should women be ordained?

[Scarlett O.]

Where does your vitriol come from?

Well, if I had any vitriol towards you, I could answer that question. But being as I have not displayed any bitterness towards you, your quesion is not answerable.

The only conversation that I have had with you is that I wondered why there was so much emotionalism necessary is explaining that one doesn't want a woman to baptize anyone.

And the reply that I received was to keep my train on my own track.

No vitriol there.

Now, two people here have suggested that you are a troll and that you and LOV are one-in-the-same person. I merely agreed and told why I thought that.

No vitriol there either.

Indeed did I not preface the statement you accurately quote with: "As the proud husband of this brilliant woman...." I think you wish that your husband would once refer to you like this...

I am quite aware of my own brilliance, but thank you for your concern nonetheless. :laugh:

 

[seekingthetruth]

Yes....but the Jesus that saved them by sovereign grace is in the bible,and they obeyed God's teaching on how to learn about Him....by catechisms

blah blah blah

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Good observation. Most likely a troll

That is dissapointing ...... really dissapointing..... you are disparraging someone.... Lilly's FIRST POST on BB was to start a new thread... I advised her against doing so... yet, I forbade it not.... what is so rare about a woman who loves, respects, follows the advise of, and reveres the teaching of her husband.......???
This is TRULY a Damned society if this is your default view.... this is sick and sad.... We have a Biblical home....Lilly married a man who actually gave a hoot about what the Scriptures do or do not teach (I was a licsensed practising preacher BTW) before we started dating. I am, again, the pastor of my Home, your personal failure to achieve that is YOUR personal failure not mine.

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon, do you also place as much emphasis on the verse 8?

Yes....
8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.



Yes...men are to lead in prayer.....he is showing how we must conduct ourselves in the church of God;

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:

15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

When it says "thou oughtest"...it is the same word used elsewhere for MUST...

Ye MUST be born from above
I MUST abide at your house....

So Paul directs by the Spirit...Men leading in prayer, Men in the pulpit,prayer being made for ALL men, etc..

Woman....9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

 

[Iconoclast]

blah blah blah

Interesting...have not seen you take up the challenge I offered you...re-write these paragraphs and improve upon it....
Show your biblical acumen.....show how evil the 1689 confession of faith is!!

Chapter 13: Of Sanctification
1._____ They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally, through the same virtue, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified, and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of all true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
( Acts 20:32; Romans 6:5, 6; John 17:17; Ephesians 3:16-19; 1 Thessalonians 5:21-23; Romans 6:14; Galatians 5:24; Colossians 1:11; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Hebrews 12:14 )
2._____This sanctification is throughout the whole man, yet imperfect in this life; there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part, whence ariseth a continual and irreconcilable war; the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.
( 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Romans 7:18, 23; Galatians 5:17; 1 Peter 2:11 )

3._____ In which war, although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail, yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part doth overcome; and so the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God, pressing after an heavenly life, in evangelical obedience to all the commands which Christ as Head and King, in His Word hath prescribed them.
( Romans 7:23; Romans 6:14; Ephesians 4:15, 16; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1 )

 

[HeirofSalvation]

OH, Icon:

In case you were not aware of it: although I do like to hear your opinions about things.... this particular thread was initially designed to take the "women should be ordained pastors" heretics away from my wife...."Lilly of the Valleys" initial thread about baptism.... I think she and I both would like to hear your opinion about this......Her initial thread politely asked all "pro-woman-ordination" to NOT respond..... naturally, they did.... why wouldn't they..... Thus she created the women ordination thread to take them away from her initial thread.... We would love to hear what you think about the topic.....LOL...we are being accused of being trolls on this.....well.... if anyone actually read Lilly's initial thread....this ENTIRE THREAD was designed to chase away the trolls who were co-opting the question we/she had.....anyway... if you have anything to add to the "should women baptize other women" post I do invite you to please respond.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Beware folks. Methinks LOV & HOS are one and the same. Don't get too caught up with these two, just my humble advise.

NO, you are simply wrong... just simply wrong.... what is so hard to imagine about a man and a wife who both think similarly about many things???? your personal failure to have a biblically prescribed home is again your failure... you are simply so wrong.... this is sick.......sick and sad....

 

[Skandelon]

Should women be ordained?

Ordained for what? What about a woman chaplain who works in a women's prison? Should she receive prayer and recognition from the church for her calling to her full-time ministry vocation? Sure, why not?

