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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Havensdad, Sep 21, 2013.

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  1. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    Yeah....that is just a silly way to avoid my question.

    A person who has faith in Jesus, IS NOT a Muslim.

    Again, IS a muslim saved (not, "Can they be saved if they trust in Jesus instead of Islam)?
     
    #121 Havensdad, Sep 24, 2013
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    yes, so are catholics/JW/mormons ANY who werre sinners and were receivng The real jesus as their Lord and Saviour will be saved!
     
    #122 Yeshua1, Sep 24, 2013
  3. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected New Member

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    What part of "renounce and separate from Islam" did you fail to grasp?
     
    #123 thisnumbersdisconnected, Sep 24, 2013
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Nuh-uh, you don't. Childish.


    Danger?! Your soteriology teaches this faith is a gift, what can be dangerous about a gift from God?


    News flash. Bragging about your weakness is no different than what you accuse me of. You still retain the title of False Dichotomy King, btw.

    He told me not to do it...He probably knows more than me. :)



    You just keep believing that while working on your acting skills.
     
    #124 webdog, Sep 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2013
  5. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    It was childish of you to say it in the first place, yes... "If you were just smart like me, you would understand"

    ROFL>

    So? Everything I have is a gift from God; it is still DANGEROUS and FOOLISH to trust in those things.

    For you to say that a person should not be a pastor, because they don't rely on their "strong faith" to preserve them through situations that God says to avoid in the first place, is the statement of a very foolish, immature man. If you wish to argue about "who has better faith" I suggest you go elsewhere.


    Yeah. Cause admitting your weakness is exactly equivalent to bragging about your strength.... try again, my immature friend. :rolleyes:



    Nice. And now you attack me personally. Could you please find someone else to argue with?
     
    #125 Havensdad, Sep 24, 2013
  6. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    Muslims are not saved. They "can be" saved if they renounce Islam and CEASE being a Muslim....

    Muslims are NOT saved.
     
    #126 Havensdad, Sep 24, 2013
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Nobody here is as smart as you.


    .Possibly the dumbest thing I've heard...its dangerous to trust an eternal gift. Just...wow.
    Correction...YOU said to avoid them as that is YOUR understanding of the text. The Bible says to trust in God, the author and perfector of my faith. Its sad you cannot do the same.



    Only a fool would not understand anything done with the wrong intention is sin. Trying to shame me for trusting in God and the faith He bestowed on me was done from impure intentions.



    Yeah...nothing you said was an attack, hypocrite.
     
    #127 webdog, Sep 24, 2013
  8. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    Then go find someone else to argue with... :)


    Trust in the Lord with all your heart
    and lean not on your own understanding;
    6 in all your ways submit to him,
    and he will make your paths straight

    Yeah, that whole Bible thing...you can ignore that.

    No, God says to avoid them. "Do not partner with unbelievers" is unbelievably, exceedingly clear.

    Sad that you tout your "strong faith", yet you cannot trust such simple words. "I can do it!"....reminds me of someone else's boast....

    Mat 26:33 Peter answered him, "Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away."


    Wow. You have the spiritual gift of mind reading. Interesting.

    "Faith" is not some gooshy feeling. "Faith" is trusting in, and submitting to what God has said. Since God said "Come out from them" and "do not partner with unbelievers" it is UNFAITHFULNESS to do otherwise...despite how great you think your "faith" is...


    No doubt I am a hypocrite. But I have not engaged in personal attacks against your person (i.e. "Wow that beard looks stupid.")
     
    #128 Havensdad, Sep 24, 2013
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We agree...

    They are Muslims at the time of salvation, but will renounce and forsake the false religion of the false prophet of islam!
     
    #129 Yeshua1, Sep 25, 2013
  10. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    No, we DON'T agree, apparently, unless I am misunderstanding you.

