Should we partner with unbeleivers in Ministry Work??!

[Havensdad]

How is it different?

Someone is about to get murdered. Because it is a lot of people and is legal and given the name of abortion does not make it different from someone on the side of the road.

A starving person is holding out their hand in hunger. Do things change because there are many and they're not standing x amount of feet in front of x?

How does who we partner with change based simply on the number of people who need help and where they are instead of the ability of ourselves and others to provide that help?

It is completely different, because if someone is on the side of the road, I do not go round up pagans to help me care for them and minister to them. If someone is hungry, I don't go, "I need a bunch of satanists to help me feed them." I FEED them, or I get brothers and sisters in Christ to help feed them.


You are confusing issues. Its one thing if I HELP an unbeliever, it is another thing if I PARTNER with unbelievers..

Scripture is clear that we help everyone; but we only PARTNER with believers.

 

[Deacon]

You seem to be in clear violation of 2 Corinthians 6...you said...

"I serve with a group called "Advocates for the Homeless and People in Need", a multi-faith organization"


I don't understand how you reconcile that with scripture..

As I write this and expand my position I see that perhaps my example doesn't fit the opening posts "unbelievers" definition well. I called "Advocates" a "multi-faith" organization, the mission statement uses the term "interfaith".

"Advocates for Homeless & Those in Need (AHTN) is a Bucks County interfaith nonprofit organization providing temporary help to the homeless and those in need by offering with dignity and compassion emergency shelter, food, clothing and other related services."

http://www.advocates4homeless.org/home
By "multi-faith" I did not mean differing faiths (i.e. Muslim, Hindu, Atheist) but "many of like-minded faith"; the participating churches have all chosen to broadly-define our yoke of agreement rather than weaken the organization by focusing on our particular sharply-defined doctrinal disagreements. I guess that makes a BIG difference. Mia culpa.

In 1 Corinthians 5:9–10 Paul makes it clear that we are not to associate with immoral brothers but goes on to say that we should settle internal disputes in a wise manner to benefit the body of Christ. None of these groups would qualify as immoral. We have overlooked our differences to strengthen the body and our witness to the world.

Advocates for the Homeless consists of Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists [perhaps even a Unitarian group], all participating the leadership mix. All the groups profess a foundational belief in the salvation offered by Jesus alone (but as I noted, some of the individuals that serve may not have a saving faith in our Savoir). Because we all identify ourselves as members of a faith community, we are free to share our faith among those whom we work with in a friendly manner. [Some of the churches that participate are less evangelically-minded than others (and far more socially-minded) and so there are a number of volunteers that do not have a saving relationship with Jesus.] In this instance we are joined with them in a working relationship akin to that mentioned by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:12-15, a wife with an unbelieving husband.

Rob

 

[Gina B]

Where on earth does it say anything about social causes only being something we should work on with only with other believers?

I know it says fellowship with other believers and once a week, take a break from the world to be among other believers to be renewed, restored, and away from the world before going at it again. That spiritually, we are to be separated. That speaks to my spiritual life. It says for a believer to not marry an unbeliever, for the sake of my spiritual life. The gathering of saints together away from unbelievers - obviously for believers. Marriage to someone else? Obviously says to marry a fellow believer.

I have never seen anything that says not to work together with unbelievers. Everything is a ministry. A cause. Reaching out to the hungry, the sick, the poor. There are those that do it in the name of Christ and it isn't real and doesn't count, and those that do it unknowingly.

Seems to me that separating ministry from our lives and the church is kinda crazy. Don't our entire lives become a ministry once we become believers? Wouldn't separating ourselves from unbelievers in our ministry end up secluding us from doing much good anywhere, even having a normal job...unless we end up doing something wild and crazy, like, oh say...selling all we have, giving the proceeds to the poor, living together, then going out into the world and spreading the word, living in faith that our needs for survival would somehow be provided?

 

[Havensdad]

As I write this and expand my position I see that perhaps my example doesn't fit the opening posts "unbelievers" definition well. I called "Advocates" a "multi-faith" organization, the mission statement uses the term "interfaith".
http://www.advocates4homeless.org/home
By "multi-faith" I did not mean differing faiths (i.e. Muslim, Hindu, Atheist) but "many of like-minded faith"; the participating churches have all chosen to broadly-define our yoke of agreement rather than weaken the organization by focusing on our particular sharply-defined doctrinal disagreements. I guess that makes a BIG difference. Mia culpa.

In 1 Corinthians 5:9–10 Paul makes it clear that we are not to associate with immoral brothers but goes on to say that we should settle internal disputes in a wise manner to benefit the body of Christ. None of these groups would qualify as immoral. We have overlooked our differences to strengthen the body and our witness to the world.

