnic today - I'm on the grill.

    Rob
     
    #31 Deacon, Sep 22, 2013
  12. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    But being a part of a community is different from being yoked together in ministry work. Would you team up with a Satanic church in ministry, just because they are "part of your community"?

    But being part of the world, is different than being "of it", yoked together with it.

    You seem to be in clear violation of 2 Corinthians 6...you said...

    "I serve with a group called "Advocates for the Homeless and People in Need", a multi-faith organization"


    I don't understand how you reconcile that with scripture..

    This seems like worldly reasoning. Ministry work is literally waiting outside your door. No one needs to partner with the enemy in order to do ministry...

    What mutual purpose? We share nothing in common.

    Grill with God, my friend.
     
    #32 Havensdad, Sep 22, 2013
  13. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    That.

    As humans and communities, there will always be common goals that need to be worked on.

    When someone is laying on the side of the road dying, we don't ask the other person walking what their theological beliefs are before we both stop and render aid together to stabilize the person in need. (nor do either of us ask the person in need) We would just do it.

    I hope.

    I read the threads on here sometimes and wonder! :tonofbricks:
     
    #33 Gina B, Sep 22, 2013
  14. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
    #34 quantumfaith, Sep 22, 2013
  15. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Is this some thinly veiled "threat" , a shot to suggest I not comment?
     
    #35 quantumfaith, Sep 22, 2013
  16. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    Not at all. I have been here a long time, and have seen how quickly things get pulled off topic. I am trying to stop this before it starts.


    I want to keep to the OP: Should we partner with unbeleivers in MINISTRY....there are a billion rabbit trails worth chasing...but it should be done in another thread.
     
    #36 Havensdad, Sep 22, 2013
  17. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    Yeah, that is completely different. We are talking about intentional ministry work. Not helping someone we just "happen" to come across. We certainly have a responsibility, as human beings, to help people in bad situations. But that is different than partnering in ministry with unbelievers.
     
    #37 Havensdad, Sep 22, 2013
  18. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    How is it different?

    Someone is about to get murdered. Because it is a lot of people and is legal and given the name of abortion does not make it different from someone on the side of the road.

    A starving person is holding out their hand in hunger. Do things change because there are many and they're not standing x amount of feet in front of x?

    How does who we partner with change based simply on the number of people who need help and where they are instead of the ability of ourselves and others to provide that help?
     
    #38 Gina B, Sep 22, 2013
  19. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    I will say it again, working together for the common good is not the same as partnering together in Christian ministry. I would not lend the name of my church to any organization or effort that denies the Gospel.
     
    #39 Herald, Sep 22, 2013
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Nor would you be expected to.
     
    #40 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 22, 2013
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