    A turn to Christ, is a turning TO Christ for salvation, and at the same time turning AWAY from, and abandoning Islam. You cannot be a Muslim and a Christian, at the same time, even for a moment. Being a saved Christian, and being a Muslim, are contradictory beliefs that cannot be simultaneously held..

    Do you agree with that? Yes, no?
     
    #130 Havensdad, Sep 25, 2013
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I am saying that a muslim receives Jesus as their Lord/Saviour, born again, and no longer is a Muslim, follower of Allaf and the false prophet, but of the true Messiah Jesus!

    he went up to Mecca a pagan, came back a Christian, and renouncer of islam!
     
    #131 Yeshua1, Sep 25, 2013
  12. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    So, you would never say "Maybe their are some practicing muslims, who are ACTUALLY saved Christian"? Right?

    If so, why on earth would you say that of Catholics?
     
    #132 Havensdad, Sep 25, 2013
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No one who holds to the tenants of islam are saved, but there are some catholic who despite their bad doctrines are saved, as they really hold to salvation as grace alone faith alone, but are not able to fully realise that they need to leave 'mother church!"
     
    #133 Yeshua1, Sep 25, 2013
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Catholic doctrine does contain the gospel. But it is buried under false doctrine, tradition, dogma, and superstition. I’d have to agree that one could believe the gospel but still hold on to false doctrines only because it is not doctrine external to the actual gospel that saves…but I don’t really see how. Perhaps it’s holding on to the church as a final authority or interpreter of Scripture where as we Baptists consider the Word of God as our authority.


    Many here would say a CoC member couldn’t remain CoC if saved because baptism regeneration is a false doctrine – but it is not a “false gospel” as they don’t believe baptism saves.
     
    #134 JonC, Sep 25, 2013
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    would see it as there are many in the church of Rome who are ignornat to the real meaning and doctrines that rome has, so to them, eucheriest is a communion, baptising a rite just done as tradition, but they still see jesus as only way to get saved!

    They are ow saved, andno longer really hold to traditional catholic teachings/doctrine, so
    They need to come out of that church !
     
    #135 Yeshua1, Sep 25, 2013
  16. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    You either do not understand the Catholic religion, or you do not understand the gospel. I am going to assume that it is the former, as this is usually the case.

    The Catholics do not teach salvation by faith apart from works. They salvation by merits, some which come from self, some which come from the saints, Mary, and their false version of Jesus.


    I would not be one of them. CoC does not teach works based salvation. Instead, they teach baptism as a means by which men trust in Christ. It is roughly equivalent to the "sinner's prayer" silliness which some Baptists hold to (as in, "You can believe all you want, but until you have 'prayed the prayer' of salvation, you aren't saved"). Dumb doctrine, wrong doctrine, but not a "different gospel" like the Catholics and Mormons teach.
     
    #136 Havensdad, Sep 25, 2013
  17. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    #137 Havensdad, Sep 25, 2013
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Don't you hold that salvation os a gift from God, that He chooses unto whom Grace is applied towards, and that salvation is not at all based upon what church attending, what that church holds to etc?

    rome teaches another false Gpsel, but salvation can and does come to some there, despite that!

    I would say that while in RCC, sinners have been saved apart from Rome teaching, but once saved, need to come out from there!
     
    #138 Yeshua1, Sep 25, 2013
  19. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    The Catholics I know, most certainly do not believe in a works based salvation, perhaps you are being entirely too broad.

    http://protestantnomore.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/what-do-catholics-really-believe-about-salvation/
     
    #139 quantumfaith, Sep 25, 2013
  20. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    For someone who holds such hatred toward the Catholic faith, you don't spend much time learning about it. You probably heard these things from one of your professors at the Bible college you attended, who had heard it from his professor, etc. Before you start spewing hatred for a set of beliefs, you really ought to know what they are. What you are saying here is totally false, and largely without meaning. Merits from saints, Mary and a false version of Jesus? Whatever are you talking about?
     
    #140 Zenas, Sep 25, 2013
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