Advocates for the Homeless consists of Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists [perhaps even a Unitarian group], all participating the leadership mix. All the groups profess a foundational belief in the salvation offered by Jesus alone (but as I noted, some of the individuals that serve may not have a saving faith in our Savoir). Because we all identify ourselves as members of a faith community, we are free to share our faith among those whom we work with in a friendly manner. [Some of the churches that participate are less evangelically-minded than others (and far more socially-minded) and so there are a number of volunteers that do not have a saving relationship with Jesus.] In this instance we are joined with them in a working relationship akin to that mentioned by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:12-15, a wife with an unbelieving husband.

Rob

Well that is a substantively different matter! I have no problem partnering with Lutherans or Presbyterians. Unitarians is another story, but I don't know the specifics in your particular situation.

 

[Havensdad]

Where on earth does it say anything about social causes only being something we should work on with only with other believers?

I know it says fellowship with other believers and once a week, take a break from the world to be among other believers to be renewed, restored, and away from the world before going at it again. That spiritually, we are to be separated. That speaks to my spiritual life. It says for a believer to not marry an unbeliever, for the sake of my spiritual life. The gathering of saints together away from unbelievers - obviously for believers. Marriage to someone else? Obviously says to marry a fellow believer.

I have never seen anything that says not to work together with unbelievers. Everything is a ministry. A cause. Reaching out to the hungry, the sick, the poor. There are those that do it in the name of Christ and it isn't real and doesn't count, and those that do it unknowingly.

Seems to me that separating ministry from our lives and the church is kinda crazy. Don't our entire lives become a ministry once we become believers? Wouldn't separating ourselves from unbelievers in our ministry end up secluding us from doing much good anywhere, even having a normal job...unless we end up doing something wild and crazy, like, oh say...selling all we have, giving the proceeds to the poor, living together, then going out into the world and spreading the word, living in faith that our needs for survival would somehow be provided?

Gina, SCRIPTURE says not to partner with unbelievers....

2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


That is exceedingly clear.

 

[annsni]

I'm going to be working the booth for Compassion at the Michael W. Smith concert in a week and a half. I guess I need to ask them for the names and e-mails of everyone else I'm working with to see if they are saved......

If I'm doing ministry work to spread the Gospel, yes, I'm going to work with believers. If I'm doing ministry work to clean up the home of a neighbor who had damage from a storm, I don't care what the beliefs are of those around me - I'll grab the other side of the couch no matter what.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm going to be working the booth for Compassion at the Michael W. Smith concert in a week and a half. I guess I need to ask them for the names and e-mails of everyone else I'm working with to see if they are saved......

If I'm doing ministry work to spread the Gospel, yes, I'm going to work with believers. If I'm doing ministry work to clean up the home of a neighbor who had damage from a storm, I don't care what the beliefs are of those around me - I'll grab the other side of the couch no matter what.

LOL....:thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My brother shared a story with me when he was a Yute Pastor back in PA several years ago. He & his Senior Pastor were going to a big meeting & seminar for the local churches & of course there were speakers they listened to & so when it was time to break for lunch they had this cafeteria style buffet. My brother gets his food & then looks for a place to sit down & a few guys at a table wave him over...they had a free seat so he sits down, has his lunch & chats with the fellows at the table....nothing heavy mind you ...just light conversation.

Well he gets done & reconnects with the Senior Pastor who takes him aside & reams him out for having conversation with "Those People".....apparently those guys were Reformed Baptists & he was told point blank that the Lord would NOT BLESS Him & the Church for connecting with those reformed pastors....could you imagine that! Heaven forbid they had been Primitive Baptists, the roof would have caved in & lightning would have struck him dead. :laugh:

 

[Zaac]

Primary separation is an important theological position that has long been upheld by evangelicals. It think it continues to be important.

Unfortunately it sometimes only tends to be important if it meets our desires.

I believe God's word is veryclear that we should NOT do this.

Scripture tells us in 2 Cor. 6:14 14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

If you have joined in PARTNERSHIP with an unbeliever , there will be confusion about your beliefs.

It breeds confusion about what you really stand for.

For the sake of social and political issues we often times feel like it's okay. But we should not feel as though we're serving the greater good by disobeying what God says to do no matter how "favorable" for us outcome it gets.

 

[Zaac]

I think you got it about right. Another area of cooperation might be disaster assistance. The concept of primary or secondary separation cannot be found in the Bible.

Again, what would be the purpose in a Christian organization partnering with an a non-Christian organization to do this? Some may be confused as to the motives if we do this. Is it your love for Christ and thus for others out of the overflow or is it just because it's the purpose of the non-Christian organization.

Our purpose is to witness Christ to open a platform to preach the Gospel that saves.