What about a children's minister? Should a male children's minister receive more acknowledgment, prayer, and tax benefits than a woman called to do the same ministry? I think not.

Is ordination really a biblical concept meant only for males in ministry? If so, where does scripture ever say that? Isn't ordination simply the church's acknowledgment of one's calling, giftedness and commitment to pray and support them in that ministry? Why would we do that for every gender?

It appears the issue of headship is a completely different question, yet some seem to equate the two.

 

[Iconoclast]

OH, Icon:

In case you were not aware of it: although I do like to hear your opinions about things.... this particular thread was initially designed to take the "women should be ordained pastors" heretics away from my wife...."Lilly of the Valleys" initial thread about baptism.... I think she and I both would like to hear your opinion about this......Her initial thread politely asked all "pro-woman-ordination" to NOT respond..... naturally, they did.... why wouldn't they..... Thus she created the women ordination thread to take them away from her initial thread.... We would love to hear what you think about the topic.....LOL...we are being accused of being trolls on this.....well.... if anyone actually read Lilly's initial thread....this ENTIRE THREAD was designed to chase away the trolls who were co-opting the question we/she had.....anyway... if you have anything to add to the "should women baptize other women" post I do invite you to please respond.

Point taken...I did not intend to derail the thread...but I took ST's post as a desperate cry for help...so I offered him some of the confession he secretly loves to help him.....sorry to derial this effort:thumbs::wavey: carry on..i must needs drive now..lol

 

[annsni]

Women can be ordained to the ministry but not to be in a role that the Bible prohibits. Actually, when my husband was ordained, we BOTH were brought before the church with the elders practicing the laying on of hands and prayer for the ordination. Here is the photograph"

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Point taken...I did not intend to derail the thread...but I took ST's post as a desperate cry for help...so I offered him some of the confession he secretly loves to help him.....sorry to derial this effort:thumbs::wavey: carry on..i must needs drive now..lol

You derailed nothing... this was a thread designed specifically to get the liberal heretics to bite away from my wife's legit thread... (about women baptizing)... when you get a chance...would love to see if you have any input on this one... it ain't an easy one...Seriously, I am never easy on you, but I would like to hear wha' cha' gots ter say 'bout somefin' we doan' claim to ha' all figgered out!!!!! Be safe.... and watch out fer de motorcycles....like mine:thumbs:

 

[seekingthetruth]

Point taken...I did not intend to derail the thread...but I took ST's post as a desperate cry for help...so I offered him some of the confession he secretly loves to help him.....sorry to derial this effort:thumbs::wavey: carry on..i must needs drive now..lol

Come on Icon

I am not cryiing for help, I am questioning your faith in the words of men instead of the words of God.

Get over yourself

if I was needing help you would be the last person I would seek it from

John

 

[SolaSaint]

Absolutely not!

but, that is the excuse every "female pastor" I have ever question used.

John

I think everyone is taking my post to mean women are taking advantage of a lack of qualified men. I meant it to show the lack of good Godly men today in our churches and out of necessity women are forced to take roles that men should be filling. Some of the Baptist churches I've been at had women teaching because there were no men who would step up. Are teaching positions to go unfilled if no man will teach? Just asking!

 

[Thousand Hills]

I think everyone is taking my post to mean women are taking advantage of a lack of qualified men. I meant it to show the lack of good Godly men today in our churches and out of necessity women are forced to take roles that men should be filling. Some of the Baptist churches I've been at had women teaching because there were no men who would step up. Are teaching positions to go unfilled if no man will teach? Just asking!

I agree with you, I think Iconoclast gave the reason why, even though he was not answering your post.

You might be correct....in the day and age in which we live that many baptists do despise solid biblical cathechisms and confessions of faith.

That is why biblical ignorance is at an all time high.....we have more bibles now , in more versions than ever before. I have heard many a fundementalist say...I am standing on my bible.......it would be better if they stepped off it,and actually opened it and began to read it.

Many as you say will not obey God...in learning in this way. That being said,as more baptists turn away from todays new age novelties....eventually some discover that the historic confessions had it right for the most part, and the puritans actually read and understood their bibles ..

 

[seekingthetruth]

I think everyone is taking my post to mean women are taking advantage of a lack of qualified men. I meant it to show the lack of good Godly men today in our churches and out of necessity women are forced to take roles that men should be filling. Some of the Baptist churches I've been at had women teaching because there were no men who would step up. Are teaching positions to go unfilled if no man will teach? Just asking!

