SIN TO DEATH

[SavedByGrace]

You didn't say this to me but it's appropriate that I respond to it because if no one else on this thread has done so, I most certainly have addressed the passages that you quoted in the OP.

Your only response so far is to pretend like you don't see my point. I invite you to read my post again or else stop complaining about people not addressing your argument.

For starters the god that you believe in is NOT the God of the Bible.

You have placed human limitations on His Omniscience and reduced Him to the level of created humans!

Your theology will therefore be Biblically unsound

 

[CJP69]

For starters the god that you believe in is NOT the God of the Bible.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

You have placed human limitations on His Omniscience and reduced Him to the level of created humans!

Nonsense. I have done no such thing. I believe what the bible teaches about God's attributes, nothing more nothing less.

Your theology will therefore be Biblically unsound

It is your doctrine that is flagrantly unbiblical when it comes to God's attributes, since you find it necessary to depart from the topic of your own thread. Your doctrines are based on Greek doctrines, not biblical ones and I can prove it and am not afraid to do so, here and now on this thread or at any time or thread of your choosing.

You, on the other hand, won't do anything but be insulting and dismissive and will be perpetually the opposite of substantive because you know that am not bluffing.

 

[robycop3]

Matthew 12:32-home generators

Sin To Death

“These things I have written to you who believe in the Name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him. If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death” (1 John 5:13-17)

Firstly, it is very clear from this passage, that these words are addressed directly to born-again believers, and not to the whole world. We read, “you who believe in the Name of the Son of God”, and, “you have eternal life”, and, “if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us”, and, “brother”. All of this can only be used for a truly saved person.

Secondly, it is also clear, that a saved person (brother/sister), can commit “a sin leading to death”. The context is “eternal life”, which makes this “death”, spiritual, and not physical.

Thirdly, this “spiritual death” that a born-again Christian commits, is so grave, that John says that there is no point in seeking the Lord’s forgiveness, as it is not possible.

Fourthly, John does not give any further details on what this “sin to [eternal] death” is.

Fifthly, we must look elsewhere in the Bible to understand what John means. On passage that will shed some light on what John is saying, is Hebrews chapter 10, verses 18-31:

“Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness to enter the sanctuary through the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that He has inaugurated for us, through the curtain (that is, His flesh); and since we have a great high priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water. Let us hold on to the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works, not staying away from our meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near. For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries. If anyone disregards Moses' law, he dies without mercy, based on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think one will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God, regarded as profane the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know the One who has said, Vengeance belongs to Me, I will repay, and again, The Lord will judge His people. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God”

The language here is very clear, that none of it refers to an unsaved person, or, a casual or professing “believer”; but, rather to a person who has been truly converted, and “sanctified” by God the Holy Spirit. Some of these, as is also clear, can indeed fall into a state of spiritual rebellion, and thereby insult the Holy Spirit, Who gave them the new Birth.

Another passage, is also from Hebrews chapter 3, where we read:

“Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away (Greek, aphístēmi, to revolt, depart from, withdraw) from the Living God: but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called Today; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin: for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end: while it is said, Today if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses? And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into His rest, but to them that were disobedient? And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief” (verses 12-19)

Again, the language used here can only be for a truly saved person. It is clear that a truly saved person can so “back-slide” from the Lord, that they have an “evil heart of unbelief”, that results in them “falling away from the Living God”. They are clearly deceived by their sinfulness, which causes their saved hearts to become hardened towards the Lord, and the prompting of the Holy Spirit. These are warned that they are disobedient to the Lord, and that the result of this disobedience, is that they will “not enter into His rest”, which is here eternal life. Their sinfulness is so serious, that their once “belief” turns into “unbelief”. They are encouraged to “hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end”, which says that there is a real danger that this can be lost.

Jesus Himself warned of this in Matthew chapter 24:

“Then they will hand you over for persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of My name. Then many will take offense, betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved” (verses 9-13)

Similarly, in Revelation 3:5, Jesus also warns:

“He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels”

Taking these words with what Jesus says in Matthew, asks the question, what of those who do not overcome?

These, and other passages are clear warnings, that a truly born-again person can indeed be lost, and end up in eternal punishment. Those who will argue against this because of their “theology”, must take these serious warnings as nothing more that empty words!

MATTHEW 12:32-"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

 

[SavedByGrace]

Matthew 12:32-home generators


MATTHEW 12:32-"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

How does this passage show that the OP is wrong?

Can you respond to the actual passages in the OP to show what I have written is not what the Bible actually says

 

[Van]

1 John 5:16 (NASB)
If anyone sees his brother sinning not leading to death, he shall ask and God will, for him, give life to those who commit sin not leading t o death. There is sin to death; I am not saying that he should ask about that.