Scripture says do not partner. How complicated is that?

 

[Zaac]

The key word in the OP is "partner". What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor. 6:14)?

We should not partner with unbelievers in Christian ministry, although we can participate in those things that benefit the common good. I had some involvement in the Hurricane Sandy relief effort. The other individuals involved with the specific area I participated in where not all Christians. IMHO that does not equal partnering in Christian ministry.

Agreed. There should never be any misconstruement that that which is joined with Christ has attempted to join with something outside of Christ.

We may be working toward the same end, but we don't have to throw our efforts underneath your umbrella to do so as the motives for what we're doing will be completely different from the motive of the non-believer.

 

[Zaac]

I'm going to be working the booth for Compassion at the Michael W. Smith concert in a week and a half. I guess I need to ask them for the names and e-mails of everyone else I'm working with to see if they are saved......

If I'm doing ministry work to spread the Gospel, yes, I'm going to work with believers. If I'm doing ministry work to clean up the home of a neighbor who had damage from a storm, I don't care what the beliefs are of those around me - I'll grab the other side of the couch no matter what.

That's not a yoking. You're not bound by what the neighbor does.

 

[Zaac]

Not at all. I have been here a long time, and have seen how quickly things get pulled off topic. I am trying to stop this before it starts.


I want to keep to the OP: Should we partner with unbeleivers in MINISTRY....there are a billion rabbit trails worth chasing...but it should be done in another thread.

Excellent distinction to make.

 

[annsni]

That's not a yoking. You're not bound by what the neighbor does.

How about hosting a blood drive at your church?

 

[Gina B]

I've been reading through different commentaries on the matter, and they really do make excellent points and connections between other scripture.

I think I might be really wrong on this. If you look at the chapter alone, it's easy to think it's just a matter of not being offensive to others and doing good, standing out as separate by your works, but when you connect it with other passages, even the old testament stuff for Jews that seem not to make sense for now but are completed (and now I can see that one in this! Really, don't put together an ox and a donkey fits here? Cool! ) and it all comes together, it really does seem connected to a lot more than just that.

Gonna go read more...thanks for the study for today! This is fun. For weirdos like me. LOL

 

[Zaac]

How about hosting a blood drive at your church?

How about hosting a KKK meeting at the church? I think the church understands what yoking is.

 

[Zaac]

I've been reading through different commentaries on the matter, and they really do make excellent points and connections between other scripture.

I think I might be really wrong on this. If you look at the chapter alone, it's easy to think it's just a matter of not being offensive to others and doing good, standing out as separate by your works, but when you connect it with other passages, even the old testament stuff for Jews that seem not to make sense for now but are completed (and now I can see that one in this! Really, don't put together an ox and a donkey fits here? Cool! ) and it all comes together, it really does seem connected to a lot more than just that.

Gonna go read more...thanks for the study for today! This is fun. For weirdos like me. LOL

It really is fascinating Gina when we start to see those big pictures and why contrary to what we may see as positive, why God gives a command to not do certain things.

We may think it's a good idea to partner with a non-christian group or to throw our support behind something in such a way that it is essentially a partnership. But just as God told the Israelites to not mix with those who worshiped false gods, we've been told to not yoke to unbelievers for the same reason.

 

[Yeshua1]

Primary separation is an important theological position that has long been upheld by evangelicals. It think it continues to be important.

churches can come together to take action against say abortion, or gay rights, such as between catholics and evangelical, but that would be social agenda issues both agree on, but NOT to have inter faith prayers and evangelism/missions, as that would imply all were having same Gospel and Christ!

 

[Havensdad]

churches can come together to take action against say abortion, or gay rights, such as between catholics and evangelical, but that would be social agenda issues both agree on, but NOT to have inter faith prayers and evangelism/missions, as that would imply all were having same Gospel and Christ!

I disagree. Since all is to be done, NOT to get results, but for "the Glory of God" (1 Corinthian 10:31) and for the "building up" of the church 14:26), mere agreement on secondary issues is not sufficient.

If it is a function of the CHURCH, and not of an individual, then it is by definition a "ministry" and churches should NOT partner w/ unbelievers in ministry!

 

[Yeshua1]

I disagree. Since all is to be done, NOT to get results, but for "the Glory of God" (1 Corinthian 10:31) and for the "building up" of the church 14:26), mere agreement on secondary issues is not sufficient.

If it is a function of the CHURCH, and not of an individual, then it is by definition a "ministry" and churches should NOT partner w/ unbelievers in ministry!

So you saying that it would be acceptable if individual members say were in a prayer march over abortion, but if the pastor came and announced that his church was part of the march, would be wrong?

isn't the seperation to be done along line of doctrines , NOT social issues that different churches can agree on are wrong?