No, that's all I can say

John

 

[HeirofSalvation]

I think everyone is taking my post to mean women are taking advantage of a lack of qualified men. I meant it to show the lack of good Godly men today in our churches and out of necessity women are forced to take roles that men should be filling. Some of the Baptist churches I've been at had women teaching because there were no men who would step up. Are teaching positions to go unfilled if no man will teach? Just asking!

Your point is well taken, absolutely correct,:thumbs: I see for instance the story of Deborah and Barack... God called the man...he wussed out....Debbie however had the "intestinal fortitude" to get the job done....so God used, and subsequently magnified her in the eyes of all of us for generations......And it took Jael to put the spike in Sisera's head!!!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

OH, Icon:

In case you were not aware of it: although I do like to hear your opinions about things.... this particular thread was initially designed to take the "women should be ordained pastors" heretics away from my wife...."Lilly of the Valleys" initial thread about baptism.... I think she and I both would like to hear your opinion about this......Her initial thread politely asked all "pro-woman-ordination" to NOT respond..... naturally, they did.... why wouldn't they..... Thus she created the women ordination thread to take them away from her initial thread.... We would love to hear what you think about the topic.....LOL...we are being accused of being trolls on this.....well.... if anyone actually read Lilly's initial thread....this ENTIRE THREAD was designed to chase away the trolls who were co-opting the question we/she had.....anyway... if you have anything to add to the "should women baptize other women" post I do invite you to please respond.

And since you consider me a heretic, this is the only reply by me that you'll get in this dishonest thread.

 

[Iconoclast]

Come on Icon

I am not cryiing for help, I am questioning your faith in the words of men instead of the words of God.

Get over yourself

if I was needing help you would be the last person I would seek it from

John

John....

We will meet sometime in person.I will bring my bible with me.I do not think you will be disappointed and will see that I have some knowledge of the word of God.
John.....I believe you have not thought this through enough.Let me say it this way......Are you saying that if a godly man has studied the word and taught others for years,comes to your church and teaches a seminar......you would not delight to hear the word of God opened up????

If godly men get together and write a confession of faith...they write it down for us...as a guide and help.....to understand scripture.....you do not delight in that???? they are all about God and His word:wavey:

I will post the link for the 1689 confession of faith.....notice the first section is about SCRIPTURE.....tell me what you think these men did not get right?

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html

If you do not want my help, that is okay....there are many better qualified persons than me to help.I do not go anywhere where someone does not like the word being opened.:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

You derailed nothing... this was a thread designed specifically to get the liberal heretics to bite away from my wife's legit thread... (about women baptizing)... when you get a chance...would love to see if you have any input on this one... it ain't an easy one...Seriously, I am never easy on you, but I would like to hear wha' cha' gots ter say 'bout somefin' we doan' claim to ha' all figgered out!!!!! Be safe.... and watch out fer de motorcycles....like mine:thumbs:

HOS,
Overall as I responded to crabtown.....I believe we are given sufficient instuction on how the church should function 1Tim 3:14-15

God has always given His people instruction

9According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it

40And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount

The same holds true in the Nt....Male headship, male leadership....
baptism is an ordinance of the Church....it is not up to us to just do what ever we feel like.....

I do not buy into this obsession to modify all the services,and how things are carried out. preaching as ordained by God still stands...

 

[seekingthetruth]

John....

We will meet sometime in person.I will bring my bible with me.I do not think you will be disappointed and will see that I have some knowledge of the word of God.
John.....I believe you have not thought this through enough.Let me say it this way......Are you saying that if a godly man has studied the word and taught others for years,comes to your church and teaches a seminar......you would not delight to hear the word of God opened up????

If godly men get together and write a confession of faith...they write it down for us...as a guide and help.....to understand scripture.....you do not delight in that???? they are all about God and His word:wavey:

I will post the link for the 1689 confession of faith.....notice the first section is about SCRIPTURE.....tell me what you think these men did not get right?


I do listen to godly men, but my theology does not revolve around them.

Are you sure you arent Catholic?

You sure do appear to be.

John

If you do not want my help, that is okay....there are many better qualified persons than me to help.I do not go anywhere where someone does not like the word being opened.:thumbs:

I do listen to godly men, but my theology does not revolve around them.

Are you sure you arent Catholic?

You sure do appear to be.

John