The OP claims that brother must mean a person already given eternal life, rather than a relation, such as a professing member of his local church, but this view is precluded. For a sin does not cause "death" immediately, but the condemnation results in the loss of life when judgement occurs at physical death. Thus any sin will not lead to death for those already given life when they were made alive together with Christ spiritually during their physical life. However a "professing believer" would not already have eternal life, and thus can be forgiven. However, a professing believer not having eternal life cannot obtain that life if he or she is continues to commit the sin leading to death, which is rejection of Christ and His gospel.

 

[SavedByGrace]

1 John 5:16 (NASB)
If anyone sees his brother sinning not leading to death, he shall ask and God will, for him, give life to those who commit sin not leading t o death. There is sin to death; I am not saying that he should ask about that.

The OP claims that brother must mean a person already given eternal life, rather than a relation, such as a professing member of his local church, but this view is precluded. For a sin does not cause "death" immediately, but the condemnation results in the loss of life when judgement occurs at physical death. Thus any sin will not lead to death for those already given life when they were made alive together with Christ spiritually during their physical life. However a "professing believer" would not already have eternal life, and thus can be forgiven. However, a professing believer not having eternal life cannot obtain that life if he or she is continues to commit the sin leading to death, which is rejection of Christ and His gospel.

Read the CONTEXT of 1 John 5

 

[SavedByGrace]

1 John 5:16 (NASB)
If anyone sees his brother sinning not leading to death, he shall ask and God will, for him, give life to those who commit sin not leading t o death. There is sin to death; I am not saying that he should ask about that.

The OP claims that brother must mean a person already given eternal life, rather than a relation, such as a professing member of his local church, but this view is precluded. For a sin does not cause "death" immediately, but the condemnation results in the loss of life when judgement occurs at physical death. Thus any sin will not lead to death for those already given life when they were made alive together with Christ spiritually during their physical life. However a "professing believer" would not already have eternal life, and thus can be forgiven. However, a professing believer not having eternal life cannot obtain that life if he or she is continues to commit the sin leading to death, which is rejection of Christ and His gospel.

These verses in the CONTEXT are ONLY referring to SAVED BELIEVERS

1 John 5:13-15
[13]These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. Confidence and Compassion in Prayer
[14]Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
[15]And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

 

[SavedByGrace]

1 John 5:16 (NASB)
If anyone sees his brother sinning not leading to death, he shall ask and God will, for him, give life to those who commit sin not leading t o death. There is sin to death; I am not saying that he should ask about that.

The OP claims that brother must mean a person already given eternal life, rather than a relation, such as a professing member of his local church, but this view is precluded. For a sin does not cause "death" immediately, but the condemnation results in the loss of life when judgement occurs at physical death. Thus any sin will not lead to death for those already given life when they were made alive together with Christ spiritually during their physical life. However a "professing believer" would not already have eternal life, and thus can be forgiven. However, a professing believer not having eternal life cannot obtain that life if he or she is continues to commit the sin leading to death, which is rejection of Christ and His gospel.

Show which of these passages in 1 John which has BROTHER refers to someone who is not saved


1 John 2:9
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.

1 John 2:10
He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

1 John 2:11
But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. Their Spiritual State

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

1 John 3:12
not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.

1 John 3:15
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. The Outworking of Love

1 John 3:17
But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

1 John 4:20
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

1 John 4:21
And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

 

[John of Japan]

Context is everything!

Galatians 2: 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Peter, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

The sin unto death is very plain to me: any believer who interferes with God's work may find themselves on an early trip to Heaven. However, I do not believe that a saved person can lose his or her salvation, as the OP states. I do not agree that the context shows spiritual death as opposed to physical death. Furthermore, note that Hell is literal and physical, not just spiritual death, which is what a person endures prior to salvation, while still physically alive! (Eph. 2:1).

Ever hear the sermon by E. J. Daniels, "God's Three Deadline." This sin is one of his points, and I think he did a great job. But he also did not believe that a Christian can lose salvation.

My Dad once pastored in Tennessee, and five individuals decided to kick him out for no particular reason. (One of them actually said essentially that to my brother!) They conspired to bring in members for the vote who had not been there in a long time. (A church constitution should prevent that with a rule on when a membership lapses.) They succeeded, though my Dad was seeing God do great things, with many saved. However, after they ended their campaign, God judged the leaders one by one: death in a car accident, death by cancer, etc. My oldest sister can tell the whole story. I was just a kid, and did not go into the business meeting where they roasted my Dad. (The anecdote is not what proves the exegesis, just to be clear.)

 

[SavedByGrace]

The sin unto death is very plain to me: any believer who interferes with God's work may find themselves on an early trip to Heaven. However, I do not believe that a saved person can lose his or her salvation, as the OP states. I do not agree that the context shows spiritual death as opposed to physical death. Furthermore, note that Hell is literal and physical, not just spiritual death, which is what a person endures prior to salvation, while still physically alive! (Eph. 2:1).

