Should we partner with unbeleivers in Ministry Work??!

[JonC]

You either do not understand the Catholic religion, or you do not understand the gospel. I am going to assume that it is the former, as this is usually the case.
The Catholics do not teach salvation by faith apart from works. They salvation by merits, some which come from self, some which come from the saints, Mary, and their false version of Jesus.

You needn’t assume either (it’s usually the safe be, anyway). I think that you are correct that Catholics do not teach salvation by faith alone. They teach much about salvation through the Catholic church. My point was that the gospel is still there, beyond the false teachings, the dogma, even the “Catholic church.” This is a difference between other cults mentioned. Would I call the Catholic church “Christian”…no, I wouldn’t. There is too much departure from Christianity.

Some would argue that the CoC does teach a works based salvation because the act of baptism is the point where you are saved. I believe that they do in their teachings regarding maintaining that salvation…but that’s another issue.

 

[Gina B]

Why is this thread still going?

It really didn't require that much time for the Bible to show me I was wrong. It was less than one day.

It's there. There are lots of online commentaries to read that explain it all.

It sounds illogical and makes more sense to partner with more people, sounds like more good could be done, but it is what it is and if you think about it, how many things end up bad, misunderstood because of too much interaction with unbelievers? It's hard to stay uninfluenced, even when you think things are going fine.

Whatever the case, if it says not to, it says not to, and in going and reading it and putting it together, it says not to.

I don't claim to be a genius or anything, but that's kind of my point. It is made pretty obvious. Just read it and read the studies done on it. It's neat and should be enjoyable.

 

[Havensdad]

Why is this thread still going?

It really didn't require that much time for the Bible to show me I was wrong. It was less than one day.

It's there. There are lots of online commentaries to read that explain it all.

It sounds illogical and makes more sense to partner with more people, sounds like more good could be done, but it is what it is and if you think about it, how many things end up bad, misunderstood because of too much interaction with unbelievers? It's hard to stay uninfluenced, even when you think things are going fine.

Whatever the case, if it says not to, it says not to, and in going and reading it and putting it together, it says not to.

I don't claim to be a genius or anything, but that's kind of my point. It is made pretty obvious. Just read it and read the studies done on it. It's neat and should be enjoyable.

Good job. :thumbs:

This is EXACTLY how Bible study is supposed to work...see where we are incorrect (or just not informed) and change our views to agree with the scriptures.

It is still going, by the way, because some people like what they are doing, and do not wish to change. So they come up with all kinds of reasons why "It couldn't possibly mean THAT!"....

 

[Havensdad]

You needn’t assume either (it’s usually the safe be, anyway). I think that you are correct that Catholics do not teach salvation by faith alone. They teach much about salvation through the Catholic church. My point was that the gospel is still there, beyond the false teachings, the dogma, even the “Catholic church.” This is a difference between other cults mentioned. Would I call the Catholic church “Christian”…no, I wouldn’t. There is too much departure from Christianity.

Some would argue that the CoC does teach a works based salvation because the act of baptism is the point where you are saved. I believe that they do in their teachings regarding maintaining that salvation…but that’s another issue.

Saying that salvation is by works (which is what the Catholic "church" teaches), is the OPPOSITE of the Gospel. The gospel is not "in there" at ALL!

Catholics are unbelievers. No different than Mormons or Muslims.

 

[Havensdad]

For someone who holds such hatred toward the Catholic faith, you don't spend much time learning about it. You probably heard these things from one of your professors at the Bible college you attended, who had heard it from his professor, etc. Before you start spewing hatred for a set of beliefs, you really ought to know what they are. What you are saying here is totally false, and largely without meaning. Merits from saints, Mary and a false version of Jesus? Whatever are you talking about?

