Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Christ is not the only redemptor according to the Catholic faith. Mary is also a Redemptrix. She also shares the power to redeem people from sin, thereby removing the faith in Christ alone.
It absolutely amazes me that any Baptist living in the enlightened 20th-21ist century could possibly believe such grossly pitiful nonsense about the Roman Catholic Church.
The true teaching of the Roman Catholic Church on this issue was first taught in Latin and English speaking people with poor reading skills often have a difficult time understand Roman Catholic theology when it is expressed in English terminology.
The terms Co-redemtrix and Co-redeemer both use the Latin prefix cum that is found in many words in the English language meaning “with” in the sense of “accompaniment” or “associate with.” Compare the English word “co-worker.” Co-workers don’t do each other’s work; they work with each other.
When Roman Catholic theologians speak of Mary as the Co-redeemer they are speaking of Mary in her suffering at the cross. When Roman Catholic theologians speak of fellow Christians as co-redeemers they are speaking of our suffering with Christ and the part that we play in bringing the message of the gospel to others.
From the Roman Catholic point of view, co-redeemer does not suggest equality or partnership with, but dependence upon and subordination to the Redeemer who is Christ our Lord. Compare 1 Cor. 3:9,
1 Cor. 3:9. For we are God's co-workers; you are God's field, God's building. (NAB, 1971)
1 Cor. 3:9. For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building. (NASB, 1995)
1 Cor. 3:9. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. (KJV, 1769)
</font>[/QUOTE]Wrong on all counts Craig. Please explain these quotes from a Catholic bishop published in 1750:
This from Alphonsus de Liguori's "Glories of Mary": [He was a Catholic bishop in the 18th century and a canonized saint]. Published in 1750, it has been the most celebrated Marian devotional work in the Catholic Church with over 800 editions in many languages.
"With reason does an ancient writer call her [Mary] "the only hope of sinners", for by her help alone can we hope for the remission of sins. (pg 83) Isa. 43:8-11, Acts 4:12
”He fails and is lost who has not recourse to Mary.” (pg 94).
”Shall we scruple to ask her to save us, when the way of salvation is open to none otherwise than through Mary?” (pg 169)
"At the command of Mary all obey - even God." St. Bernardine [Catholic canonized saint] fears not to utter this sentence; meaning, indeed, to say that God grants the prayers of Mary as if they were commands...Since the Mother, then, should have the same power as the Son, rightly has Jesus, who is omnipotent, made Mary also omnipotent; though of course, it is always true that where the Son is omnipotent by nature, the Mother is only by grace. (Pg 180-82)
"There is no doubt, (St. Bernardine adds) that Jesus Christ is the only mediator of justice between men and God; [the bad, harsh one] but because men acknowledge and fear the divine Majesty, which is in him as God, for this reason it was necessary to assign us another advocate, [don't miss that] to whom we might have recourse with less fear and more confidence, [more confidence?!] and this advocate is Mary, than whom we cannot find one more powerful with his divine majesty, or one more merciful [Rom. 9:15] towards ourselves...A mediator, then was needed with the [mean] mediator himself." (Pg. 195-96)
"Be comforted then, O you who fear," will I [also] say with St. Thomas of Villanova [another lost Catholic saint]: "breath freely and take courage, O wretched sinners; this great Virgin, who is the mother of your God and judge, [again, the mean one] is also the advocate of the whole human race; fit for this office, for she can do what she wills with God; most wise, for she knows all the ways of appeasing him; universal, for she welcomes all, and refuses to defend no one." (Pg. 198). So much for Luke 13:2-5 and John 12:48.
St. Anselm, to increase our confidence, adds, that "when we have recourse to this divine Mother, only we may be sure of her protection, but that often we shall be heard more quickly, and be thus preserved, if we have recourse to Mary and call on her holy name [Acts 4:12; Rom. 10:13] , than we should if we call on the name of Jesus our Saviour," and the reason he gives for it is, "that to Jesus as a judge it belongs to punish; BUT MERCY ALONE BELONGS TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN as a patroness." (Pg. 136-37) Isa. 55:1-9; PS. 31, Rom. 9:15.
If God is angry with a sinner, and Mary takes him under her protection, she witholds the avenging arm of her Son, and saves him. (Pg. 124). Ex. 34:5-7.
I supplied the Scripture to refute his false worship of Mary.
Alfonsus de Liguori (1696-1787) was a principal proponent of the Marianist Movement, which glorifies Mary. He wrote a book entitled The Glories of Mary which is famous, influential and widely read. In this book, de Liguori says that Mary was given rulership over one half of the kingdom of God; Mary rules over the kingdom of mercy and Jesus rules over the kingdom of justice. De Liguori said that people should pray to Mary as a mediator and look to her as an object of trust for answered prayer. The book even says that there is no salvation outside of Mary. Some people suggest that these views are extreme and not representative of Catholic Church teaching. However, instead of silencing de Liguori as a heretic, the Catholic Church canonized him as a saint and declared him to be a “doctor of the Church” (a person whose teachings carry weight and authority).
Furthermore, his book is openly and officially promoted by the Catholic Church, and his teachings have influenced popes. [9]
Pope Benedict XV said of Mary that “[O]ne can justly say that with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind.” [10]
Pope Pius IX said, “Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin... so that if there is any hope and spiritual healing for us we receive it solely and uniquely from her.” [11]
[9] William Webster, The Church of Rome at the Bar of History , page 87.
[10] In the Encyclical Intersodalicia (1918). Quoted in Donald G. Bloesch, Essentials of Evangelical Theology , Vol. 1, page 196.
[11] In the Encyclical of February 2, 1849. Quoted in Donald G. Bloesch, Essentials of Evangelical Theology , Vol. 1, page 196.