Ever hear the sermon by E. J. Daniels, "God's Three Deadline." This sin is one of his points, and I think he did a great job. But he also did not believe that a Christian can lose salvation.

My Dad once pastored in Tennessee, and five individuals decided to kick him out for no particular reason. (One of them actually said essentially that to my brother!) They conspired to bring in members for the vote who had not been there in a long time. (A church constitution should prevent that with a rule on when a membership lapses.) They succeeded, though my Dad was seeing God do great things, with many saved. However, after they ended their campaign, God judged the leaders one by one: death in a car accident, death by cancer, etc. My oldest sister can tell the whole story. I was just a kid, and did not go into the business meeting where they roasted my Dad. (The anecdote is not what proves the exegesis, just to be clear.)

The CONTEXT of the passage in 1 John 5 disagrees with what you are saying. As do the other passages in the OP

Why does John say

Do not pray for those who commit sin that leads to death? If it is just physical

God bless

 

[SavedByGrace]

What does Jesus mean by

Matthew 24:13
But he who endures to the end shall be saved

Read the context

Matthew 24:8-14
[8]All these are the beginning of sorrows.
[9]“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
[10]And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
[11]Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
[12]And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
[13]But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
[14]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. The Great Tribulation

 

[John of Japan]

The CONTEXT of the passage in 1 John 5 disagrees with what you are saying. As do the other passages in the OP

Why does John say

Do not pray for those who commit sin that leads to death? If it is just physical

God bless

You didn't address my point on the meaning of spiritual and physical death.

 

[CJP69]

The sin unto death is very plain to me: any believer who interferes with God's work may find themselves on an early trip to Heaven. However, I do not believe that a saved person can lose his or her salvation, as the OP states. I do not agree that the context shows spiritual death as opposed to physical death. Furthermore, note that Hell is literal and physical, not just spiritual death, which is what a person endures prior to salvation, while still physically alive! (Eph. 2:1).

Ever hear the sermon by E. J. Daniels, "God's Three Deadline." This sin is one of his points, and I think he did a great job. But he also did not believe that a Christian can lose salvation.

My Dad once pastored in Tennessee, and five individuals decided to kick him out for no particular reason. (One of them actually said essentially that to my brother!) They conspired to bring in members for the vote who had not been there in a long time. (A church constitution should prevent that with a rule on when a membership lapses.) They succeeded, though my Dad was seeing God do great things, with many saved. However, after they ended their campaign, God judged the leaders one by one: death in a car accident, death by cancer, etc. My oldest sister can tell the whole story. I was just a kid, and did not go into the business meeting where they roasted my Dad. (The anecdote is not what proves the exegesis, just to be clear.)

There is no reason to read the passages and take them to mean anything other than what they appear to mean by simply reading them. They aren't hard to understand nor are they written in any sort of code or hidden language that only the initiated can understand or in any other way that requires in depth study of any sort. Just read them. They mean precisely what any home-schooled third grade child would understand them to mean if you read them to him.

The application of the passages used in OP, however, become problematic when you ignore the fact that they were not written to, for or about believers in this dispensation but rather they were written by those who agreed with Paul to minister only to the "circumcision" which are those who believed under the dispensation of law, while Paul the "uncircumcision" (i.e. Gentiles).

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.​

 

[SavedByGrace]

You didn't address my point on the meaning of spiritual and physical death.

spiritual death is when a person is cut off from God, and is therefore unsaved. Physical death is when all humans die in the flesh

I cannot see from the context in 1 John 5, that would show John meant it means physical death, caused by "sin that leads to death"

Maybe you can enlighten me on this from this passage?

Would you agree that this passage is addressed to those who are born-again believers, and not the unsaved?

 

[Van]

Read the CONTEXT of 1 John 5

Ditto

 

[Van]

These verses in the CONTEXT are ONLY referring to SAVED BELIEVERS

1 John 5:13-15
[13]These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. Confidence and Compassion in Prayer
[14]Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
[15]And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

Wrong, as they had not yet been given life!!!!!!

 

[CJP69]

spiritual death is when a person is cut off from God, and is therefore unsaved. Physical death is when all humans die in the flesh

I asked this question several times in another thread and no one would answer me, least of all the individual that I was directly asking. I was, therefore, compelled to reply when I say this direct answer to the question.

Given the fact that death is at the very center of the Christian faith, it's rather amazing the degree to which the average Christian is ignorant of the answer to the question, "What does it mean to die?" The above quoted answer comes as close as I've ever seen anyone get to the right answer on any Christian web forum where, ironically, ignorance of the scriptures seems to be at it's apex (i.e. not counting cults like the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Branch Davidians (yes they still exist), Yahweh Ben Yehweh, Moonies, etc.).