Um, official Catholic Dogma? You need to study a bit, before you start speaking. You sound foolish.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (there official beliefs, FYI)

"#1475 In the communion of saints, "a perennial link of charity exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home, those who are expiating their sins in purgatory and those who are still pilgrims on earth. Between them there is, too, an abundant exchange of all good things." In this wonderful exchange, the holiness of one profits others, well beyond the harm that the sin of one could cause others. Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#1475

I suggest in the future, you get a handle on that brain-mouth thing (or brain-keyboard).

 

[JonC]

It is still going, by the way, because some people like what they are doing, and do not wish to change. So they come up with all kinds of reasons why "It couldn't possibly mean THAT!"....

Don't be silly - we just found something else to talk about :laugh:

Saying that salvation is by works (which is what the Catholic "church" teaches), is the OPPOSITE of the Gospel. The gospel is not "in there" at ALL!
Catholics are unbelievers. No different than Mormons or Muslims.

I’m just not sure. Many here have suggested that saving faith is accompanied by works where as faith without works is useless. Some come very close, if not precisely to, the Catholic understanding of “formed faith.”

 

[webdog]

Good job. :thumbs:

This is EXACTLY how Bible study is supposed to work...see where we are incorrect (or just not informed) and change our views to agree with the scriptures.

It is still going, by the way, because some people like what they are doing, and do not wish to change. So they come up with all kinds of reasons why "It couldn't possibly mean THAT!"....

The only thing I partner with an unbeliever is my emplyment. Its still going on because you fail to understand the concept of yoking in context. Just reading some commentaries agreeing with you does not constitute agreeing with the Scriptures, thats plain silly.

 

[Yeshua1]

For someone who holds such hatred toward the Catholic faith, you don't spend much time learning about it. You probably heard these things from one of your professors at the Bible college you attended, who had heard it from his professor, etc. Before you start spewing hatred for a set of beliefs, you really ought to know what they are. What you are saying here is totally false, and largely without meaning. Merits from saints, Mary and a false version of Jesus? Whatever are you talking about?

he is correct that the church of rome is NOT a NT one, that it yteaches another, false Gospel, that it blends paganism/idolatry and religion together, but God does still manage to save some in there despite all that, and those saved by Him need to come out from among them and be seperate!

 

[Yeshua1]

Saying that salvation is by works (which is what the Catholic "church" teaches), is the OPPOSITE of the Gospel. The gospel is not "in there" at ALL!

Catholics are unbelievers. No different than Mormons or Muslims.

a catholic holding to what Rome teaches is salvation is still lost in sins, but one who holds to the real Gospel is saved, but needs to move on from there!

 

[JonC]

a catholic holding to what Rome teaches is salvation is still lost in sins, but one who holds to the real Gospel is saved, but needs to move on from there!

But many don't. Some prize their tradition over true doctrine. I know one who believes much like a Baptist - his stickler is the doctrine of transubstantiation (granted - although he considers himself Catholic he isn't really a "good Catholic"). Most Catholics I know disagree with several points of their doctrine. But the question is whether or not a Catholic who is saved can remain "Catholic" or if adhering to false dogma would negate their salvation even if they actually hold to a true gospel. So yes, they should move on - but what if they don't? I understand that we can question their spiritual maturity and obedience, but I do not know that we should be willing to question their salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

But many don't. Some prize their tradition over true doctrine. I know one who believes much like a Baptist - his stickler is the doctrine of transubstantiation (granted - although he considers himself Catholic he isn't really a "good Catholic"). Most Catholics I know disagree with several points of their doctrine. But the question is whether or not a Catholic who is saved can remain "Catholic" or if adhering to false dogma would negate their salvation even if they actually hold to a true gospel. So yes, they should move on - but what if they don't? I understand that we can question their spiritual maturity and obedience, but I do not know that we should be willing to question their salvation.

They would still be saved in your scenerio, but would either in an ignorant or willful way, be living in disobedient state before the Lord!

Cannot serve 2 masters, either fully accept the truth and leave, or esle stay and be a fully commited catholic!