As indicated in the above quoted answer, there are two kinds of death, spiritual and physical. In both cases death is a spiritual separation. Stated simply...

Physical death happens when one's spirit is separated from their physical body. Spiritual death happens when one is separated from God.

Physical death is the death that all humans have an appointment with....

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:​

Spiritual death typically happens when one sins, (i.e. not before)...

Romans 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.​

Jesus died in BOTH ways! He did so voluntarily and while entirely innocent of any sin...

John 10:17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.​

First He was separated from the Father, whom He referred to as "my God" (John 20:17)

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?​

Shortly after Jesus' spirit left His physical body...

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.​

After this, Jesus did not ascend immediately to the Father but spent three days in the grave and, more specifically, in the place of the righteous dead which Jesus called "Paradise", also known as Abraham's Bosom....

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
​

After this, Jesus rose physically from the dead but cautioned Mary not to cling to Him because He hadn't yet ascended to the Father. That ascension was, however immanent....

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”
​

And so, in every way, Jesus our Lord has truly overcome death. He undid the curse of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Law (same thing) by nailing it to the cross (Galatians 3:13 & Colossians 2:14), thereby allowing God to not only deal with each individual on the basis of their own sin and not the sins of their ancestors (Ezekiel 18; Romans 5:19) but to justly forgive each of us of our sin when we humble ourselves before Him and ask for the free gift that He offers which is both forgiveness and reconciliation; rescue from the eternal separation from Him that our sins have earned by virtue of God the Son, the eternally existent Creator of all things, having suffered that fate in our stead.

 

[canadyjd]

I consider it to be a sin that carries with it the penalty of capital punishment. Certainly not the loss of eternal salvation.

Well, capital punishment is carried out by the state. Not sure if John is concerned about secular laws here. It is an interesting thought though.

peace to you

 

[Keith Mullins]

There is no reason to read the passages and take them to mean anything other than what they appear to mean by simply reading them. They aren't hard to understand nor are they written in any sort of code or hidden language that only the initiated can understand or in any other way that requires in depth study of any sort. Just read them. They mean precisely what any home-schooled third grade child would understand them to mean if you read them to him.

The application of the passages used in OP, however, become problematic when you ignore the fact that they were not written to, for or about believers in this dispensation but rather they were written by those who agreed with Paul to minister only to the "circumcision" which are those who believed under the dispensation of law, while Paul the "uncircumcision" (i.e. Gentiles).

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.​

You have made a couple of references to the fact that Paul was called to the Gentiles while Peter was to the Jews. Are you saying that there are 2 gospels? Do we only need Paul's epistles?

 

[Craigbythesea]

If I'm reading your post correctly, I see that what you are proposing in your understanding of the passage is what Wesley taught ( and many still teach to this day )...loss of salvation.

This is not what God tells His people, because the Lord Jesus will not lose any of those that were given to Him by the Father;


Not one:


"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." ( John 6:37-40 )


" Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.

I and [my] Father are one. ( John 10:25-30 ).

God says no one is more powerful than He is, and not one of His elect will be taken from Him.
Perhaps of you read it again with this in mind, the understanding of it will become clearer.

A careful reading of the Bible will reveal that there are numerous passages in the Bible that the Church unanimously believed for 1,500 taught the conditional security of the Christian—that is, conditional upon the Christian’s continued faith in Christ as opposed to the Christian’s apostasy from the Christian faith. A careful reading of the Bible will also reveal that there are several passages in the Bible that some Baptists claim teach eternal security, but which, when read in context, especially in the Greek New Testament from which they were translated, do not teach that doctrine at all! Indeed, some of these passages, like John 10:27-29, when compared with the parallel passage in Isa. 43:1-28, really teach that the Christian’s security is conditional upon his continued faithfulness.

John 10:27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.”

Isa. 43:10. “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
11. “I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
12. “It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And I am God.
13. “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”

Notice especially v. 13, “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”

But continue reading the rest of the chapter and what do you find,

22. “Yet you have not called on Me, O Jacob; But you have become weary of Me, O Israel.”

And finally,

28. “So I will pollute the princes of the sanctuary, And I will consign Jacob to the ban and Israel to revilement.”

The New Revised Standard Version translates v. 28,

28. Therefore I profaned the princes of the sanctuary,
I delivered Jacob to utter destruction,
and Israel to reviling.

Being delivered to utter destruction does not sound like eternal security to me!

And, so it is with all of the “proof texts” for the doctrine of eternal security. Should Baptists believe in a doctrine that was first conceived in the 16th century; or should they believe in the doctrine taught by Christ and His apostles, and the Early Church Fathers whom it pleased God to use to formalize the doctrine of the Trinity and to establish the New Testament Canon?

(All quotations from the Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995, unless otherwise noted)